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U.S. to give Pakistan 12 Shadow Drones

rather than america carrying out the drone attacks. pakistan will be required and given instructions to execute such brutal attacks against innocent civilians. (since no one really knows who the terrorist and innocent civilians is..) hit and trial kind of method, and most of the time the terrorist are using innocent people as shields etc.. Pakistan will be essentially carrying out america's dirty work..... leading to further loathing of pakistan, within the pushtun population and intensifying troubles for pakistan....

No new major fronts are being created......positions established will be maintained in order to consolidate gains made from recent Army operations.

The Pakhtuns themselves are fed up of the militancy. In fact, they were the ones who are asking for military support. Pakhtun Pakistani citizens have suffered the most from the militancy and terrorism. That is why they are cooperating with Armed Forces.


What we REALLY need to focus on is ground intelligence, and giving the police sufficient training so that the Army doesn't need to maintain law and order in those areas. The former is the job of the civilian tribesmen and intelligence agencies; the latter is the job (and responsibility) of the Government of Pakistan.


Army medical, reconstruction and infrastructure related initiatives will continue in areas affected by the fighting.
 
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we wont get neither warrior nor predator.....at least not at this time. It wont happen without a strong lobbyist group; nor will it happen until US realizes how much their success lies in cooperation with Pakistan --and heeding to our demands.


We should focus on improving domestically produced unmanned aircrafts, with collaboration from friendly countries like Turkiye and China.
 
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Growler, if in 8 years they have not given, why do you expect or demand it now.

Leave it, we should concentrate for making our own and get the missiles from the Chinese, or any other good missile from the market.

The Chinese HJ-10 is in service and is said to be in the same league of Hellfire.

I hope and believe AWC would already be considering this option.

I fully concur. We should demand whatever we require, but not remain under the illusion that we will get the goodies. Pakistan should avoid the US where possible and opt for joint ventures with China. The JF-17 project should serve as a reminder of fruitful cooperation between two allies that share mutual interests. The end result is simply put satisfying to say the least. The Pakistani UAV industry should also be provided with the means to showcase their capability in this area. A UCAV isn't too much asked. I'm sure that if we seriously prioritise our willingness in producing a UCAV we can get there without too much fuss.
 
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Interesting development

Kiyani met the Saudi Ambassador yesterday after his meeting with Gates:

Chinese Ambassador meets Gen. Kayani

Saturday, 23 Jan, 2010 7:01 pm
ISLAMABAD : Ambassador of Peoples Republic of China Luo Zhaohui on Saturday visited General Headquarters and called on Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

The visiting dignitary remained with him for some time and discussed matters of mutual interest.

Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2010

xposted
 
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Beggars can't be choosers.

we have to carefully examine the deal, first what kind of conditions would accompany, meaning would the pakistani military be required take out americans targets if Yes? THAN a BIG NO

Second i think inspite what some people would like to boast about pakistani equipment, lets be honest most of it is Chinese borrowed tech. Even if the american models are older i believe we could study the technology and apply to hybrid UAV which would encompass both american and Chinese tech.

Third these drones contain extremely advance capability and tech which could be utilized in other technologies...

Fourth we have to sit down on the table and negotiate what pakistan needs.(stop barking against american which RAW has been taking advantage of) if not drones then please suggest what would be appropriate.. ????

Fifth america is our ally and we should support them, maybe it's financial kick back deal since america's economy hasn't been doing too well, If this same tech was offered to india would buy to appease the americans.... relationship is a two way a street.. try to be less selfish and constantly thinking of personal gain,
if we buy this tech maybe in the near future they might offer us better tech since we will able to take out terrorist and the relationship between ISI and CIA would improve (distrust would diminish) which RAW is working against ... it's not only about the tech but our national security and current threat both our countries are facing, externally and internally we have to build bridges in order to defeat our enemies .....

and if Possess better drones please enlighten us cuz i haven't heard about them...... why aren't we taking down TTP using such tech as of yet...
 
