US Congress stalls F-16 sale to Pakistan

[Dalit]

My friend dont be angry there is no,DSCA notification yet in congress .this news been put by single source which was Hinduistan times how congress will stall a process which not started yet .its usual Hindu propaganda full with jelousey nothing more a little hint order will be far greater than just 8 F 16 s for LCM to keep open assembley lines they need substential order and it gonna come from forgien source beacuse US airforce or other NATO countries switch to F35 .planes will be delivered from 2 to 3 yrs .So dont worry and angry we wil get F16 s new one and few old ones in good numbers from States .

That is not even the point bro. Time has come to move on and say farewell to F-16s. It might be normal for the Americans to constantly doubt and humiliate countries they term "allies" in their congress. We are used to that and according to some here we shouldn't even question the American way of dealing.

More importantly, we need to grow a spine and opt for something else now. The money we are going to dole out of our own pockets would be more wisely spent on something more reliable and frankly something better. Nothing to be angry about. It is more about making a logical and sane choice instead of throwing away taxpayers money.

 

[Quwa]

they will want to "engage" using laser guided bombs.

Only if you take the Kim Jong Un way. Unfortunately, I don't have much trust in the abilities of our politicians and diplomats to intellectually convince the international community and even influential people within the U.S of a narrative that lets Pakistan be. When trying to maintain neutrality and independence, one needs to come off as a responsible citizen looking out for their own interests and offering a sober second thought to the aggression of bigger powers (e.g. Sweden). If left up to Pakistanis, it'd be World War 3.

 

[Dalit]

1) This isn't any propaganda. The Congress did stop this and sent notice of sort of show cause to the Obama administration. Now the administration and some lobby from Pakistan can push it through. Nothing out of the ordinary.

3) You and other people don't get it. You guys have very narrow mentality. Really? 8 or 24 or 32 F-16's worth a few billion can change the American law makers sentiment? What world do you live in? Do you have any idea how many HUNDREDS of billions the US would make, if it opened up the sale of F-22 to its allies like Japan, the UK, Australia, etc???? Did we do that? HELL NO!!!! So what's a big deal for 20-40 F-16's? NONE, ZERO, ZILCH!!

If these F-16's are ever issued, these will be due to the relationship with Pakistan. Not the money. If you think "money" or a "few jobs" matter to the US government when it comes to her interests and strategy.....you are simply acting like a fool. The same F-16's can be purchased by a dozen other countries if the US really wanted to do it outside of Pakistan and REALLY needed a few jobs to remain working. You guys write so much without logic that it becomes a headache to even read the posts!

Save the speech. We aren't toddlers here. We all know what sort of a relationship Pakistan and the US have if it can be called that at all. Don't even get me started on describing this "relationship".

Having said that, we honestly don't require American made F-16s. These are being shoved down Pakistan's throat as usual. These offers usually come at a time when Pakistan has no need for them.

The Obama administration is preparing to sell eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan in an attempt to bolster the two countries' relationship.

US to sell eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan: report - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Like I said, Pakistan should pursue the better options it has at its disposal. PAF needs to start investing in its future. The F-16s aren't the future anymore.

Right after the birds arrive people would be wooing over the planes and shinny cockpit

Pakistan have immediately sent their ambassador , and he will be buying the ticket for the 1.3 Billion power ball draw happening in next few days

You are mistaken about that. Only those people would champion the F-16s who actually think that the Pakistan Air Force cannot survive without them. That is a very wrong notion to have. It has been argued and proven that the PAF isn't living in the nineties era anymore. Today, we have our very own JF-17 program in full swing. Mind you, a JF-17 that would match and even outperform certain F-16 roles and specs and I'm not kidding. Additionally, we can procure other excellent capabilities from a reliable and trustworthy ally China. Not to mention how Russia has recently made overtures with Pakistan by offering the Su-35. It is very true that PAF today has better options available. Time has come to explore other alternatives.

The Americans are only offering the F-16s because they are seeking to have clout over Pakistan. Nothing more nothing less. Essentially, they are bribing Pakistan for its loyalty and cooperation in various challenges and problems they face. As for Pakistan, it has no immediate use for 8, 16, 32 or more F-16s and we know it too. The Americans are dangling a carrot. A carrot we really don't require.

 

[batmannow]

you got that right. and this is why the US Government plans to keep pushing it until the hold is released.

but like I said earlier, all we need to do is do few favours to KSA and the opposing US Senators will themselves propose the deal.

Indians just cant match the power of KSA.. when their king died Obama who was visiting India .. had to dash to Ryadh to pay his respects along the entire US political elite from both parties.

this all depends on how much we need these planes and if we should use Saudi influence or not. dont forget, we already had the visit of Saudi Crown prince he specially visited GHQ.


prime example of half-arsed copy pasting.

