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Unternehmen Zitadelle

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Operation Citadel (Unternehmen Zitadelle) was the German code name for the thrust by Heeresgruppe Mitte (Army Group Center) to take Kursk in July, 1943. This was the last German strategic offensive on the Eastern Front. Pitting 912000 men of the best of the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS, Germany hoped to deal a crushing blow to the Soviet Red Army, thereby wresting initiative from them. In the end, the battle ended in a stalemate, which ultimately paved the way for total domination of the Red Army on the Ost Front.
443px-Kursk-1943-Plan-GE.svg.png

Legend - GA - Guards Army., Abt - Abteilung, PzA - PanzerArmee, AK - Armeekorps

After participating in several juvenile threads, here I welcome you to discuss and analyze over the following points vis a vis the battles involved.

1. Was Hitler and the OKH(Oberkommando Der Heer) correct in beginning such a high stake offensive?

2. Did Zitadelle have a substantial chance of success?

3. Would a successful Zitadelle have changed the situation in Germany's favor in a major way?

4. Was Manstein correct in his evaluation of the scenario - that victory was close?

5. Was Hitler correct in withdrawing the Panzer divisions especially the entire II SS Panzer Korps was detached from the OOB(Order of Battle) and sent to Italy(to prepare for Achse, the planned occupation and possible fight in post surrender Italy)?

@Joe Shearer @INDIC @jarves @Indischer @scorpionx @Oscar @Hyperion @RAMPAGE @Armstrong @Pakistanisage @500 @Dillinger @chak de INDIA @jaibi @genmirajborgza786 @Aeronaut @Roybot @DRAY @Informant @Pakistani Exile @Chinese-Dragon @Jaanbaz @Khan_patriot @NKVD @vostok @45'22' and others.

Please feel free to invite others for a fruitful discussion :tup:
 
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The Soviets were expecting an offensive, they had packed the bulge with artillery, armor and trench defenses, for the germans the element of surprise was lost :undecided:

300px-Elefant_USAOM-01.jpg

Plus Ferdinand TD first used in Kursk proved to be too heavy and cumbersome

220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-313-1004-25%2C_Italien%2C_Panzer_%22Elefant%22.jpg
 
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The Soviets were expecting an offensive, they had packed the bulge with artillery, armor and trench defenses, for the germans the element of surprise was lost :undecided:

300px-Elefant_USAOM-01.jpg

Plus Ferdinand TD first used in Kursk proved to be too heavy and cumbersome

220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-313-1004-25%2C_Italien%2C_Panzer_%22Elefant%22.jpg
True. In spite of that Germans met success upto Prokhorovka. Question is was the withdrawal of the SS Panzer Korps from Manstein's reserve a good decision? :azn:

And total Ferdinands committed was only 91. :)
 
| By taking up Operation Citadel, Hitler was virtually staking all his reserves. But the problem was it was an extremely high risk he was taking to assure his compadres about the German ability to turn the course of war other way around after the allied victory in Tunisia. He did not want to lose Sicily and Italy at any cost. Was he correct? Well, the intention was to launch a Bewegungskrieg, but Hitler failed to assess the air reconnaissance report that Soviet Armour brigade now enjoy the superiority in numbers and weaponry.


| OKW officers themselves have little faith in the whole operation. For Hitler’s hesitation to launch the offensive despite Manstein’s repeated request and the time to wait for the new Mark V Panther gave the Soviets valuable breathing space.Also the attacking force always need a numerical superiority of 3:1 over its defenders. But here it was not the case. Rokossovsky’s central front, Vatutin’s Voronezh front,Malinovsky’s South Western front and Konev’s steppe front accounted for 1,900,000 men where as the German strength was about 780,000. It was a Gamble. It had little chances of turning the wind in favour of Germans even if they manage to win the offensive. The day Americans stepped into the war the fate of war was sealed.


| Manstein was one of the finest and ablest generals the Germans could ever had. He could have at least stabilized the frontier if Hitler, preoccupied by the invasion of Sicily wouldn’t have withdrawn II SS Panzer Corps. The Germans received severed battering but Soviet lost more men and armoured vehicles. For every Panzer destroyed the Soviets had to lose five armoured vehicle. But the numerical advantage the Soviets had made difficult for the Germans to sustain the limited success for a longer time. The excellent battle manoeuvre of 6th Panzer Division on the line of river Donets and Rzhavets was impossible to keep up when the German supply lines were at continuous threat from Partisan attacks and armoured corps were severely exhausted.
 
