US blocks more Chinese tech firms on ‘national security’ concerns

[Zibago]

US blocks more Chinese tech firms on ‘national security’ concerns
AFP On Jun 22, 2019

WASHINGTON: The US Commerce Department blacklisted five Chinese tech entities Friday in a new move against Beijing’s supercomputing industry likely to raise tensions ahead of a meeting between President Trump and Xi Jinping next week.

The notice targets Sugon — a prominent Chinese supercomputer manufacturer — along with three of its microchip subsidiaries and a computing institute owned by the People’s Liberation Army.

All of the entities will be effectively barred from obtaining US technology after the government determined they were “acting contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States.”


Trade tensions between the world’s top two economies have spilled over into the tech sector in recent months, with Trump’s administration moving to essentially ban Chinese tech firm Huawei from the huge US market on security grounds.

In May, it added Huawei to an “entity list” of companies barred from receiving US-made components without permission from Washington, though the company was granted a 90-day reprieve.

Facebook and Google have since both announced they will move to cut off Huawei in order to comply with the US sanctions, further isolating the Chinese tech giant.

Beijing has responded with threats to release its own blacklist of “unreliable” foreign companies and individuals that appears aimed at pressuring foreign companies to maintain commercial relations with Huawei.

Earlier this month, Beijing summoned executives from American firms Dell and Microsoft and South Korea’s Samsung, among others, to warn them that any moves to ramp down their businesses in China may lead to retaliation, The New York Times reported.

Trump and his Chinese counterpart Xi are set to meet next week on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Japan.
https://arynews.tv/en/us-block-more-china-firms/

 

[war&peace]

Trump is using the last card USA has been left with to have a leverage over China. But China has reached that critical mass where it has the ability to develop everything domestically with no or some help from others. China develops her own processors and in fact the top Chinese supercomputers are powered by indigenously developed chips. However, China needs to make them more efficient in terms of size and energy consumption and TDP to make them viable for desktop PCs and small business machines. These supercomputers can be used towards this end.

 

[xyxmt]

US is scared, very scared

 

[Han Patriot]

Trump is using the last card USA had been left with to have a leverage over China. But China has reached that critical mass where it has the ability to develop everything domestically with no or some help from others. China develops her own processors and in fact the top Chinese supercomputers are powered by indigenously developed chips. However, China needs to make them more efficient in terms of size and energy consumption and TDP to make them viable for desktop PCs and small business machines. These supercomputers can be used towards this end.

The thing is we can't legally build them. We can build Intel/AMD copies without paying any licensing fees, but our companies would be barred from selling them in Europe, etc. The only thing we cannot copy nor develop fully are aircraft engines and chip fabricating machines/process tech. We can build both but is not yet reaching international standards.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

The thing is we can't legally build them. We can build Intel/AMD copies without paying any licensing fees, but our companies would be barred from selling them in Europe, etc. The only thing we cannot copy nor develop fully are aircraft engines and chip fabricating machines/process tech. We can build both but is not yet reaching international standards.

Totally incorrect. You also can't build a host of other stuff. No need to overestimate yourself.

 

[Han Patriot]

Totally incorrect. You also can't build a host of other stuff. No need to overestimate yourself.

Buss we might not be able to make 7nm chips but 14nm legacy AMD or Intel chips is not an issue bhai. Might not be state of the art, but who needs it to be state of the art for normal consumption, it's only because consumers choose to have the fastest chip for cellphones, desktop PC already reached a saturation point.

 

[Pandora]

China has the required technological base and adequate chip manufacturing capability. This might be just the kick they need to advance their indigenous solution rather than looking towards west. China has capital, resources and base infrastructure to further their indigenous solutions. In this day and age with a massive economy it wouldnt take more than few years to catch up with likes of AMD and Intel. All the best wishes to china and middle finger for US. I was thinking of buying Iphone but now i am totally going for huawei .

 

[Sergi]

China has the required technological base and adequate chip manufacturing capability. This might be just the kick they need to advance their indigenous solution rather than looking towards west. China has capital, resources and base infrastructure to further their indigenous solutions. In this day and age with a massive economy it wouldnt take more than few years to catch up with likes of AMD and Intel. All the best wishes to china and middle finger for US. I was thinking of buying Iphone but now i am totally going for huawei .

