Ukraine Prepares For War. Troops on High Alert

[Armstrong]

The Soviet Union and the Russian Empire were also internationally recognized states. Why did the same international community recognized their decay and those "state" that came out?

Because they did so as per 'International Law' - A mutually agreed upon legal contract between sovereign states that establishes how they would or would not behave with respect to the rest of the world !

Because otherwise you've got anarchy & every country going about doing whatever they please without anything to reign them in; if Russia thought she had a case against Ukraine she should've proceeded accordingly not like this....not through military interventionism !

Also by that logic every Non-Russian Area attached to Russia could break away, if they could & then claim 'They didn't do anything wrong' !

I'm no a Legal Expert of any kind but I'm sure @flamer84 is more than competent to impress upon us the legality or illegality of the Russian Invasion in the light of International Law !

 

[flamer84]

Now the only thing i find wrong with you is the Barrage of personal attacks that you can make against a person just because he has an opinion which is contrary to yours. The nonsense that your sprout makes you look like an extremist.. Learn to talk to people , people have different opinions , hoping for their harm just because he thinks differently makes you as much as a lunatic as those Alquida /Taliban folks ....

Nice comparison.You're a taliban for disliking traitors who actively aid foreign forces to dismantle their country.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The Soviet Union and the Russian Empire were also internationally recognized states. Why did the same international community recognized their decay and those "state" that came out?

"international community / the civilized world " is mainly described by America and its Western European allies they decide what is right and wrong , when it suits them they back the dictators and apartheid monarchies and when it suits them they preach democracy. their Nobel prize for a warmongering president is just another joke.

I dont loose any sleep over what the "international community" (read America and Britain) moral stand point is their recognition means jack all. its might is right the universal law of nature.
I am not a warmonger I want peace in Ukraine and I hope whatever happens, it is in the best interest of the people of that country without the expense of any ethnicity.

 

[Armstrong]

Tell me, do you keep in the right of Pakistan to defend Kashmiris?

Yes we do & I am an ethnic Kashmiri myself !

However we proceeded as per 'International Law' & took the matter before the United Nations where it was declared a Disputed Territory between two sovereign states & recognized the Kashmiri Right of Self-Determination; unfortunately we do not posses the means to force India's hand nor they to force ours & each side maintains that they are in the 'right' on the Kashmir Issue & so it lingers on !

 

[Hakan]

Islamist jihadists always takes imperialist side. Russia needs to deport them back to torkey or wherever they come from.

Thats why they will fight because of people with your mentality.
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@LaBong this goes into the legal details.

 

[LaBong]

Like I said a few pages back - I don't condone American Adventurism but this is nothing more than Russian Expansionism either !

I don't know whether they did or they didn't orchestrate this but the Government is gone....the interim Government is here & the succeeding elections would've established once & for all where the majority of Ukraine stands !

How is the givt gone, just because the protestors managed to occupy Kiev? Russia can say the govt is not gone but toppled by bunch of armed thugs and elected President of Ukrain himself asked for help. The interim government itself is illegitimate and clearly not supported by a large population of Ukraine and their first actions in power speaks volume about their ideology.

If tomorrow Talibans somehow managed to topple Govt of Pakistan and barricaded Islamabad and declared themselves as interim govt, would you just wait for the next election?

In fact election was to be held as early as December as agreed in a truce among ousted President of Ukraine and western powers.

Yes we do & I am an ethnic Kashmiri myself !

However we proceeded as per 'International Law' & took the matter before the United Nations where it was declared a Disputed Territory between two sovereign states & recognized the Kashmiri Right of Self-Determination; unfortunately we do not posses the means to force India's hand nor they to force ours & each side maintains that they are in the 'right' on the Kashmir Issue & so it lingers on !

Not true. You actually fought 4 wars against India starting from the very inception of our countries at 47. You only went to UN after being routed by Indian Army at 47's war.

 

[flamer84]

I'm no a Legal Expert of any kind but I'm sure @flamer84 is more than competent to impress upon us the legality or illegality of the Russian Invasion in the light of International Law !

There's nothing legal about it.Yanuk was constitutionally dismissed by by Parliament,an interim govern was put in place.

Russia argues that it's there to protect russian ethnics in Crimea.Protect from what ? There was no violence against them.Russia says it would have been.Well,on this "strong legal basis" i say we invade Belgium because i foresee in my geopolitical crystal ball future ethnic violence against french speakers.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Eh? USA and NATO do that every now and then.

I'm not a fan of Putin, however western block orchestrated this crisis when they helped to topple a democratically elected govt with the help of protestors even after the President signed a truce and called for early election, just because he cancelled a trade deal. And then went to power an unelected oligarch who stripped Russian of it's official language status. Putin got a bloody nose in geo-political war and returned the favour militarily.

