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UN bans Jamaat-ud-Dawa; declares it a terror outfit

No Pakistan, should keep its nose clean

So when wasnt Pakistan's nose clean or are you suggesting something else here. Look i am no fan of Jamaat-ud-Dawa however the simple point that i am trying to make is that Pakistani commission was not informed at all that their citizens are being banned and this is an insult. Because like the other day some analysist on GEO was saying(I dont remember his name) that what next Jamat islami will be banned and then they move on and tell that even PML-N is involved too to some extent. Are we going to ban them all?
Bottom line is that no evidence what so ever was ever presented to the accused party(Pakistan here) that their soil is indeed used by a group that is involved in terrorism in India and just by going for the Indian word and banning Pakistani groups, individuals clearly resembles the double standards shown here and add more to it that the GOP did not even condemn the act yet alone rejecting it infact the statement issued by them was "we will have to act on what the UN says, we cannot make the UN angry".:tsk:
 
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Press Statement
Sean McCormack, Spokesman
Washington, DC
December 9, 2008

Russia: Raid on Memorial Research Center
We are deeply concerned about a raid by Russian law enforcement officers on the research center operated by Memorial in St. Petersburg last week. Memorial is a respected non-governmental organization dedicated to remembering the victims of totalitarian repression, and the historical documents and information in its archives are invaluable sources for historians and social scientists worldwide. It is vital to permit their important work to continue without hindrance. We urge Russian authorities to ensure the speedy and safe return of all seized equipment and archival material. Civil society organizations such as the Memorial research center play a critical role in the development of democratic societies and the promotion of human rights.

Unfortunately, this action against Memorial is not an isolated instance of pressure against freedom of association and expression in Russia. In the past few weeks alone, there have been reports of harassment against media and other civil society organizations. It is imperative that these organizations and individuals be allowed to function and flourish, free of political pressure, intimidation, harassment, or restrictions. :coffee::undecided:

2008/1023
Released on December 9, 2008
 
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Pakistan’s Big Risk

The ban on an Islamist group linked to the Mumbai attacks gives Islamabad one more enemy to worry about.

By Ron Moreau | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Dec 11, 2008

When a devastating earthquake shook mountainous Kashmir in October 2005, killing 80,000 people, burying entire villages under landslides, one of the first and best-equipped relief organizations on the scene was the Jamaat-ul-Dawa charity. It brought in physicians, surgeons and nurses. It set up emergency surgical and first-aid clinics. It pitched tents to house the homeless and distributed food and medicine to tens of thousands. It stayed behind and helped to build some 5,000 permanent homes for the displaced.

It's no wonder that Jamaat was able to react so quickly. Kashmir has long been a recruiting and training ground for Jamaat's other face—the Islamist, anti-Indian Lashkar-e-Taiba guerrilla organization, which both Indian and U.S. intelligence have singled out as the planner and organizer of last month's murderous Mumbai attacks. Lashkar's main aim is to wrest the Indian sector of Kashmir from New Delhi's control through violence.

Today Islamabad took the extraordinary and surprising step of banning Jamaat from Pakistan. Police quickly closed dozens of Jamaat's offices across the country, including nine in the sprawling port city of Karachi, the country's largest. The government also issued an arrest warrant for the Jamaat's amir, or supreme leader, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, who is based at a mosque and madrassa complex in Lahore. "We are required to take action against Jamaat and its leaders under the Security Council resolution," said Sherry Rehman, the information minister told NEWSWEEK.

In a startling admission for a Pakistani leader, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said today that his government was investigating links between Jamaat and Lashkar, and admitted that "the two groups have the same leadership." This is the first time any Pakistan leader has acknowledged the link between the two groups.

The crackdown is the Pakistani government's most serious action taken against an extremist organization since soon after 9/11, when it banned Lashkar. It could be a dangerous gamble for Islamabad. Many Pakistanis, who may be sympathetic to Jamaat and its charitable works and therefore willing to overlook its association with Lashkar's gunmen, could oppose the government's iron-fisted policy. Islamist groups and the religious parties will no doubt try to organize public anti-government and pro-Jamaat organizations. The group's suppression may also drive many of its adherents underground where they could hook up with still-active Lashkar operatives and begin a violent action against the government.