Doing everything in-house is possible but a costly affair!!! Even America don’t do it.
And point of the sanctions is to make it costly affair. US can’t stop China but they will try to make production costlier and reduce the access to consumers.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Buss we might not be able to make 7nm chips but 14nm legacy AMD or Intel chips is not an issue bhai. Might not be state of the art, but who needs it to be state of the art for normal consumption, it's only because consumers choose to have the fastest chip for cellphones, desktop PC already reached a saturation point.

You cannot even make 14 nm chips.

SMIC claims that it has developed 14 nm process technology, but isn't in mass production yet.

Let's assume that all of SMIC's claims are right, even then SMIC's claims are only about the process.

There are multiple things required by SMIC for the process.

It needs metrology equipment that NO Chinese company makes, and has to be imported from KLA Tencor.

It requires other process equipment that AMEC and other companies don't make.

Some of the equipment that AMEC does make is unreliable.

And even in the equipment that AMEC does make, there are many many foreign components like lithography lenses etc.

After that comes the material, almost all of which comes from foreign companies.

Then the design of the chip.

China has no alternative to Nvidia.

China has no alternative to Intel's CPUs.

China has no alternative to ARM.

Even the software that is used for designing the chips, the EDA, China has no homegrown company.

Buss we might not be able to make 7nm chips but 14nm legacy AMD or Intel chips is not an issue bhai. Might not be state of the art, but who needs it to be state of the art for normal consumption, it's only because consumers choose to have the fastest chip for cellphones, desktop PC already reached a saturation point.

Also if you were actually capable of making 14 nm chips, the US ban on Fujian Jinhua wouldn't have been so fatal for Jinhua. Most DRAM chips are actually made at even higher dimension nodes.

 

[aziqbal]

I feel sorry for the US

unfortunately they are going to have to face China

and the ones who are most afraid of China are the ones who have committed crimes against China when China was weak in the past

China strongest asset is trade, you cannot fight China at which its strong and completely dominates

 

[TheTruth]

You cannot even make 14 nm chips.

SMIC claims that it has developed 14 nm process technology, but isn't in mass production yet.

Let's assume that all of SMIC's claims are right, even then SMIC's claims are only about the process.


Also if you were actually capable of making 14 nm chips, the US ban on Fujian Jinhua wouldn't have been so fatal for Jinhua. Most DRAM chips are actually made at even higher dimension nodes.

So pathetic. China didn't scale those ops because they were just buying US chips which were cheaper due to production scale. They have the cash to scale their operations up, and they will.

Meanwhile if the US acts like a little bitch, China can simply confiscate trillions in US property in China and Hong Kong. Then refuse to ship anything that bears profits for Americans. You can watch the Dow drop by 25% a night.

 

[Dalit]

You cannot even make 14 nm chips.

SMIC claims that it has developed 14 nm process technology, but isn't in mass production yet.

Let's assume that all of SMIC's claims are right, even then SMIC's claims are only about the process.

There are multiple things required by SMIC for the process.

It needs metrology equipment that NO Chinese company makes, and has to be imported from KLA Tencor.

It requires other process equipment that AMEC and other companies don't make.

Some of the equipment that AMEC does make is unreliable.

And even in the equipment that AMEC does make, there are many many foreign components like lithography lenses etc.

After that comes the material, almost all of which comes from foreign companies.

Then the design of the chip.

China has no alternative to Nvidia.

China has no alternative to Intel's CPUs.

China has no alternative to ARM.

Even the software that is used for designing the chips, the EDA, China has no homegrown company.



Also if you were actually capable of making 14 nm chips, the US ban on Fujian Jinhua wouldn't have been so fatal for Jinhua. Most DRAM chips are actually made at even higher dimension nodes.

You are underestimating China deliberately.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

You are underestimating China deliberately.

Everything that I wrote in that comment is true.

It is actually fairly estimating China.

 

[TheTruth]

Everything that I wrote in that comment is true.

It is actually fairly estimating China.

According to geniuses like you, China should have capitulated in 1980.

 

[lcloo]

Trump's negotiation policy is very much typical. Before any negotiation he will threaten the other party, and he will use his stick for a few hits, and will give back a small tiny carrot during negotiation. This behaviour happened during his negotiations with almost every country but very much obvious during the North Korea US negotiations, before, during and after the summit meetings in Singapore and Hanoi.

And his is using the same trick before his meeting with President Xi in the coming G20 meeting. Using stick before a meeting with China is going to backfire. In Asian culture, people show goodwill before negotiation. Trump seen to be using the Korean war and Vietnam war as example, i.e. attack to gain ground before negotiation for cease fire.

If that is Trump's intention, any fruit of the coming negotiation will be a cease fire in Tariff war, not the end of it.