And there's not much west can do here anyway against the injured bear. All these talks of sanctions are just bullcrap considering western Europe wouldn't like to be gas starved for rest of the winter.

totally agreed

reminds me of that leaked call of the Americans where Victoria Nuland (US diplomat says "Fuc the EU")
they are pretty much deep in creating the conflict here and Putin has responded

now if that response was what the Americans actually anticipated and wanted or not is not clear to me
only time will tell

 

[Ayush]

hey @Marshmallow what's your stand on this whole ukraine russia spat?

 

[Armstrong]

You think Russia would tolerate a Pro EU/west govt. in its doorstep considering America wanted to make a missile base there ? Nop..not at all..... Russia is looking after their interests , The whole thing was started by the west Russia has no option but to respond in kind... they can't sit quietly ...

How do they propose to solve this now ?

Through an Invasion of Ukrainian Sovereign Land ?

How would that help ? When even those Ukrainians who were probably sitting on the 'fence' on this one would be anything but Pro-Russia after the Invasion of their Country !

Russia should've built fraternal ties with Ukraine instead of creating problems for it or aggressively posturing against it because this isn't the first time Russia has interfered in the Internal Affairs of Ukraine !

 

[vostok]

Because they did so as per 'International Law' - A mutually agreed upon legal contract between sovereign states that establishes how they would or would not behave with respect to the rest of the world !

Because otherwise you've got anarchy & every country going about doing whatever they please without anything to reign them in; if Russia thought she had a case against Ukraine she should've proceeded accordingly not like this....not through military interventionism !

Also by that logic every Non-Russian Area attached to Russia could break away, if they could & then claim 'They didn't do anything wrong' !

I'm no a Legal Expert of any kind but I'm sure @flamer84 is more than competent to impress upon us the legality or illegality of the Russian Invasion in the light of International Law !

All the decisions that were taken in 1917 and 1991 - were taken with law mistakes. By the law of the Russian Empire territories did not have any rights to leave Impire. By the law of USSR republics had that right - but the USSR was divided without complying with the necessary formalities. The main thing at the time was the West to recognize the collapse - was it legitimate or not nobody cared .
Sooner or later, historians and lawyers will evaluate the events and justice will be restored .
Russia has the right to protect its citizens and it's compatriots. Especially in those regions where the Russian majority.

 

[Marshmallow]

hey @Marshmallow what's your stand on this whole ukraine russia spat?

which spat?

 

[vostok]

Yes we do & I am an ethnic Kashmiri myself !

However we proceeded as per 'International Law' & took the matter before the United Nations where it was declared a Disputed Territory between two sovereign states & recognized the Kashmiri Right of Self-Determination; unfortunately we do not posses the means to force India's hand nor they to force ours & each side maintains that they are in the 'right' on the Kashmir Issue & so it lingers on !

If you recognize the right of Pakistani to defend Kashmiris - why not recognize Russia's right to defend Russian?

 

[Armstrong]

How is the givt gone, just because the protestors managed to occupy Kiev? Russia can say the govt is not gone but toppled by bunch of armed thugs and elected President of Ukrain himself asked for help. The interim government itself is illegitimate and clearly not supported by a large population of Ukraine and their first actions in power speaks volume about their ideology.

If tomorrow Talibans somehow managed to topple Govt of Pakistan and barricaded Islamabad and declared themselves as interim govt, would you just wait for the next election?

In fact election was to be held as early as December as agreed in a truce among ousted President of Ukraine and western powers.

The Parliament of Ukraine dismissed him after his Anti-Protest Laws !

If the Taliban can managed to get elected than they are more than welcome to gather support & dismiss the Parliament in a constitutional manner !

Not true. You actually fought 4 wars against India starting from the very inception of our countries at 47. You only went to UN after being routed by Indian Army at 47's war.

Not really besides you went to the UN in the December of '48 - We did not !

If you recognize the right of Pakistani to defend Kashmiris - why not recognize Russia's right to defend Russian?

Because Crimea is not a disputed territory - its an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine; you could always go to International Court of Justice or Arbitration (whichever is more appropriate) to deal with the issue if you think you've got a strong case !

 

[Star Wars]

How do they propose to solve this now ?

Through an Invasion of Ukrainian Sovereign Land ?

How would that help ? When even those Ukrainians who were probably sitting on the 'fence' on this one would be anything but Pro-Russia after the Invasion of their Country !

Russia should've built fraternal ties with Ukraine instead of creating problems for it or aggressively posturing against it because this isn't the first time Russia has interfered in the Internal Affairs of Ukraine !

Its not an invasion as not a single bullet has been fired ,
The Autonomous Crimean P.M asked for Russia's help after which Russia responded in contrary to "Russian declared war" claims ..
As i said , other regions like Donestk and 3 other regions in Ukraine are looking for Autonomy...
A referendum will be held in which case they can either separate or stay with Ukraine...
Once a referendum is held , the new seceded territories will no longer be under the Budapest memorandum . Then Putin can either join them back into the empire as an Autonomous region or do something else..

Atleast thats what i expect ..there wont be a full scale military invasion ...Maybe Russians moving in after the succession and the new Leaders of Autonomous regions asks Moscow for help