Pakistan's move against Jamaat comes after weeks of pressure on Islamabad by India and the United States. Jamaat's top operatives, such as Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, one of Lashkar's founders, recruited, trained and controlled the 10 gunmen who carried out the killing of more than 170 people in Mumbai, according to Indian and U.S. intelligence. Pakistan at first firmly denied that any Pakistanis were involved in the massacre, but this week, as evidence of Lashkar's involvement mounted, the government belatedly took action against the Lashkar-Jamaat combine. It started by raiding a riverside Jamaat madrassa complex near Muzaffarabad last Sunday. After a brief firefight it arrested Lakhvi and several other key Lashkar leaders.

That move was not enough to satisfy New Delhi and Washington. To increase the pressure, a United Nations Security Council committee on Wednesday declared Jamaat a terrorist organization and slapped it with U.N. sanctions, including the freezing of its assets, a travel ban on its members and an arms embargo on the organization. On Thursday, to ramp up the pressure, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte arrived in Islamabad on Thursday on the heels of Condoleezza Rice and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen. Sensing that further resistance could seriously damage relations with Washington, Pakistan launched what appeared to be a nationwide crackdown on Jamaat and its leadership.

There's little doubt that the distinction between Lashkar and Jamaat, which roughly translates as "enter into the fold of Islam," is more apparent than real. Both organizations fed into the other. Saeed, a onetime university professor and adherent to the harsh Wahhabi school of Islam, had founded Jamaat back in 1985 as a relief organization to help flood victims. Soon afterwards he and Lakhvi founded Lashkar with the assistance of the Pakistani military's powerful Inter-Service Intelligence spy agency. The ISI and the Pakistani military used Lashkar as they did other similar extremist guerrilla groups they created as an inexpensive foreign-policy arm of the Pakistani state. Lashkar's men fought in both Afghanistan and inside Indian Kashmir, furthering Pakistani goals.

Saeed, from his lair in Lahore, regularly gives anti-Indian and anti-American speeches and denounces Pakistan's cooperation with Washington in the war against armed extremists. Just before the warrant for his arrest was issued, Saeed told a news conference in Lahore: "If India or the U.S. has any proof against Jamaat-ul-Dawa, we are ready to stand in any court. We do not beg, we demand justice." He denied that his group was involved in the Mumbai attacks. "We will challenge the [U.N.] decision in the international court of justice," he said. Not long after he spoke, a large contingent of police surrounded his house in Lahore and ordered him not to venture out.

This isn't the first time Saeed has been placed under house arrest. Shortly after the attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001, New Delhi accused Lashkar of involvement, which led to then Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf to ban Lashkar from Pakistan. Saeed was detained and spent most of 2002 under house arrest. He then let it be known that he had severed his links with Lashkar. Upon his quiet release he ostensibly concentrated on leading Jamaat, but he continued to spew his hard-line hateful messages.

It's unlikely that Saeed ever cut any ties with Lashkar because the two groups were one in the same. Jamaat was always the organization's public, philanthropic face, while Lashkar was its militant arm. Funds generated for Jamaat and its charitable relief efforts may have been channeled to Lashkar's militants. Led by Saeed, Jamaat's followers openly preached jihad against India, a wresting of Kashmir from India by any means, and virulent anti-Americanism. They are bitterly opposed to any rapprochement between India and Pakistan, seeing it as being a sellout of the Kashmiri cause of independence or Pakistani control.

Over the years Jamaat has morphed into a respected and popular charity. It has a nationwide footprint. Recently when an earthquake leveled hundreds of villages in Baluchistan, Jamaat was quickly there with a Kashmir-like relief effort. Its followers even traveled to Iran to help the victims of the earthquake in Bam in 2003. It sent aid to Indonesia following the 2006 tsunami. It operates mobile medical camps in poor, remote areas, carrying out surgery and eye treatment for free. It operates 150 or so free pharmaceutical dispensaries around the country. It publishes a weekly newspaper, three monthly magazines and even a bimonthly for children. Not surprisingly, the publications' message is strongly Islamist and anti-Indian. According to its Web site, Jamaat has local offices in "almost every town and city" in Pakistan. It claims to have spent at least $8.74 million since 2003 on various charitable initiatives.