Pakistan is not going to send its troops to KSA in any form , its what our GHQs adopted position but at the same time if KSA be threatened by any one , we can send our missile to say hi ?
Our military establishment has played a beautifull game with idiots in pentagon this time ?
As they heard the news of our interests in SU*35 s & J-31s these idiots once again tried to give us the same old F*16s lollypop to halt our growing interests in Russian & Chinese newly built war machines .
Our leadership didn't rejected this lollypop cause they knew well , it all will be transformed into some dictation soon ?
We waited , till they come up with their best move ?
Stalling the deal ?
& now after few weeks , after conforming the dam cancelation , we are good to go see , our newly found friends In Russia ,

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

To be perfectly honest I am not sure , why there is a thread about this , F16 have always come to Pakistan after congressional debate , which really wastes American taxpayer's money

I mean the debate about issue
because since the 80's we received F16 as part of global effort to maintain regional balance

Senate Leader:
"For the 4015th time , after debate of 7 weeks costing American tax payers
40 Million dollars, we come to decision that yes the 8-16 F16 pose no risk to unbalance the region and tomorrow we will discuss for 7 days if water is good for people of America"

And Nawaz sharif had Qeema wala paratha with Obama , and confirmed the F16 deal long time ago

 

[Dalit]

To be perfectly honest I am not sure , why there is a thread about this , F16 have always come to Pakistan after congressional debate , which really wastes American taxpayer's money

I mean the debate about issue
because since the 80's we received F16 as part of global effort to maintain regional balance

Senate Leader:
"For the 4015th time , after debate of 7 weeks costing American tax payers
40 Million dollars, we come to decision that yes the 8-16 F16 pose no risk to unbalance the region and tomorrow we will discuss for 7 days if water is good for people of America"

And Nawaz sharif had Qeema wala paratha with Obama , and confirmed the F16 deal long time ago

They are not wasting money. They are sending a political message to Pakistan. They are being transparent to their people. These F-16s come with strings attached. Meaning, tow the Indian line and ditch China. Obey our commands at all times. The Americans always calculate the return of investment.

 

[Super Falcon]

H

US Congress ‘stalls’ F-16 sale to Pakistan

The Obama administration’s move to sell Pakistan eight new F-16s has been “stalled” by US Congress. (File Photo)

The Obama administration’s move to sell Pakistan eight new F-16s has been “stalled” by US Congress, with lawmakers raising questions about the end use of the combat aircraft, and the relationship itself.

Several requests for clarification and information were made by members of the House of Representatives, effectively “stalling” the process, said a congressional source.

At least one member of the Senate, a Democrat, has put a “hold” on the sale, a legislative process of a request to delay floor action on a measure, a bill, nomination or sale.

In effect, the sale has been “stalled”, multiple congressional sources confirmed. They, however, clarified at the same time it does not mean the move is dead or it has been “cancelled”.

Read| Pakistan in negotiations with US to buy F-16 fighter jets: Air chief

Indians, who are closely following the proposal, preferred the word “disrupted”, which, once again, doesn’t mean it’s been cancelled. “Let’s see where it goes now,” an official said.

The move comes at a time when the US State Department has said it expects Pakistan to act against the perpetrators of the Pathankot attack without distinguishing between “good” and “bad” militants.

The Obama administration “informally” notified Congress of its proposal of a “foreign military sale” – of the jets – during Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s visit to Washington last October.

It followed up with a formal notification of “foreign military financing” to fund the sale in early December. The next, and final, stage would have been a formal notification.

But that has been stalled by lawmakers’ requests — their number couldn’t be ascertained — for clarifications or more information and the hold put by a senator.

There are several issues worrying lawmakers. One is the end use of the jets. Several members raised that at a hearing of the House foreign affairs committee last December. They wanted to know if the F-16s could, and would, be used against India.

Richard Olson, the US State Department official who deposed before the panel, had said the fighters had been used by the Pakistan Army for precision attacks in anti-terror operations.

Lawmakers seemed troubled also by the overall signal the sale would send. “I’m concerned about the messages we’re sending when we continue to provide Pakistan security assistance despite Pakistan’s ongoing relationships with the Haqqani Network and LeT,” Eliot Engel, ranking member of the committee, had said.

Chairman Ed Royce used the phrase “Pakistan’s double-dealing” to question the continued flow of cash and arms — as he put it — despite Pakistan’s inadequate efforts against terrorism.

From here, there are two ways the proposed sale could proceed, sources said. One, the administration answers all the clarifications sought, and lawmakers let it go through.

Two, the lawmakers refuse to allow the use of “foreign military financing”, forcing the administration to look for alternative funding if it still wants to go ahead with the deal.