In the beginning of operation Barbarossa, Generaloberst Heinz Guderien put a plan of Blitzkrieg, armored invasion long up to Moscow with help of Luftwaffe. Feldmarschall Eric von Manstein also supported his idea, Hitler rejected.
Motive was that Soviets were weak in the beginning and Reich's resources do not allow long wars.
In Unternehmen Zitadelle, Hitler again rejected von Manstein's plan of defence.
 
Actually the Germans were much closer to clinching victory at Kursk. They were still far, but their performance was superb. Facing almost a 6 to 1 superiority, Manstein's stroke brought the panzers to Prokhorovka.

This Prokhorovka was incidentally the place where the 5th Guards was being committed. Here began one of the most intense armored battles of warfare. Even here the 5th Guards was decimated.
Battle of Prokhorovka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the fierce engagement the Waffen SS's ferocity was proved. They lost 43 AFVs while total Sowjet losses were almost 770 AFVs. The reason for such a heavy loss was that the Soviet's were unprepared and the tanks were committed piecemeal into action. For the Germans it was almost a duck shoot. It ended as a tactical victory for the Germans!

Why did the Soviets commit such huge reserves in such haste?
A - To gain time for bringing more reserves, especially their Shock Armies(actually second grade troops as compared to Guards). More importantly this little town of Prokhorovka was the last line of defence for Kursk. Which meant, a successful advance would have cut of the lines of supply for the entire Russian pocket. The Soviets then would either have to beat back the German pincer or withdraw from the North.

Why the North?
Because Busse's pincer in the North had faltered and pretty much remained grounded. It would have been a dangerous maneuver though.

A second factor was also crucial and often neglected.
Operation Kutuzov, a hastily organized offensive was designed at STAVKA. The attack went on the left flank of Busse's 9th Armee. Busse was already almost stopped. This attack not only forced him to commit his reserves to prevent a breatkthrough, but also withdraw troops from the pincer to meet the advance. Also while the Germans destroyed the 5th Guards Army and 4 other Russian Corps in Prokhorovka on 12 July, the Allies had landed in Sicily around 9th. So time was running out.

It was then that Hitler summoned Manstein to Wolfschanze(Rastenburg) and asked if the operation should be stopped. Manstein opposed and so the 54th PanzerKorps still remained. But after 48 hours the Russians had also attacked in the South and these reserves were taken out of the Kursk battle zone and committed South. A new directive ordered the offensive to cease.
 
Sorry I don't have indepth knowledge of world war 2.
 
I recently read an excellent book on the eastern front in general, and one Soviet general in particular: "Stalin's General: the Life of Georgy Zhukov", by Geoffrey Robertson. For an insight into the problem posed, it is recommended.

We do all realise that what-if scenarios are fun, but ultimately quite meaningless. What happened, happened. Our work is to sift through the evidence and re-construct those remote events with the least bias in mind.
 
Operation Citadel (Unternehmen Zitadelle) was the German code name for the thrust by Heeresgruppe Mitte (Army Group Center) to take Kursk in July, 1943. This was the last German strategic offensive on the Eastern Front. Pitting 912000 men of the best of the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS, Germany hoped to deal a crushing blow to the Soviet Red Army, thereby wresting initiative from them. In the end, the battle ended in a stalemate, which ultimately paved the way for total domination of the Red Army on the Ost Front.
443px-Kursk-1943-Plan-GE.svg.png

Legend - GA - Guards Army., Abt - Abteilung, PzA - PanzerArmee, AK - Armeekorps

After participating in several juvenile threads, here I welcome you to discuss and analyze over the following points vis a vis the battles involved.

1. Was Hitler and the OKH(Oberkommando Der Heer) correct in beginning such a high stake offensive?

2. Did Zitadelle have a substantial chance of success?

3. Would a successful Zitadelle have changed the situation in Germany's favor in a major way?

4. Was Manstein correct in his evaluation of the scenario - that victory was close?

5. Was Hitler correct in withdrawing the Panzer divisions especially the entire II SS Panzer Korps was detached from the OOB(Order of Battle) and sent to Italy(to prepare for Achse, the planned occupation and possible fight in post surrender Italy)?

@Joe Shearer @INDIC @jarves @Indischer @scorpionx @Oscar @Hyperion @RAMPAGE @Armstrong @Pakistanisage @500 @Dillinger @chak de INDIA @jaibi @genmirajborgza786 @Aeronaut @Roybot @DRAY @Informant @Pakistani Exile @Chinese-Dragon @Jaanbaz @Khan_patriot @NKVD @vostok @45'22' and others.