Its flagship operation is located in a poor rural area near Muridke, just west of Lahore. The 150-acre, gated complex, called Markaz-e-Taiba, or "Center of the Pious," features a mosque, a madrassa for 3,000 students— including some girls, a hospital and a farm. At the school, the students who are largely drawn from the dirt-poor villages surrounding the complex not only learn the Koran by heart but also study with the use of computers and science labs. "There is no fear here," says Yahya Mujahid, a Jamaat spokesman. "It is upsetting," Mujahid told NEWSWEEK just before the crackdown, "to be doubted and misrepresented when all we have done and all we want to do is to help our fellow man."

So far Lashkar has not attacked the Pakistani security services in retaliation. But it could follow the example of other Kashmiri guerrilla groups such as Jaish-e-Muhammad, which was also banned and subsequently struck back violently against the government. Now Lashkar, and disgruntled Jamaat supporters, may strike back. Islamabad may have taken a giant step toward satisfying Indian and American demands for tough action. It may also find itself facing not only the Pakistani Taliban and Al Qaeda along the Afghan border, but another armed and dangerous enemy as well.

Ban on Islamist Group Puts Pakistan at Risk | Newsweek International | Newsweek.com
 
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It does not mean a ' squat' as u put it to India coz its strong on its feet & stands up for what it believes.

Really? You REALLY believe in that enough to boast of it? I find that quite funny, but thats me.

And for, Kashmir, I just have to say, it is almost a necessary evil for India, a country that can not let itself get broken into pieces with the tremendous diversity it is struggling to keep intact.

It is survival at stake, and pragmatically, something Pakistan needs to live with that what it wants is essentially going to destroy India. India can not afford to let Kashmir go, and it is not tyranny or evil minded hindus who want to keep kashmir under opression, it is survival of the country at stake.
 
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China backed ban
Friday, December 12, 2008
By Amir Mir

LAHORE: The United Nations Security Council’s decision to ban the Jamaat-ud-Daawa (JuD) as a global terrorist organisation could only become possible after China, which had thrice blocked similar attempts, finally gave its crucial yes vote for the UN resolution.

Diplomatic analysts said this change came apparently in the aftermath of the pressure created by the Mumbai terror attacks. The Al-Qaeda and Taliban Sanctions Committee of the UN Security Council approved on December 10, 2008 the addition of† four entries to its consolidated list of individuals and entities subject to the assets freeze and travel ban, including the JuD and its Ameer Hafiz Mohammad Saeed.

According to well placed Foreign Office sources, three resolutions seeking a ban on the JuD, tabled before the UN Security Council since 2003, had been simply put on technical hold by Beijing, while using its veto right being one of the five permanent UNSC members. Each time the Al-Qaeda, Taliban Sanctions Committee of the Security Council tabled a resolution to include the Jamaat-ud-Daawa in the list of terrorist groups, China blocked the move, while seeking credible evidence from the United Nations indicating JuD’s terror links.

Technical hold requires information demanded by any permanent member of the UNSC before processing a resolution to declare someone a terrorist organisation. The Chinese authorities reportedly used to intervene in the past on the request of the Musharraf regime. However, it had become hard for Beijing to vote against the move in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attacks and the evidence furnished by the Indian authorities.The Al-Qaeda and Taliban Sanctions Committee has the mandate to impose economic sanctions on the individuals and entities associated with al-Qaeda, its chief Osama bin Laden or with the Taliban wherever located.

The Committee, comprising 15 members, also entertains requests made by any member state on whose territory any terrorist organisation exists. The committee had previously declared the Lashkar-e-Taiba a terrorist outfit on May 2, 2005, while acting under a US request. The UN move was followed by the US State Department’s decision to brand Jamaat-ud- Daawa a terrorist organisation, saying it was a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Much before that, in December 2001, the US State Department had designated the Lashkar-e-Taiba a foreign terrorist organisation, following the attack on the Indian parliament on December 13, 2001, prompting the Musharraf regime to ban the group and freeze its assets on January 13, 2002. However, a few weeks before that, Hafiz Saeed announced his stepping down as the LeT chief besides launching of the Jamaat-ud-Daawa.