US Congress ‘stalls’ F-16 sale to Pakistan | world | Hindustan Times

Hope congress dont sell it to pak it is blessing and disguise

PAF not learning they will block whatever whenever they want when you hvd JF 17 equlivant of F 16 and J 10 why you want to go one day you have to buy other fighter jet F 16 has no future PAF has no capability in its entire inventory with fightef jet who can Panetrate Enemy Airdefence system to stop enemies jets on ground remember 65 war pathankot today PAF cant do it with it our own airspace will be weakened becoz IAF jets will come from all directions and in numbers

Most Airforces keep one class of Air superiority jet so when they need they go inside enemy covered air defence and destroy enemy radars airbases

PAF is nuts

Oh for the love of God, leave the fucking F16s. The world does not end with it. Have some shame PAF and stop embarrassing the nation just because you guys have some fetish with the damn US hardware

Fully agreed sir seems like their minds are stuck in 1983 era


I would suggest pak govt and army coas streep all these stupid from PAF and PN and bring young blood with new ideas and innovation for the forces

They have no logivmc when they signed 10 billion JF 17 project by saying we want to become self sufficient due to sanction on F 16 now Thunder is rulling the skies why buy same crap

SU 35 can do wonders for PAF both in air to air air to sea war

Against IAF rafale SU 35 is great match and its is affordible

When countries like indonesia buy SU 30 why cabt we

Whole nation against the F 16 sell time to move forward

PAF is full of stupids

 

[Mirza Jatt]

A day before Indian media published the news but Pakistanis here rubbished it saying it was from Indian media.

well it fell flat on the face of those posters who rejected it.. because they only trust their own wikileaks

On topic : This is not the first time that a defence deal has been disrupted between US and Pakistan.. I guess its just a little dramebazi.. the deal will come through after sometime for sure.

 

[The Eagle]

This is called need of diplomacy. Since a long time we all have been discussing here for many things so a few things came across my mind and I thought to share with you all.

We are discussing different things here.


1. Our new F-16s deal.
2. The way US works with every deal or their in-house practice.

Few lines as follows for above points.

1. US offered these new 8 F-16s to Pakistan while keeping in view the relations between Pakistan and USA. Pakistan said yes to the offer of birds as addition of goodies is not a bad thing after all but this time, what matters is diplomacy and let have more of these so also this deal is going to bolster the relations between these countries (as many said as well).


2. I am not fully aware that what is US SOP for in house work but it could be like I am going to discuss. The F-16s were offered by USA then Pakistan said yes and the homework as well as paper work started there. Next step, it comes to the Congress. The congress said Hey! We are still here and not worthless because we have the right to discuss or approve such deals. So, the congress which has been enjoying the money of Indian lobby, showing the worth to their people as well as to Indian friends and after all they are opposition to Obama, started to gain whatever they could. Then next step of deal will be like in house talks and that would be a discussion over these birds whether to sell to Pakistan or not and Obama administration and defence lobby will participate beside congress members and then there will be results. Now it comes to the hopes so it is going to be yes indeed as defence lobby has much influence after all but in the end who knows.

a) Desperate need of F-16s.
b) What if the deal is cancelled, or why should go on.

Discussion a) & b):

a) As it has been discussed to full depth that this is indeed not 90s so Pakistan is not like sitting duck without these birds anymore but as I stated above addition of goodies is never a bad thing so let the birds come if can be but not in the fashion as it has been happening in the past like lot of strings attached and at some point costing us valued lives sacrificed for US cause. Though this is another long debate but Pakistan has been paying like this and we all are well aware but we had no choice either I must say. There was also another big element of our politician’s stance towards US which always remains as “at your service Sir” and incompetence. The things are changing as well as geopolitics and the leadership has learnt indeed a lot of from past so also our military leadership is playing the best role ever though we have missed many of milestone previously but it is like later than never. The addition of these new birds will only cost us payment for these 16s but would save a lot of other things like we have operating these birds since long and well aware of it as well. These new additions could help us to fill gap as Pakistan is not going to war by tomorrow so also will help to keep the clock ticking till new procurement rather biting nails.

b) If the deal did not work or something went as not desired, hopefully wouldn’t affect that much. While keeping in view the scenario, if the anti-Pakistan lobby succeeded this time then there will be more hurdles in near future. As being predictive about more hurdles, not to forget the current situation of region and US presence, there will be none. US need much favor while looking at Afghanistan alone. As we all become aware that entering India into Afghanistan doesn’t served the US purpose well but become more headaches. Realizing the need of Pakistan, US is not going to cut the ties like this and it wouldn’t be happening beside the full pressure of congress and so far congress is fully aware as well or will be. The current 4 nation’s talks regarding peace in Afghanistan, being hosted by Pakistan, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and USA are indicating the change in diplomacy level and foreign relations. Despite many other reasons, while looking at only above said development, it is more favored to think like the deal wouldn’t stop. So worst come worst, even if it happened so I am pretty sure that US wouldn’t cut loose Pakistan like this but there will be something more to offer almost head par to 16s thing. It is also must be said here that Pakistan has achieved a lot in current war against terrorism and it is widely acknowledged by US as well on many forums. Furthermore, we have seen US representatives saying that Pakistan is doing whatever it can to pin down such terrorist. We have heard ACM saying that Pakistan is looking East & West both, so if something went wrong, it wouldn’t be like PAF will procure the new platform overnight but this NO will boost the procurement process ever than before.


