Ukraine tells EU leaders: Prepare for war with Russia

[tower9]

It might be still there as the successor of the USSR (whatever that means), but it does not hold the same amount of power to defend its interests. And it holds no control over the lost territories. Those territories no longer belong to Russia (the successor of the Soviet Union). If those lost territories want to join NATO, what can Russia do about it?

Let's say that you have a family and I sign a deal with you that I will not do business with your family without your permission as the head of the household. If somehow your wife ends up divorcing you, can you stop your wife or your children from doing business with me? Can you blame me if I do business with them? Same story.

That's what happens when you get zogged by letting an infiltrator like Yeltsin in under the cloak of MUH DEMOCRACY.

 

[QWECXZ]

That's what happens when you get zogged by letting an infiltrator like Yeltsin in under the cloak of MUH DEMOCRACY.

That, and decades of refraining from playing a role in international politics, hoping that they would leave you alone.

I mean look at Russia's behavior in the 21st century, after the Yeltsin period and during the golden period of Putin where things started to recover from the mess it was in 1990s. Do you see Russia as an influential player that can be counted on as a reliable partner? A lot of people don't.

At least the United States tries to look reliable. That's much more than what Russia has done in recent years.

 

[vostok]

It might be still there as the successor of the USSR (whatever that means), but it does not hold the same amount of power to defend its interests. And it holds no control over the lost territories. Those territories no longer belong to Russia (the successor of the Soviet Union). If those lost territories want to join NATO, what can Russia do about it?

Let's say that you have a family and I sign a deal with you that I will not do business with your family without your permission as the head of the household. If somehow your wife ends up divorcing you, can you stop your wife or your children from doing business with me? Can you blame me if I do business with them? Same story.

Leader of USA have promised to the leader of Russia not not expand NATO Eastward of Germany. Simple as that. No need for allegories.

 

[Abid123]

"Ukraine tells EU leaders: Prepare for war with Russia"

As if the coward EU leaders have guts to fight a war against Russia.

 

[QWECXZ]

Leader of USA have promised to the leader of Russia not not expand NATO Eastward of Germany. Simple as that. No need for allegories.

Well, I'm afraid that's not how agreements work. Russia also has promised a lot of things to a lot of people. Most of them never came true.

 

[Battlion25]

That's what happens when you get zogged by letting an infiltrator like Yeltsin in under the cloak of MUH DEMOCRACY.

Yeltsin was simply the worst thing that has happened to them in across to the US and NATO in general he gave to many concessions

 

[vostok]

Well, I'm afraid that's not how agreements work. Russia also has promised a lot of things to a lot of people. Most of them never came true.

If agreements with the West do not work, than let them attack Russian and see what happens.

 

[tower9]

That, and decades of refraining from playing a role in international politics, hoping that they would leave you alone.

I mean look at Russia's behavior in the 21st century, after the Yeltsin period and during the golden period of Putin where things started to recover from the mess it was in 1990s. Do you see Russia as an influential player that can be counted on as a reliable partner? A lot of people don't.

At least the United States tries to look reliable. That's much more than what Russia has done in recent years.

I disagree. The US hasn't looked reliable for a long time. The US says one thing and does another nearly every day.

Putin has put his money where his mouth is in places like Syria. I don't doubt he means it about the Ukraine as well.

 

[QWECXZ]

If agreements with the West do not work, than let them attack Russian and see what happens.

Well, the thing is that they do not need to militarily attack Russia to execute their plans. You just said it yourself. They advanced towards Russia's borders without battles. The picture you posted yourself is very telling

 

[QWECXZ]

I disagree. The US hasn't looked reliable for a long time. The US says one thing and does another nearly every day.

Putin has put his money where his mouth is in places like Syria. I don't doubt he means it about the Ukraine as well.

Yes, but only when Syria had already proven to be able to resist in the civil war. They entered Syria in 2015 after Gen. Soleimani convinced Putin that the benefits of joining the war trumps its risks and Assad was ready to give concessions to secure his victory. Iran supported Syria through the hardest times alone for 4 years. They didn't enter Syria in 2011. Did they?