Please feel free to invite others for a fruitful discussion :tup:

1.Yes and no.In a grand strategic sense germany understood that it had a very limited time frame before the western powers brought their land forces into mainland europe.They needed SOMETHING to deal enough of a blow to soviet so as to regain the initiative on the eastern front lost after stalingrad and to prop up sagging morale off axis partners.German strategists knew once allied land forces were in europe never again would they be able to focus such large percentage of the wehrmacht on the eastern front.
However they didn't have manpower for an offensive,the whole key to the german position in the east in 1943 were the 11 panzer divisions of army group centre and south.These were what were keeping the red army in check and under manstein had crushed the soviet advance after stalingrad at 3rd kharkov.To accomplish the first objective germany would have to jeopardize its whole position completely,if the offensive failed and its armoured reserves were squandered nothing would be left to halt a soviet counterblow.Guderian advised hitler to rest and requip the panzerwaffe throughout 1943 with panthers and stay on the defensive,then resume the offensive in 1944.But hitler had other plans,the plan was not wholly unjustified.

2.Yes it did.Provided hitler had listened to manstein and attacked in april -may.Once the massive soviet fortifications were completed there was no chance.Giving soviets so much build up time in exchange for few untried panthers and fewer still tigers was not worth the trade off.

3.No,it would only have delayed the inevitable.Germany lost the war before moscow in 1941.Stalingrad ended germany's last chance at any settlement in russia.

4.No.Zitadelle failed once model's projected pincer was stopped cold.The encirclement scheme was finished.The southern advance became merely about attriting soviet armoured reserves ,which the panzers did but at a much higher cost than germany could afford.

5.No.Italy is mountanous area unsuited to armoured warfare,kesselring showed in 1944-45 it could be held fine without large scale use of armour.A main principle of war is selection and maintainence of aim.German high command consistently blundered at this point.Once during battle of britain when RAF was being ground down and in serious trouble with its bases being wiped out around the kent region,switched focus to bombing london and lost the initiative forever.
Again after initial barbarossa success total confusion and contradiction in high command between subsequent aim,moscow or ukraine?Again in fall blau 1942 after original goal of taking caucasus midway hitler decides to split forces,half to take symbolic objective stalingrad half on the original objective the oilfields.Result none of the detatchments are strong enough to perform their mission.

Actually the Germans were much closer to clinching victory at Kursk. They were still far, but their performance was superb. Facing almost a 6 to 1 superiority, Manstein's stroke brought the panzers to Prokhorovka.

This Prokhorovka was incidentally the place where the 5th Guards was being committed. Here began one of the most intense armored battles of warfare. Even here the 5th Guards was decimated.
Battle of Prokhorovka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the fierce engagement the Waffen SS's ferocity was proved. They lost 43 AFVs while total Sowjet losses were almost 770 AFVs. The reason for such a heavy loss was that the Soviet's were unprepared and the tanks were committed piecemeal into action. For the Germans it was almost a duck shoot. It ended as a tactical victory for the Germans!

Why did the Soviets commit such huge reserves in such haste?
A - To gain time for bringing more reserves, especially their Shock Armies(actually second grade troops as compared to Guards). More importantly this little town of Prokhorovka was the last line of defence for Kursk. Which meant, a successful advance would have cut of the lines of supply for the entire Russian pocket. The Soviets then would either have to beat back the German pincer or withdraw from the North.

Why the North?
Because Busse's pincer in the North had faltered and pretty much remained grounded. It would have been a dangerous maneuver though.

A second factor was also crucial and often neglected.
Operation Kutuzov, a hastily organized offensive was designed at STAVKA. The attack went on the left flank of Busse's 9th Armee. Busse was already almost stopped. This attack not only forced him to commit his reserves to prevent a breatkthrough, but also withdraw troops from the pincer to meet the advance. Also while the Germans destroyed the 5th Guards Army and 4 other Russian Corps in Prokhorovka on 12 July, the Allies had landed in Sicily around 9th. So time was running out.

It was then that Hitler summoned Manstein to Wolfschanze(Rastenburg) and asked if the operation should be stopped. Manstein opposed and so the 54th PanzerKorps still remained. But after 48 hours the Russians had also attacked in the South and these reserves were taken out of the Kursk battle zone and committed South. A new directive ordered the offensive to cease.

