Ugly ceremonies "WAGAH"; traitors galore

[Awesome]

You miss a very important point.

Those who perform these ceremonies are not representing their own self, at least on this side of the border.

Here, they represent me and many other Indians like me who despise this bandar-ka-naach to the core.

I couldn't care less if they dance on the border without their uniforms.

That uniform means something.

The actions you call bandar ka naach, all have a distinctive meaning.

You have obviously not seen the parade and have not felt the beauty of it all. You are forgetting one very important thing that the uniforms do 4 very important things daily, all symbolic but symbolism is important.

1. Ensure the Sun never sets on the nation's flag. Every morning it is raised at dawn, and before dusk it is wrapped and sealed and then repeated.
2. Officially closing operations for the wagah border.
3. Acknowledge the standing hostilities between India and Pakistan through their animated gestures
4. The most important thing - the ceremony ends with the shaking of hands on a daily basis between India and Pakistan before the gates are closed between them. Symbolizing lines of communication to remain open despite the hostilities.

A little respect, would also go a long way in keeping discussions civil. Bandar ka naach is no way to describe the duties of a soldier.

 

[Icarus]

So you also agree with me that this is nothing but just a way to pander to the vicarious voyeurs on both sides of the border.

No, I mean that if India does start such ceremonies with it's other neighbours for the sake of equality(as you suggest), it will fail to catch on because the friction between a Pak-India situation has an importance of it's own. Let's for argument sake, stop this ceremony, will the same feeling not prevail during a Pak-India cricket match? A Pak-India Hocky match? Even a Pak-India billiards tournament is an edge of the seat competition just because the 'Traditional Rivals' are head to head. Rivalry is hard-wired into us, you can't eliminate it. That is why it is not a good enough excuse to finish this ceremony, nothing worthwhile will come of it.

 

[alibaz]

I absolutely agree with the author. This is nothing but a mockery of the Drill Manual. We, Indians as well as Pakistanis, have made a laughing stock of ourselves in the eyes of the world. They think those 'Jawans' are a bunch of immature dancing clowns who look so stupid it's not even funny, as some of my foreign friends had mentioned to me a few weeks back after witnessing that nonsensical parody on the border.

Why do we continue to behave in this fashion? When are we going to grow up?

Definitely this is not the drill followed in any of two militaries but this is the tradition at Wagha only where soldiers represent their countries with utmost pride in front of thousands of people from both sides. What is your opinion about people running in streets and bull follows them or people throwing hundred of tons of tomatoes on each and you can find many more example. Everyone has very different cultures and traditions which may look very odd to me so feel proud or be quiet cause thousands of people like it and they come to see this ceremony every day.

 

[OrionHunter]

if you are so much concerned about international image and wasteful practices then best thing to do is agree together to demilitarise Siachin thats an absolute waste of money and men on both sides.

'Agree together to demilitarize Siachin'? Can that be done? Of course it can. In fact the withdrawal from Siachen (demilitarizing as you say) was almost done but for the Pakistani side that later refused to authenticate the new AGPL on maps under pressure from vested interests.

You guys don't want to authenticate the AGPL on the map but at the same time want us to withdraw from Siachen. Irfan bhai, you can't have the cake and eat it too, right? It's give and take. In other words, it looks like this dispute will continue till the cows come home. And that sucks! Doesn't it?

 

[pak-marine]

You miss a very important point.

Those who perform these ceremonies are not representing their own self, at least on this side of the border.

Here, they represent me and many other Indians like me who despise this bandar-ka-naach to the core.

I couldn't care less if they dance on the border without their uniforms.

That uniform means something.

Well termed bandar ka nach lol ..

 

[Sugarcane]

Well termed bandar ka nach lol ..

Dear i take it as offense when you talk about my soldiers like this, anyway you are entitled to express you feelings

 

[Leader]

Everybody knows that its all in good fun. Even at the height of tensions this ceremony has gone as is, so its okay. Its like a big cricket match being played at the border where both sides win and the audience gets a free show of all the bravado that is expected against each other.

I would say 99% of the people walk off happy from the venue.

O what a great idea just clicked....

why not make a Stadium or Sports Complex, where players from both sides can play with each other, and audience can sit opposite sides to each other and support their teams-- call it a neutral land, be it cricket, tennis, boxing or whatever, entry to which be without passport or travel document.

wont people enjoy it? I think the Indo-Pak rivalry would just reach new level and with all the fun ??

 

[Kaniska]

I don't know what's the problem with ceremony, If you don't like don't watch. I love to go there and shout PAKISTAN ZINDABAD if you are annoyed with this word than it's not my problem - you can go to some musical concert and do some monkey dance there.

Dude...Donot think that you are the only people to say your country Zindabad....thousands of fools from both the sides will assemble from both the sides to say Zindabad to the respective countries...What is the big deal..By saying zindabad...a country is not projected powerful not any thing great about.....World knows about each country how much powerful it is and we, India and Pakistn knows each other more than any one else...

 

[livingdead]

Being Indian, I will blame GoI for not changing the ceremony, we can make it more friendly.
I would have less issue if this happened in delhi, because it wont be seen as hostile to a specific country.

