Upgrade of Pakistans Bell AH-1F Cobra helicopters

[cabatli_53]

Brothers, I really want to hear a future co-operation project between Turkey and Pakistan for T-129 too much.... and While We are making disscussion about the specifications of helicopters under that thread, I hope, Both counterparts of two brother countries are preapring to make some secret tehnological exchance agreements to produce Pakistani Attack helicopter for future...

That is a table which is issued a comparison between T-129 and AH-1W. You know AH-1W are currently in servise in USA army with Apache helicopters. But As You will realise that According to released specification table by Turkish SSM, T-129 will be much more capable helicopter then not only AH-1W but also Tiger, A-129, and anothers which is involved same class (Light Weight Multi-Purpose) helos with T-129...

First table is related with range scales of helos (Combat/Ferry)

Difference between TUC-1 and TUC-2 configuration of T-129

T-129 Workload agaisnt Anti-teror and Escort operations...

General

 

[S-2]

There remains MASSIVE global use of the AH-1F series. Does anybody know that Bell is incapable of supplying and servicing these frames?

Given the affordability and an existing training/logistics system to support such, it would seem odd to indulge flights of fancy when a proven and extremely lethal system is already integrated. Our MAGTF in A-stan is flying AH-1W and I know my eyes are heartened by the ordnance I've seen delivered by snakes.

I modestly think this may be a helluva buy in the midst of war.

 

[Arsalan]

, if we still rely on USA, it can only give us Re-Furb Cobras, which are old F models. There are no upgrades available for F models. USA has upgraded J models (twin engine version) to W/Z models.

moreover brother even if we get the upgraded cobras, which are very good for our need in actual specs, operational with other forces, the bitter fact is that we will never be having complete upgradation pack! either our birds will lack one thing or the other eg it may be that they come with no night capabilities which in actual is not the case with the upgraded birds!
the US may not give as helmet mounted sight, or deprive us of some jamming abilities or any such thing!
this have always happened with pak-US deals so it is better not to go for the upgraded birds as they wont deleiver with us what they really are capable of!!

what do you think?

regards!

 

[fatman17]

PAA is very happy with the performance of its Cobras - the only issue is the availability of the chain-gun ammo and the spares at the right time and place - so there is a lot of down time with the 39 odd Cobras in our inventory - the US supply chain is cumbersome.

 

[HAIDER]

I think people are not noticing , last week US officials issued notice to defenc department to locate Cobras in different bases (means getting rusty and not in use at all), refurbished them and deliver to Pakistan urgently. Its in many in number. Not 4 or 5.

 

[Arsalan]

I think people are not noticing , last week US officials issued notice to defenc department to locate Cobras in different bases (means getting rusty and not in use at all), refurbished them and deliver to Pakistan urgently. Its in many in number. Not 4 or 5.

well IF we gwt them, it will be fine only if we get them in quite some numbers!
as larger the fellt more we can invest on developing a system to benifit all those! turkish may prove helpfull in bringing our fleet up-to-the mark!

 

[HAIDER]

Its all depend how mature Pakistani industry in the field of metallurgy. Whole defence industry depends on metallurgy.

 

[Arsalan]

Its all depend how mature Pakistani industry in the field of metallurgy. Whole defence industry depends on metallurgy.

very true, may be we can get some help from turkey in this regard. but again it will be only feasiable if we have cobras in large numbers, we have about 0 of them and another 30-40 will be good to go for massive upgrades like full night vision capabilities, ability to fir air launched baiktar shikan with all the birds, HMS and some jammers!

what do you think!

regards!

 

[Tang0]

Malay,

Notwithstanding Indian concerns, which are misplaced, the higher the resolution and greater range the better the ability of the PA to avoid collateral damage and conduct more pinpoint strikes. The FLIR/Longbow on the Apache provides exceptional SA on the ground.

In terms of armoured columns, Cobras are still a threat with RF guided TOWs instead of wired TOWs. Given any induction of Apache in the PA, the numbers would be too small to make a difference in the Indo-Pak scenario.