Addressing a press conference in Lahore on December 24, 2001, Hafiz Saeed announced his resignation and the appointment of Maulana Abdul Wahid Kashmiri as the new LeT chief. Hafiz Sahib further announced that the Lashkar has wrapped up its organisational set-up and moved its base from Pakistan to Srinagar in Kashmir. Since then, the JuD has denied having any links with the LeT, making Hafiz Saeed to go to the extent of denying that he had ever been the Lashkar Ameer.

The Pakistan government had been resisting the US pressure in the past to ban the JuD as a terrorist†outfit on the grounds that it was a charity-cum-humanitarian relief organisation, having nothing to do with the Lashkar-e-Taiba. As the US treasury department accused the Jamaatud Daawa in its Anti-Terrorist Financing Guidelines for the US-based charities on September 29, 2006 of supporting and financing terrorists under the guise of relief work for the October 2005 quake victims, the Musharraf regime decided to place the JuD on the watch list of the Pakistani interior ministry on August 20, 2006, instead of declaring it a terrorist group.

A Pakistan government spokesperson subsequently stated on May 3, 2006: “The government has no intention of designating the Jamaatud Daawa and its affiliate organisations as terrorist entities as done by the US”. However, Pakistan would be legally bound to take action if they were placed on the consolidated list of United Nations Security Council Sanctions Committee. But in the aftermath of the UNSC decision to brand the JuD a terrorist group, well placed government circles in Islamabad do not rule out the possibility of Islamabad finally clamping a ban on the group.

China backed ban
 
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UNSC bans dead Daawa leader
Friday, December 12, 2008
by News Desk

RAWALPINDI: The UNSC announced to clamp sanctions against four Jamaatud Daawa leaders including Muhammad Ashraf, organisation’s finance secretary who had died six years ago in Hyderabad during his detention and was buried in Golarchi, according to Geo TV.

According to the details, the UNSC passed a resolution banning four leaders and office bearers of Jamaatud Daawa dubbing it a terrorist outfit involved in Mumbai attacks as US and India pushed the international body hard for the same.

Muhammad Ashraf, Daawa’s finance secretary, was arrested twice during former President Pervez Musharraf’s regime while Daawa was banned at that time. He was detained under MPO in Mandi Jail of Hyderabad. During his second term of detention, he became seriously ill and was shifted to Civil Hospital, Hyderabad, where he breathed his last on 11 June 2002 and was buried in Golarchi.

UNSC bans dead Daawa leader
 
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UNSC bans dead Daawa leader



Friday, December 12, 2008

by News Desk

RAWALPINDI: The UNSC announced to clamp sanctions against four Jamaatud Daawa leaders including Muhammad Ashraf, organisation’s finance secretary who had died six years ago in Hyderabad during his detention and was buried in Golarchi, according to Geo TV

According to the details, the UNSC passed a resolution banning four leaders and office bearers of Jamaatud Daawa dubbing it a terrorist outfit involved in Mumbai attacks as US and India pushed the international body hard for the same.

Muhammad Ashraf, Daawa’s finance secretary, was arrested twice during former President Pervez Musharraf’s regime while Daawa was banned at that time. He was detained under MPO in Mandi Jail of Hyderabad. During his second term of detention, he became seriously ill and was shifted to Civil Hospital, Hyderabad, where he breathed his last on 11 June 2002 and was buried in Golarchi
UNSC bans dead Daawa leader

good job india :D
 
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Jammat-ud-Dawa was such a good and peaceful group.
I,m very sad on what the goverment has done to them.
 
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Something that i agree with you but what i said was in context the UN ressolutions on J&K. If they dont mean a damn thing for India, why is it that we cant even condemn it. As for the stoping part, that is the whole point i'm trying to make here at the first place that the GOP needs to not only condemn it but also to reject it.
That is however another thing that the blame from the GOP was the usual BS.


Ice ,

I realise what an uneviable position right thinking Pak citizens must be thanks to the GOP.

' Jo bik gaya woh kharid dar nahin ho sakta"
 
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12 Dec 2008

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan on Friday pressed India to share evidence from the Mumbai attacks, warning that any effort to prosecute key suspects rounded up in Pakistan will be hamstrung without it.

India says Pakistan must dismantle the militant group blamed for last month's attack, which left 173 dead, including nine gunmen, and sharply raised tensions between the nuclear-armed rivals.

Pakistan, under pressure from the U.S. to avoid a crisis that would divert Islamabad from battling the Taliban and al-Qaida on its Afghan frontier, has arrested two alleged masterminds of the assault.