U are quoting figures from german sources only,not declassified soviet archives.Germans lost over 150-200 armoured vehicles at prokhorovka,sure they cost much more soviet losses ,BUT the battlefield remained in soviet hands so none of the damaged german tanks could be recovered while soviets could recover theirs.And many of the soviet tanks were older model light tanks.Majority were t-34s,but no is-2 tanks were present only a handful isu-152 tank destroyers being employed in defensive belts.Prokhorovka WAS the last defenisve line,but germans didn't possess the strength to hold it and keep the pocket closed.As bulk of soviet armour reserves were still intact and northern pincer required for a true envelopment operation had failed.
 
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I recently read an excellent book on the eastern front in general, and one Soviet general in particular: "Stalin's General: the Life of Georgy Zhukov", by Geoffrey Robertson. For an insight into the problem posed, it is recommended.

We do all realise that what-if scenarios are fun, but ultimately quite meaningless. What happened, happened. Our work is to sift through the evidence and re-construct those remote events with the least bias in mind.

Joe,if i may, consider reading osprey publishing campaign series books.They are analysed with maps,something many normal books lack.

In the beginning of operation Barbarossa, Generaloberst Heinz Guderien put a plan of Blitzkrieg, armored invasion long up to Moscow with help of Luftwaffe. Feldmarschall Eric von Manstein also supported his idea, Hitler rejected.
Motive was that Soviets were weak in the beginning and Reich's resources do not allow long wars.
In Unternehmen Zitadelle, Hitler again rejected von Manstein's plan of defence.

zitadelle is a unique case where where all 3 of the best german generals model,manstein and guderian agreed plan was likely failure..but essentially they had no choice,if they did nothing in 1943,in 1944 they would be fighting on 2-3 fronts and would never have the strength to mount an offensive in the east.Even before kursk game was up more or less.
 
The Soviets were expecting an offensive, they had packed the bulge with artillery, armor and trench defenses, for the germans the element of surprise was lost :undecided:

300px-Elefant_USAOM-01.jpg

Plus Ferdinand TD first used in Kursk proved to be too heavy and cumbersome

220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-313-1004-25%2C_Italien%2C_Panzer_%22Elefant%22.jpg

Main flaws were it got isolated from infantry,as it lacked anti inf machine gun for defense soviet soldiers just walked up and dropped grenade into the hatch.In long distance killing it performed well.
 
Citadel was bound to fail because Soviets were privy to German plans well in advance. They knew their intentions to the last details. They had prepared the deepest defences. Ditches minefields everywhere. Thats why the northern pincer got stuck and southern pincer only moved along with great difficulty.
The critical factor was Germans allowing them time to build those defences, 111 days to be exact. After Stalingrad Germans were on a retreat in the south. Stalin aimed for complete destruction of German southern front by pushing his armies towards the Dnieper and reaching the river before the retreating Germans. In this way he aimed to smash the German armies between Donets and Dnieper. But Germans halted the Soviet driving forces and smashed their pincers and regained the initiative. Took back Kharkov and Belgorod. After Belgorod the next natural thing to do was to encircle the Soviet forces in the bulge before Kursk taking advantage of weak Soviet position after these blows. But German delayed this operation and launched it after 111 days when it was bound to fail.

This image shows mop up of Soviets between donets and dnieper and shaping up of Kursk bulge.
Eastern_Front_1943-02_to_1943-08.png
 
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Actually, Wehrmacht was weakened by the loss of men and equipment in the battle of Stalingrad, but the army still could put more than three million troops in the field, and Hitler was eager to prove the German army was still formidable. After months of delay, Hitler decided to put his troops to the test in one great offensive that he said “will shine like a beacon around the world.”

Operation Citadel was aimed at eliminating the Red Army at Kursk. The town itself was of minor significance; it was chosen because it was situated in a bulge between the fronts of Field Marshal Erich von Manstein's Army Group South and Field Marshal Hans Gunther von Kluge's Army Group Center. Hitler believed the attack would destroy five Soviet armies and thereby prevent the Soviets from mounting any offensives for at least the remainder of the year. Success in battle would also allow Hitler to direct more resources to the Mediterranean theater.

Originally, the offensive was to quickly follow the successful recapture of Kharkov, but bad weather, indecision, and distractions on other fronts postponed the attack. When the Germans were finally ready to go, the Soviets had been given time to prepare. Approximately 570,000 German soldiers faced nearly one million Russians protected by more than 6,000 miles of trenches interspersed with an average of 2,400 antitank and 2,700 antipersonnel mines for each mile of front.