Of course, but the Apache is an expensive toy, and also has significantly increased maintenance costs compared to the AH-1. Do you suppose there is a reason the USMC stuck with the AH-1W over the Apache? Alot of it was the fact that they lobbied pretty hard for the W variant over the G (Using political capital in the process), but I am sure the extra 8 million $, plus over 1 million hours of proven combat time in Vietnam had something to do with it.

No offense to PA aviation, but if the Apache has a reputation of being a "Hanger Queen" in US hands, how will it fair in PA hands?

Apache also has had operation combat losses over its history since the Apache has entered production, the Cobra has not. At least in US hands, not so certain about others. (Read Iran)

So yes, Millimeter Wave Radar and network-centric warfare are very nice. However, is it worth the extra 8 million, or the increased fragility of the package?

 

[Blackpearl]

very true, may be we can get some help from turkey in this regard. but again it will be only feasiable if we have cobras in large numbers, we have about 0 of them and another 30-40 will be good to go for massive upgrades like full night vision capabilities, ability to fir air launched baiktar shikan with all the birds, HMS and some jammers!

what do you think!

regards!

The F models held with Pakistan Army are quite potent machines. All of the above characteristics are there in Pak machines like
-- Night visison system as our Cobra are C-NITE (Cobra night imaging thermal equipment), nowhere in the world, F models are designed and modified any missile other then TOW. so firing of Baktar Shikan is out of question.
Then F models come with HMS both for pilot and gunner. this means, through HMS, pilot or gunner can rotate the 20 mm gun anywhere they see. see this
HELMET SIGHT SUBSYSTEM

Infra red Jammers are now standard on all F models including Pakistan. One can notice a crystal structure on top of the engine exhaust, also called Disco Ball.

 

[BoggedDown]

PA should have ordered WZ-9 gunship helicopters from china long back instead of shamelessly begging for more cobras or Apachees from USA. May be WZ-9s are not top of the line but good enough against current fighting with militants in FATA nad NWFP. Also instead of keep asking for pedetor drones from USA, PA could have acquired some UCAV versions from China. But PA high ups are in love with USA made weapons and in their mind no war can be faught without american weapons. This is insane slave mentality. Pakistani armed forces and Pakistani's in general must shun the desire to "get best" with empty pockets. This shameless mentality has kill the backbone of the nation.

 

[echo 1]

I think that Pakistan should go for the Mi-35 HIND (Night Attack) Helicopters from Russia.

Mi-35PN

Not only these helicopters are very effective in hot and high conditions (experience from Afghanistan during USSR days) but they also have a certain horror affinity to their appearance which can very well douse the spirit of the most stoutest of battle hardened criminal like the Uzbeks, Tajiks and other nationalities in the Taliban folds. This can be done by convincing the Russian President Medeyev and the PM Putin that this war on terror against the Taliban is in their interest too since most of the foreign fighters are coming from ex-USSR states in Central Asia.

Or buy MI-35 and give them to South Africa to turn them into this animal
Flickr Photo Download: South African Vodka : MI-24
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...?q=mi+24+modernized&hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_en&um=1

 

[Arsalan]

The F models held with Pakistan Army are quite potent machines. All of the above characteristics are there in Pak machines like
-- Night visison system as our Cobra are C-NITE (Cobra night imaging thermal equipment, nowhere in the world, F models are designed and modified any missile other then TOW. so firing of Baktar Shikan is out of question.
Then F models come with HMS both for pilot and gunner. this means, through HMS, pilot or gunner can rotate the 200 mm gun anywhere they see. see this
HELMET SIGHT SUBSYSTEM

Infra red Jammers are now standard on all F models including Pakistan. One can notice a crystal structure on top of the engine exhaust, also called Disco Ball.

well dear for baktar shikan being impossible you are a bit wrong i guess!

actually i have saw this on PTV documentry that PAF cobras can now fire the indeginiously developed baktar shikan missile! i am searching on it and if anyone of you find some news regarding this kindly post it!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

atleast i found the link on wikipedia that pakistani cobras AH1-F are able to fire baktar shikan missile

a vedio is also there on youtube, it is the same one i saw on PTV long time ago!

YouTube - Pakistan Army AH-1F Baktar-e-Shikan Firing Display - ??? ???

 

[Super Falcon]

we dont need upgradate we need new apaches