On Thursday, it clamped down on an Islamic charity after the U.N. branded it a front for Lashkar-e-Taiba, the powerful Pakistan-based guerrilla group blamed for the Mumbai attacks.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said Friday that Pakistan firmly believed that its territory should not be used to commit any act of terrorism.

"However, our own investigations cannot proceed beyond a certain point without provision of credible information and evidence pertaining to Mumbai attacks," Qureshi said in a televised statement.

Indian authorities have released what they said were the names and Pakistani hometowns of the 10 gunmen who assailed India's commercial capital over three days. Having interrogated the lone gunman captured alive, Indian investigators allege that the gunmen were trained in camps in Pakistan.

Pakistan complains that its own investigation has had to rely on Indian news reports due to the lack of information coming from authorities.

However, Dawn, a respected Pakistani newspaper, reported Friday that its correspondents had tracked down the family of the surviving gunman.

The English-language daily quoted Amir Kasab as saying he was the father of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the 21-year-old suspect now held in India. Interviewed in his village of Faridkot, Amir Kasab said his son had disappeared around four years ago.

"I was in denial for the first couple of days, saying to myself it could not have been my son," the newspaper quoted him as saying. "Now I have accepted it."

The U.S. says Lashkar, which grew out of the 1980s resistance to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, has developed ties to al-Qaida. India accuses it of involvement in a string of terrorist attacks on its territory and alleges that Pakistani intelligence continues to back it — a charge vehemently denied in Islamabad.

However, Lashkar's main focus has been fighting Indian troops in Kashmir, the Himalayan region divided between Pakistan and India since independence from Britain in 1947 and the source of two of their three wars.

Islamic charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa says it cut its ties with Lashkar when the latter was banned by then-President Pervez Musharraf in 2002. But the U.N. on Wednesday said Jamaat-ud-Dawa was no more than a front.

The next day, Pakistani authorities put the charity's leader, Lashkar founder Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, under house arrest, sealed its offices around the country and ordered banks to freeze its assets.

The clampdown continued Friday, with police and officials from the charity reporting that dozens of its offices were closed in northwest and southern Pakistan. Attique Chohan, a Jamaat-ud-Dawa spokesman in North West Frontier Province, claimed scores of activists were arrested.

The U.S. is pressing Pakistan and India to cooperate in the investigation and resume a painstaking peace process that has lowered tensions without resolving the core dispute over Kashmir.

Deputy U.S. Secretary of State John Negroponte, arrived in New Delhi on Friday from Islamabad, the second trip by a top-ranking American official in a week.

Analysts warn that Pakistan's shaky civilian government could face a political backlash if it moves strongly against Jamaat-ud-Dawa under pressure from India and the U.S. and without making public the evidence against it.

In the first sign of public dissent, about 500 people marched to a U.N. office in Pakistan's portion of Kashmir on Friday chanting slogans against the U.N. and India, including "India your death came, Lashkar came, Lashkar came!"

The protesters, who included members of Pakistan's largest religious party, dispersed peacefully after reaching the U.N. office in the town of Muzaffarabad, where some 70 policemen were standing guard.

The attacks have undermined India-Pakistan relations — even in sports. On Friday, India's sports minister expressed opposition to the national cricket team going ahead with next month's scheduled tour of Pakistan in the wake of the attacks.

Sports Minister M.S. Gill said it was not the right time to play with Pakistan when "people from their soil were indulging in mass murder in India," the Press Trust of India reported.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa promotes a hard-line brand of Islam and is virulently anti-Indian. It also runs hundreds of schools and clinics across Pakistan and has helped the victims of two recent earthquakes.

However, analysts suspect that it may also be channeling funds and volunteers to Lashkar-e-Taiba, in addition to its still-vocal ideological support.

Also Friday, a police team arrived in northern India to seek a warrant to bring two suspected Lashkar militants to Mumbai for questioning.

Faheem Ansari and Sabauddin Ahmed, both Indian nationals, have been in jail in the city of Rampur since being detained in February after an attack there on a police station.

Ansari was found with maps of the sites attacked in Mumbai, while police say Ahmed was a Lashkar operative based in Nepal who used to shepherd gunmen across India's porous borders.
 