The German attack began on July 5 and moved steadily for four days before stiff resistance stopped it. The Russians counterattacked and began to reverse the German gains. Suddenly, Hitler called off Citadel to divert troops to meet the Allied forces that had just landed in Sicily.

What made the defeat particularly damaging to the German war effort was the loss of equipment. The fight for Kursk involved the largest tank battle in history, a total of 6,000 tanks, and the German loss of approximately 3,000 was devastating because new ones were not manufactured quickly enough to replace them. The air battle was equally fierce, with 4,000 aircraft in combat. The Germans bore the brunt, losing nearly 1,400.

The Russians were not about to give the Germans a break. On August 3, 1943, the Red Army attacked Kursk and overwhelmed the troops that had been on the attack a month earlier. The Germans were on the run. Ignoring pleas for reinforcements, Hitler instead ordered the creation of a fortified line, the East Wall not to give his troops a place to fall back to and hold, but rather to prevent a retreat. German forces never again threatened Moscow and, from that point on, the Russians seized the initiative and did not let up until reaching Berlin.
 
The only case I want to make is that time was the decisive factor here. This operation launched in time would have sealed the fate of Soviet armies in the Kursk bulge.
 
@AUSTERLITZ - Good points. @Joe Shearer - Yes, that's a very good book and far more detailed.

I did go through Guderian's 'Achtung Panzer' as well as Manstein's 'Lost Victories'. Though they are great, but there is an excessive bias involved. Similar bias exists in Zhukov's memoirs. As Guderian states, Hitler was well aware of the risk. Hitler himself remarked, "The thought of it makes my stomach churn". But he gave the green signal, Guderian believes it was due to the insistence of Zeitzler(CoS OKH)

The double pincer also called a defensive pincer (the Russian line was kinda bulge within the German line. Actually more than regaining the initiative, the objective was as your correctly stated - to deal a powerful blow and build a proper line in the East, pretty much like the Siegfried Line. Had Kursk been taken, it would have shortened the lines of defence, thereby releasing valuable mobile reserves for the expected Allied attack in the continent.

This attack had almost become doomed after the norther pincer of the 9. Armee has been grounded. Even then Kursk being the only railway line in the south could have been taken by the 2nd SS Panzers, provided, the Germans had more reserves. This is something they did not :P

Also the German tanks or AFVs put out of action was around 124.
The Battle of Kursk
The reason is simple - the Germans held the ground on July 13. Hence the Tigers and Panthers - which were damaged were repaired or at least towed back. Hence total irrecoverable losses were very low for the Germans. The Russians had to abandon their vehicles. The orderly German withdrawal from the area allowed them to keep their armored losses low. So yes, losses were high for the Germans as well, but much fewer were ultimately written off. The German engineers or pioneers were the best in the world.

However there is one vital flaw in your argument. And that is Italy. German Abwehr's information had reached rock bottom, partly due to ULTRA intercepts, partly due to deliberate sabotage by Canaris etc. So Hitler did not know about the extent of the Allied plan. There was a genuine fear of 3 possibilities.

1. A landing in the Adriatic. This was Churchill's pet plan. He nagged but did not get his way. The Allied High Command however fed false radio traffic to reinforce the idea of disturbing the Balkans. Such a landing would have been disastrous for the Axis. NDH (Kroatien) was defenceless. Hungary had its army in the East. Germany was totally occupied. Italy had signed the armistice. From the area around north of Albania to Split - is flatland and vulnerable.

2. There was a fear that the Allies would land not in the far south of Italy, but somewhere in the North.

3. There could be follow up invasion in South France or in the West.

Having so many areas to cover - there could be only one solution ... which is to gain time with the quickest commitment of the mobile reserves. The LSSAH etc were supposed to be these reserves. Also Kesselring's dogged defense is known to us in retrospect. With such few forces, in difficult terrain and hostile populace, the overall situation was not at all rosy. The way the Germans kept on building lines and defending them in Italy bit by bit - was genius. At that time however, the Allies had come too close for comfort, and the proximity to the German underbelly was more serious that engaging in an offensive action in the East.

By following the line of attack as the Germans did, Citadel would have failed, it was only the training and equipment of the Germans that made them come close to a victory. But there was one possibility by which Hitler could have forced a victory in Kursk. :D
 

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