i) Our love for F-16s and objections
ii) The past of US-Pakistan dealing and strings

As follows i) & ii):

i) Indeed F-16s have become a symbol for us as this bird has served well and still serving. Despite all that love, it has been also said that F-16s always comes with strings attached. US would never want her technology be copied in a blink. One of the far most reasons was that it couldn’t be used against India, our biggest rival so why we are using F-16s (as per many of us) but I must say doctrine always remained defensive so F-16s remained always worthy for security of Pakistan rather procured to go out to attack. Keeping it in inventory helped stop many misadventures in advance. If these birds were useless like said above then is also pertinent to mention that why would any force will go to opt in such numbers as well as spend the huge cache of amount. So as per my opinion, strings attached means no excess to the machine until & unless the owner himself or designated one comes. It is pertinent to mention here that Pakistan can use these machines for the security in whatever means. I remember back there, when Pakistan was doing N test, we were at high alert and there was possibility for Israeli’s coming in via India and Pakistan scrambled the F-16s so thought came across mind that if these birds were useless against our usual threats then how come we could have scrambled 16s even against the one best ally of US herself.


ii) It has been very well noticed in the past that Pakistan-USA relations never been so smooth. US always has her observations while talking about trust and on other hand we have never trusted them fully as well due to the strong lobbies walking in corridors of white house and pentagon freely. The past of US-Pakistan dealings and strings have been witnessed by all of us. Indeed it has been a dilemma for Pakistan due to the lack of leadership previously and unfortunately if there was one who could do the job, never had time to do so and most of the times our politicians were like enjoying the life being office bearers rather showed or proved their worth. Our leadership was never that capable to deal things up to the level where we could have demanded things but it has been always like a dumb has been representing us. The most incompetence and greedy habit of our leadership in past has brought Pakistan to the point that we lost very valued years where we could have done much more or would have been standing far ahead of today. Before criticizing the US for not favoring us, it is also need to be considered at our end that our leadership never been able to present the best of our needs in past but always remained to develop personal relations and use every resource for their own sake.

The want of higher tier is totally different thing and is indeed needed to be opted by PAF for future.

After a long time, things are getting better in favor of Pakistan and I am sure we will not miss any opportunity to grow more rather being stupidly very mean. Investment is coming in. We should act smart ever than before. It is our duty to not just object any wrong doing but to come with the best for our country. It is always us or our leadership that causes the damage. How could someone impose their orders until & unless the second party agrees to do so? The US and west tried to do things what works in their country so it is also for them to realize that every country or region has its own way of dealing things and same goes to us as well. We should be dealing and never treat the situation as last and final. There are other ways so we should never act for no chance again or push the things to a dead end. The future is bright here and things are getting aligned so we may avoid any encounter which may cause us loss. I will say again the best thing can be DIPLOMACY as that’s how the world works so we should improve our tactics as well.

Whatever stated above are my personal observations and opinions. I may have lost at some points but I merely tried to mention minimum but presenting the whole story. I did not mean to hurt anyone feelings here.


Pakistan Zindabad

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think US has always has its own processes, bottom line is we are waiting for the 8-18 F16 Block E

 

[Dalit]

I think US has always has its own processes, bottom line is we are waiting for the 8-18 F16 Block E

The question is at what cost... Even if we are paying for them, it doesn't unfortunately mean that we can use them on our own terms.

Some people argue that the defensive nature of the F-16s serve us well. I beg to differ. We need the complete package which means both defensive and offensive. We cannot pay billions of dollars for something we are going to use halfheartedly.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

18 Lovely planes

 

[alimobin memon]

There should be extra radio button for "Don't care"

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Just 150-160 Missiles carrying capacity for 18 jets no biggie

Just little ole F16 , nothing to fear

 

[batmannow]

Just 150-160 Missiles carrying capacity for 18 jets no biggie

Just little ole F16 , nothing to fear

sorry , but it's not the last of the latest fighter jets ever produced in this world , & if we compare it with other , latest jets then itS way behind ?
time to move on instead being stupid & stuck in the past ?

The question is at what cost... Even if we are paying for them, it doesn't unfortunately mean that we can use them on our own terms.

Some people argue that the defensive nature of the F-16s serve us well. I beg to differ. We need the complete package which means both defensive and offensive. We cannot pay billions of dollars for something we are going to use halfheartedly.

or not up to its full potential ?