They betrayed Iraq in 2003 by voting yes to resolution 1441, betrayed Iran 4 times in the UNSC by voting yes to nuclear sanctions, blocked the S-300 deal from going through when Iran needed air defense systems to defend our nuclear sites, did nothing but oral condemnation about Libya, do I need to say more?

Russia has always sucked up to the West after the fall of the Soviet Union, hoping that they would leave her alone because it knows that it does no longer hold the prowess of the Soviet Union. Even Putin attempted to mend ties with Europe during the tandemocracy period (aka Medvedev's presidency).

And to be honest, the chance of Russia actually initiating a war with Ukraine is zero in my opinion. The only thing that I am worried about is that the stupidity of the Ukrainian leadership and their irrational tone would cause a conflict. I am not really worried about Russia being the initiator of the war without Ukrainian provocation.

 

[Titanium100]

The only thing that is on the line is the supposed invincibility of NATO. That it can keep invading others spaces with no recourse. They are afraid that this aura of invincibility will be shattered and then member states, most of whom are weak little beta countries, would feel some insecurity that their alpha wolf is not as strong as they thought.

This is the problem with overreach. When you have so much hubris you start making huge mistakes. NATO should've been satisfied with its original form and then the sense of invincibility would not have been lost.

You nailed it with that first analogy.. They have just overgrown there is nothing wrong with ambitions at the end of the day but right now they are facing critical push back and decline because as soon as the collapse of the Soviet union they started to expand politically and influence wise but now it seems like we have new players entering the arena and the world constantly changes.

Russia setting Ukraine as new redlines hurts them badly without exaggeration all tho I don't see an outright miscalculation occuring here but it will become frozen and stagnated Russia will keep these 114.000 troops on that border and Ukraine will keep the build up and they will keep selling arms to it to sort of boost Ukraine the escalation will keep flaring up from time to time but eventually down the line 15-20 years in the future it will come to a head collision if the world economy suddenly crashes due to natural disasters or other issues this will open the world political stage to change wide open which Russia will seize the opportunity to end the Ukraine meance but simultaneously Germany, France and the others will deploy when it is the endgame. The EU knows at this point it will eventually have to fight Russia once the world economy crashes

 

[vostok]

Well, the thing is that they do not need to militarily attack Russia to execute their plans. You just said it yourself. They advanced towards Russia's borders without battles. The picture you posted yourself is very telling

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On your place I would not be so glad about Western victories. Without Russia West will destroy Iran and other few remaining independent countries next day. Russia's nuclear arsenal is the main thing that separates our world from American all-Earth Empire.

 

[QWECXZ]

On your place I would not be so glad about Western victories. Without Russia West will destroy Iran and other few remaining independent countries next day.

Not really. We do not give a rat *** about any of the sides in this conflict and it will not affect us a tiny bit.

And we do not think of Russia as a reliable partner for obvious reasons that I explained in my last post. Our defense capabilities come from within our country, not Russia. If anything, a weaker Russia may actually be better for us because we can get better deals. And it may wake them up from thinking that they can satisfy the Western greed by betraying their few allies in the world.

 

[vostok]

Not really. We do not give a rat *** about any of the sides in this conflict and it will not affect us a tiny bit.

And we do not think of Russia as a reliable partner for obvious reasons that I explained in my last post. Our defense capabilities come from within our country, not Russia. If anything, a weaker Russia may actually be better for us because we can get better deals. And it may wake them up from thinking that they can satisfy the Western greed by betraying their few allies in the world.

They will nuke you next day after Russia's defeat. And all your weapons will not help you.

 

[tower9]

Not really. We do not give a rat *** about any of the sides in this conflict and it will not affect us a tiny bit.

And we do not think of Russia as a reliable partner for obvious reasons that I explained in my last post. Our defense capabilities come from within our country, not Russia. If anything, a weaker Russia may actually be better for us because we can get better deals. And it may wake them up from thinking that they can satisfy the Western greed by betraying their few allies in the world.

I don't agree with your perspectives but ok.