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GOP not only needs evidence but also needs to conduct joint interrogation with the arrested suspect. It would be good idea to run a DNA test of Amir and match it with that of his parents.
 
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The whole pakistani brigade here is shouting over rooftops, WHERE is EVIDENCE?
Some of the indian posters have responded ...
I dont understand this obsession with evidence for their [pakistan] terror activities. If other countries can find evidence about an organisations terror involvement, can't the country in which the outfit operates find evidence about those activities. For me it either shows that the country does not like to stop that terror outfits activities or it is incompetent.
...... if multiple countries can prove involvement of a certain organization in terrorism, how hard is it for the country in which that organization operates to find evidence against it.
If they cant find evidence, it must mean either global conspiracy on that organization or they are trying to cover for those organization
It seems that now the whole world believes in the complicity of elements within Pakistan & even suspect the support of rogue elements from ISI, but Pakistan & some posters here cannot accept it. Say what, there is a name for this attitude : OSTRICH like attitude.

The UNSC has banned the Pakistani terror organizations, with the active support of your dear pal & friend CHINA. Still u people find it difficult to accept this.

Today Pakistani newspaper Dawn carries report of the terrorist Ajmals kasav's agonized father talking with immense sadness to the dawn reporter and admitting the pictures beamed over the media was his son. He has called the people who snatched Ajmal from him, his enemies. I am sure still people here will not be convinced, because as someone was telling here, you can only wake up a person who is really sleeping, NOT one who's is pretending to be!

Now Pakistani posters putting forth a reciprocal blame on India's (RAW) terrorism on Pakistan, as a strategic ploy can do well to remember that, it is a position only taken up by some in Pakistan. No one else in the whole world has supported that view, not even your beloved china. But the entire world is behind India's claim, and want Pakistan to behave properly. Nobody is shouting at India, Pakistan is everybody's bad boy. Now people with reason left, should take a pause & try to reflect on that, & why that happened? Why Pakistan is so ISOLATED now? If you are not myopic, you can understand that it is your own doing over the past few decades. (Not any Indian contribution there, other than standing up for us).

The people who are not yet accepting & are still clambering for evidence, will do well to read Irfan Hussains column "Facing the Truth" in the Pak daily Dawn, a week back.
http:/dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20080312.htm Some salient excerpts:-
Over the last few years, I have travelled to several countries across four continents. Everywhere I go, I am asked why Pakistan is now the focal point of Islamic extremism and terrorism, and why successive governments have allowed this cancer to fester and grow. As a Pakistani, it is obviously embarrassing to be put on the spot, but I can see why people everywhere are concerned. In virtually every Islamic terrorist plot, whether it is successful or not, there is a Pakistani angle. Often, foreign terrorists have trained at camps in the tribal areas; others have been brainwashed in madressahs; and many more have been radicalised by the poisonous teachings of so-called religious leaders.
Madeline Albright, the ex-US secretary of state, has called Pakistan ‘an international migraine’, saying it was a cause for global concern as it had nuclear weapons, terrorism, religious extremists, corruption, extreme poverty, and was located in a very important part of the world. While none of this makes pleasant reading for a Pakistani, Ms Albright’s summation is hard to refute. Often, the truth is painful, but most Pakistanis refuse to see it. Instead of confronting reality, we are in a permanent state of denial. This ostrich-like posture has made things even worse.

Regarding presenting evidence: Real evidence will never be bandied about in news papers & forums at this stage. Not for you & me. What we get is tit bits from investigative news reporters, what happens in whole public-view (tv), engineered-leaks & circumstantial. Now regarding sharing of evidence formally with Pakistan, I dont think that is simple & going to happen anytime soon. The reason being there is a trust deficit between our countries. AM was indicating a similar view here for some other query.
Actually it is more of a reflection of the distrust that exists with respect to the perceived existential enemy on each side.

A point in hand is what happened to the evidence shared by US to Pakistan regarding WoT in Afghanistan. I will be quoting from an illuminating southasian analysis by BhaskarRoy.
Full article : http:/southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers30%5Cpaper2959.html
In August this year, US President George W. Bush appraised visiting Pakistan Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani that elements in the ISI were sharing actionable intelligence provided by the CIA with the Taliban and Al Qaeda. This helped these militants to avoid pin-pointed attacks. CIA Chief Mike Mullen handed over a dossier to Gilani about the ISI’s links with the militants, and concrete evidence of the ISI’s involvement in the July attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul in which the Indian Military Attache and a promising diplomat died. The Americans also made it clear that Army Chief Gen. Asfaq Kayani would have been aware of this operation carried out on the ground by Taliban fighters.