We are not at war with each other now. We cant stop jingoism spread by private ventures (like movies, racist groups) but this is govt sponsored and we should stop it( or at least tone down it)

 

[Sugarcane]

Dude...Donot think that you are the only people to say your country Zindabad....thousands of fools from both the sides will assemble from both the sides to say Zindabad to the respective countries...What is the big deal..By saying zindabad...a country is not projected powerful not any thing great about.....World knows about each country how much powerful it is and we, India and Pakistn knows each other more than any one else...

There are fools on both side who see 11 monkeys in cricket stadium and jumping like idiots and 100s of thousands stick to a dumb box for whole day to watch these monkeys and doing nothing, what a waste of time - we must educate these majority of fools first, isn't it?

Yeah I AM FOOL AND LOVE TO SAY PAKISTAN ZINDABAD AND FEEL PROUD ON IT, however feel free not to say that for your respective country if you think you looks fool saying this, i don't have any problem with that.

 

[Sugarcane]

Being Indian, I will blame GoI for not changing the ceremony, we can make it more friendly.
I would have less issue if this happened in delhi, because it wont be seen as hostile to a specific country.

We are not at war with each other now. We cant stop jingoism spread by private ventures (like movies, racist groups) but this is govt sponsored and we should stop it( or at least tone down it)

Yeh sure, ask your government to move flag from Wahga Border to Dehli or discontinue this ceremony nobody is forcing you to participate in it.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

No.. it is between 1 to 3 year ..

sorry I didnt mean to steer it to that subject it was just an example that we can live without
you see as I predicted
fanboys on both sides will give reasons why that status quo should hold.

I am really disappointed that some of us agree with the constipated author who calls soldiers as tin heads in his usual posts but here some members join with him mocking the turban and its arc comparing it with cockerels is self insulting actually.

just warning you guys, this Kamran guy hates everything about the army, he knows he can get away with it and he writes about it.
to date I have failed to see anything he would have written about the ruthless murder of Soloman Taseer, or the women victims of acid attacks. And the mistreatment of minorities.

this guy is smart and he knows his limits. maybe he has specific dictation to stay focused. now Americans have openly announced funding the Pakistani media and carving a piece for their soft image projection. I will happily eat my hat if that person is not found to be associated with that program.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

A number of countries have distinctive military parades and traditions that may seem weird to some but are a deep-rooted part of their heritage and embraced by the people. So is the case with the Wagah ceremony. It's unique and we here at Pakistan love it, I can't get why Indians on PDF despise it so much because I NEVER saw a chair empty on the Indian side either. Anyway, here are some other distinct military parades around the world, being different does not make you a freak, it just makes you unique and if you fear being unique then you will probably lose your identity.

Greek Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/runfuret/mil_uniforms/GREEK_EVZONES.jpg


The Swiss guard in Vatican City:
http://www.profimedia.si/photo/swiss-guards-in-plumed-helmets-and-striped/profimedia-0011531067.jpg

Who can forget the change of guards at Buckingham palace, people go to all lengths to try and make these guys smile:
http://www.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/large_652x488_scaled/photos/military-bands-arrive-buckingham-palace-perform-barack-obama_702165.jpg




Exactly, they announce on both sides that people are representing their nations and are requested not to do anything to tarnish their country's image. That's enough to make even the most crazy jingo-maniac act like the gentleman!

thanks for quoting and giving other examples. I wanted to do the same but then I thought why bother with a brick wall.
those who have made up their mind wont agree if you give example of every single country.


some Indians hate it because it is associated with Pakistan
some Pakistanis hate it because it is associated with Pakistan army
Some Pakistanis hate it because thats how they are brought up
blaming their existence, their environment & their parents as well.

 

[DGMO]

The actions you call bandar ka naach, all have a distinctive meaning.

You have obviously not seen the parade and have not felt the beauty of it all. You are forgetting one very important thing that the uniforms do 4 very important things daily, all symbolic but symbolism is important.

1. Ensure the Sun never sets on the nation's flag. Every morning it is raised at dawn, and before dusk it is wrapped and sealed and then repeated.
2. Officially closing operations for the wagah border.
3. Acknowledge the standing hostilities between India and Pakistan through their animated gestures
4. The most important thing - the ceremony ends with the shaking of hands on a daily basis between India and Pakistan before the gates are closed between them. Symbolizing lines of communication to remain open despite the hostilities.

A little respect, would also go a long way in keeping discussions civil. Bandar ka naach is no way to describe the duties of a soldier.

Nail. On. Head.

I was there in May 2010, was fortunate enough to have VIP seats, and have 'backstage' access after the ceremony ended. I can certainly say that the atmosphere was nationalistic, full of passion, and rather celebratory.

I could see the smiles on the faces of both people. It was parade or circus like, and the people from both sides who had come to see this spectacle were revelling in it. There was no malice in the air, no one baying for blood.

But I found that the handshakes at the end of the ceremony garnered the most applause and cheers, as if that's what everyone was waiting for. That after the foot-stomping, the songs from both sides, this is what really mattered. No one booed the handshakes, no one cried foul. It was a sign of mutual respect which everyone gave a approving nod to.

Even up close with the BSF soldiers backstage, standing a few yards away and taking pics, there were smiles from them.

I came away thinking just how close we were to India, sadly just a bit of rope seperated us by acting as a 'border'. We should be grateful that it's not as tense or hate-filled as the South Korean-DPRK border.

On the whole it's a great experience, and one I'd recommend to anyone.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

its not a stupid ceremony, its a great ceremony in my opinion.