US Donates Patrol Boats to Pakistan’s Maritime Security Agency

[Thomas]

I am glad you understand now. You are an indebted country. A little diversification by the Chinese of it US treasury portfolio can push the US economy and US dollar into a death spiral. If the economy collapses so will be the American ability to project power and control resources and trade. Lucky for the Americans, the Chinese are smart they don't want to destabilise things as it is against their self interest but there should be no doubt that the US has never been as vulnerable as it is today.

believe me if the U.S. economy goes into a death spiral. So will China's and the rest of the world.

 

[Jazzman]

"they don't want to destabilise things as it is against their self interest..."

It's not a wish by the Chinese. They CAN'T destabilize things. If I owe you a little, that's a problem for me. If I owe you a lot, that's a problem for you.

"A little diversification by the Chinese of it US treasury portfolio can push the US economy and US dollar into a death spiral."

Let me know when our notes aren't worth purchasing. That'll define high risk to ROI. Until then you're anti-American desires will be on hold for, oh...say about another fifty-one hundred years.

That's presuming Chinese growth at an accelerated rate and it remains accelerating. Most here presume American stagnancy or diminishment. That's an odd bet to take although one where many project their desires instead of facts.

We've got issues. Most forget that China has bigger issues but their infrastructure, energy needs, population depletion, environmental damage, water depletion, absence of internal markets and more remain conspicuously and notably excluded by the fan-boys here.

Finally, check immigration patterns and advise me when Americans immigrate to that socialist paradise on the other side of the big lake. Or anybody else for that matter.

"I am glad you understand now."

Oh, I understand real well. Better than you.

Thanks.

The American economy is a house of cards. It was proven to be so in September 2008. The markets became totally long-jammed and confidence was gone. Imminent collapse of the US and global economic structure was a real possibility. If at that time the international holders had started dumping (China was just a case in point so don't get fixated by it) US paper, the economy could have gone into an abyss with no possibility of a recovery. It did get lucky and was able to get temporary relief by printing money but it did not learn any lessons and the fundamental issues remain unaddressed. It might not be so lucky the next time. Its the credit based consumption which will destroy America both at an individual level and the national level. To top it off, it is the intellectual dishonesty which permeates the society and blinds it from reality. This intllectual dishonesty is reflected in yours and Soloman 2's posts on this forum which prompted me to write what I did. BTW Immigration patterns are a lagging indicators and I never compared China with the US or said that it was better than the US but the reality is that it does hold US paper equivalent to almost 10% of US's GDP. So how vulnerable is US right now? Go figure it out.

 

[Jazzman]

believe me if the U.S. economy goes into a death spiral. So will China's and the rest of the world.

No doubt about it and that is why the Chinese are not dumping US paper in hurry but slowly and surely they will. US is like a drug addict and China and other countries lending to China are like drug pushers. Why would they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs for them. But like any drug addict, it will ultimately loose its ability to pay for the fix but by then it will be too late.

 

[Thomas]

I never compared China with the US or said that it was better than the US but the reality is that it does hold US paper equivalent to almost 10% of US's GDP. So how vulnerable is US right now? Go figure it out.

well lets see the U.S. GDP is around 13.8 trillion dollars. So you are saying China holds 1.38 trillion in U.S. debt? That would mean that with China's GDP which is 4.33 trillion. The amount of U.S. debt that China holds = close to 30% of it's GDP. Doesn't sound to me like China is sitting in as much of a power position as you would like to think.

Not only that but think of all China's investments in the rest of the world. Do you think a lot of those investments won't go south if the U.S. financial system collapses?

It is in China's best interests to not rock the world financial boat. By playing games with U.S. debt and they know it. Did you know that the Chinese Government continues to buy up U.S. debt?

 

[MastanKhan]

Jazzman,

I hope you have vented out your feelings---this is an argument in futility about americas credit economy.

Wait and see---china is ready to crash as well---where do you think the chinese invested their moneys---you guessed it!!!---In real estate as well---their bubble may blow as well.

Pakistanis need not be too sarcastic at the U S---and talk big about china---bet on your own horse and not the neighbours---.

And USA---thanks for those boats---we are greatful---as for the price---we have already paid it---.

 

[S-2]

"So how vulnerable is US right now? Go figure it out."

Already have. Not very.

I don't see the threat as I don't anticipate zero growth to our GDP. Nor do I anticipate public spending consistent with the last year and one-half. I do anticipate a net growth of our overall debt as a percentage of GDP but I also anticipate its decline.