Since then, it appears the US has not been sharing any important counter-terrorism operation with the ISI or even the Pakistani army, resorting mainly to attacks by drones armed with hell-fire missiles.
Pakistan’s offer of joint investigation hence is clearly not acceptable. Such collaboration involve exchange of intelligence with ISI and Pakistan’s CID and IB. This is a total no, no. Even the US has stopped exchange of intelligence with ISI and the Pakistani army. The position taken by Pakistan is unfortunate, but nothing new. No amount of evidence is going to suffice because the evidence will be rejected. We have faced this same stone walling effect earlier.
What is being asked of the Pakistani government is to act, and act fast and decisively to bring the perpetrators of this crime to justice. There is too much empirical evidence available that the terrorists were trained in and launched from, Pakistan’s soil, for any denial. India’s demand from the Pakistani government is to match its words of sentiment and empathy and deliver the terrorists and their godfathers. This is the least that India could ask for from Pakistan. The Pakistani government would also prove its credentials to the world, and its own legitimacy to the people of Pakistan if it responds positively. The Pakistani media must also try and see the truth and refrain from protesting that India has no proof that the Mumbai terrorists came from Pakistan. They can create a public opinion, but it will finally go the way the post “9/11” arguments went. There is a hundred mile long proved and documented record of Pakistan based terrorism from “9/11” onwards. The Pakistani media would do well to take these facts into consideration before they deny any involvement of Pakistani based terrorists in Mumbai. It would do Pakistan a lot of good eventually.
 
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The whole pakistani brigade here is shouting over rooftops, WHERE is EVIDENCE?
Some of the indian posters have responded ...

It seems that now the whole world believes in the complicity of elements within Pakistan & even suspect the support of rogue elements from ISI, but Pakistan & some posters here cannot accept it. Say what, there is a name for this attitude : OSTRICH like attitude.

The UNSC has banned the Pakistani terror organizations, with the active support of your dear pal & friend CHINA. Still u people find it difficult to accept this.

Today Pakistani newspaper Dawn carries report of the terrorist ajmals kasav's father talking with immense sadness to the dawn reporter and admitting about his son (owning up based on his photograph & other news reports). I am sure still people here will not be convinced, because as someone was telling here, you can only wake up a person who is really sleeping, NOT one who's is pretending to be!

Now Pakistani posters putting forth a reciprocal blame on India's (RAW) terrorism on Pakistan, as a strategic ploy can do well to remember that, it is a position only taken up by some in Pakistan. No one else in the whole world has supported that view, not even your beloved china. But the entire world is behind India's claim, and want Pakistan to behave properly. Nobody is shouting at India, Pakistan is everybody's bad boy. Now people with reason left, should take a pause & try to reflect on that, & why that happened? Why Pakistan is so ISOLATED now? If you are not myopic, you can understand that it is your own doing over the past few decades. (Not any Indian contribution there, other than standing up for us).

The people who are not yet accepting & are still clambering for evidence, will do well to read Irfan Hussains column "Facing the Truth" in the Dawn, a week back.
http:/dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20080312.htm Some salient excerpts:-Quotes from the article in Pak national daily Dawn by Sr Columnist Irfan Hussain.

Regarding presenting evidence: Real evidence will never be bandied about in news papers & forums at this stage. Not for you & me. What we get is tit bits from investigative news reporters, what happens in whole public-view (tv), engineered-leaks & circumstantial. Now regarding sharing of evidence formally with Pakistan, I dont think that is simple & going to happen anytime soon. The reason being there is a trust deficit between our countries. AM was indicating a similar view here for some other query.

A point in hand is what happened to the evidence shared by US to Pakistan regarding WoT in Afghanistan. I will be quoting from an illuminating southasian analysis by BhaskarRoy.
Full article : http:/southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers30%5Cpaper2959.html
The whole world can believe anything, but they need to provide PROOF of guilt.
 
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