Best of all, I don't anticipate either the Chinese nor the Japanese calling that debt. Both nations rely heavily on disproportionate trade balances with America to sustain their growth-China in particular. I doubt they'd put a gun to their head and pull the trigger.

"This intllectual dishonesty is reflected in yours and Soloman 2's posts on this forum which prompted me to write what I did."

I see. So you pursue Solomon2 and myself in accordance with a higher calling, do you? You might choose to do so in a venue other than this thread. You've taxed my patience and I've no debt to you that requires tolerating hijacking a thread to accomodate your personal vendetta.

We'll be finished here unless you care to discuss the implications of donated patrol boats to Pakistan's maritime security.

Thanks.

 

[fatman17]

Go sell off the spare parts and embezzle the maintenance and operations funds, then next time Pakistan needs ships it can jolly well build 'em by itself 'cause Uncle Sam won't give Pakistan any!

you've made your point - cut us some slack!

 

[fatman17]

You forget the 6 upgraded Oliver Hazard Perry Class Guided Missile Frigates. Which Pakistan starts to take possession of this August.

All six ships including the upgrade are free.

just one slight correction - its 3 OHPs but we pay for the 'upgrades' just like the F-16s upgrade and the P-3C upgrades

but many thanks!

 

[FireFighter]

There's no such thing as free lunch.

We might end up spending more money on maintenance and repair parts that we would have to order from the US.

I think Pak should auction these patrol boats off to the best bidder and buy Chinese patrol boats instead due to low maintenance and repair.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Larger patrol boats can be manufactured within the country. So, if we wish to make such FPBs, we can do so.

My guess is, the US had enough of these boats, and were gonna induct replacements, so they thought better to give it as US viewed donation and try to make a good PR stunt out of it.

 

[TaimiKhan]

So if we can make these below ships at KS&EW, what is the fuss all about.

F A S T A T T A C K C R A F T
Fast Attack Craft [ Missile ]

L A R K A N A C L A S S P A T R O L B O A T
Larkana Class Patrol Boat

J A L A L A T C L A S S M I S S I L E B O A T
Jalalat Class Missile Boat

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

would be interesting to cross compare these with Turkish MRTP-33 fast attack boats we inducted back in 07/08

 

[fatman17]

would be interesting to cross compare these with Turkish MRTP-33 fast attack boats we inducted back in 07/08

different types!

 

[Jazzman]

"So how vulnerable is US right now? Go figure it out."

Already have. Not very.

I don't see the threat as I don't anticipate zero growth to our GDP. Nor do I anticipate public spending consistent with the last year and one-half. I do anticipate a net growth of our overall debt as a percentage of GDP but I also anticipate its decline.

Best of all, I don't anticipate either the Chinese nor the Japanese calling that debt. Both nations rely heavily on disproportionate trade balances with America to sustain their growth-China in particular. I doubt they'd put a gun to their head and pull the trigger.

"This intllectual dishonesty is reflected in yours and Soloman 2's posts on this forum which prompted me to write what I did."

I see. So you pursue Solomon2 and myself in accordance with a higher calling, do you? You might choose to do so in a venue other than this thread. You've taxed my patience and I've no debt to you that requires tolerating hijacking a thread to accomodate your personal vendetta.

We'll be finished here unless you care to discuss the implications of donated patrol boats to Pakistan's maritime security.

Thanks.

Obviously the experts don't share your enthusiasm. But beside the point if you and your buddies keep your American hubris and arrogance in the local bar (i.e. if you are allowed to get in) rather than a Pakistani forum we will not be getting in such arguments. To cut it short, Pakistan's relationship with the US is based on mutual mistrust. US can influence elements in Pakistan but it cannot control it. US needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs the US. We have survived for decades without your aid or help and we will do it again but you cannot survive in or get out of Afghanistan without our help. Your leadership, specially the military realises this. You guys obviosly don't. If you want intelligent exchange on this board leave your arrogance somewhere else. I don't have a beef with Americans as a whole but I do have issues with neocons and bible bashers and you seem like one of them who have done more damage to their own country than its enemies. I might be wrong, you might be just one of those Indians pretending to be white American guys on the net.

 

[Solomon2]

It isn't hubris. I'm annoyed. Only a little bit of that annoyance is directed towards Pakistanis.

Save for the engine, perhaps, I would guess that Pakistan is perfectly capable of building such boats by itself. So why are we giving them away? Is it just a make-work program for U.S. manufacturer during a recession? Something tacked on to a bill by a congressman looking to pay back a favor?

It's too late to take them back, so I'm going to ask my congressman and senator to monitor closely what happens so he might have an excuse to block such a move in the future.