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Second i think inspite what some people will like to boast about pakistani equipment, lets be honest most of it is Chinese borrowed tech. Even if the american models are older i believe we could study the technology and apply to hybrid UAV which would encompass both american and Chinese tech.


Pakistan already possesses Falco UAV which is Western tech and easily surpasses the Shadow UAV in almost every imaginable way. The Americans will never provide Pakistan with superior tech that can be used as a study model. I think that we're underestimating our capabilities in this particular field. Whether we borrowed tech from China is really not the issue here. I firmly believe that Pakistan is able to come up with a workable solution.
 
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actually, it amazes me that apart from IDEAS expos, we never showcase our UAVs. I know it costs huge sums of money to transport them, set up the stalls etc. --but it may be money well spent.


From the U.S. perspective, they don't want to sell us technology they think we would use against india --or of course hand over the China for evaluation and duplication.

What they need to understand is that our troops don't drive around in armoured Humvees. They go on foot. In the hills, valleys and flatlands; they go knowing that anyday could be their last, but they follow their orders dutifully for the sake of Pakistan. The border areas with Afghanistan are a heaven for guerilla-type fighting. It will save us resources and give us huge tactical advantage if we can detect enemy positions from above and immediately deal with them on our own.

we need an armed system which can also have longer loiter times. Because quite frankly, 6 hours endurance time is absolute peanuts. It is inferior to what we already have.
 
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Beggars can't be choosers.

we have to carefully examine the deal, first what kind of conditions would accompany, meaning would the pakistani military be required take out americans targets if Yes? THAN a BIG NO

Second i think inspite what some people would like to boast about pakistani equipment, lets be honest most of it is Chinese borrowed tech. Even if the american models are older i believe we could study the technology and apply to hybrid UAV which would encompass both american and Chinese tech.

Third these drones contain extremely advance capability and tech which could be utilized in other technologies...

Fourth we have to sit down on the table and negotiate what pakistan needs.(stop barking against american which RAW has been taking advantage of) if not drones then please suggest what would be appropriate.. ????

Fifth america is our ally and we should support them, maybe it's financial kick back deal since america's economy hasn't been doing too well, If this same tech was offered to india would buy to appease the americans.... relationship is a two way a street.. try to be less selfish and constantly thinking of personal gain,
if we buy this tech maybe in the near future they might offer us better tech since we will able to take out terrorist and the relationship between ISI and CIA would improve (distrust would diminish) which RAW is working against ... it's not only about the tech but our national security and current threat both our countries are facing, externally and internally we have to build bridges in order to defeat our enemies .....

and if Possess better drones please enlighten us cuz i haven't heard about them...... why aren't we taking down TTP using such tech as of yet...

Unbelievable. :hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:
 
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Talking strictly about Pakistani members in this forum..we still have many opposite views of American policies in the region. Cant' we agree on one point? I have seen think tank members having different versions of American Policy. I think we should all agree on one point and from there a "meaningful" discussion will start.
Sir, you misunderstand the point of a forum and of the Think Tank. The point is not to conform, it is to figure things out on your own by looking at all views. You require flexibility and an openness to others' opinions, as long as they are within civil boundaries. Many here don't want to hear what the other side has to say, they want everyone to believe what they do (there is a certain self-proclaimed Doctor on this forum who is a prime example of this).

Simply put, Pak-US relationship is a very complex topic. The worst thing we can do is oversimplify it.

Regardless, this offer will not be accepted simply for the sake of keeping the Americans happy. If the Army chooses to accept it, then it might offer them some considerable advantage. If they reject it, then most members on this thread are right, it is "too little, too late".
 
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Growler, if in 8 years they have not given, why do you expect or demand it now.

Leave it, we should concentrate for making our own and get the missiles from the Chinese, or any other good missile from the market.

The Chinese HJ-10 is in service and is said to be in the same league of Hellfire.

I hope and believe AWC would already be considering this option.

I think its about time US is coming back to its senses. IMO for the first time US is finally thinking about giving us these technology. If this war is over within a year then good for us but US wont give us anything. And if it a long way maybe 5 more years then i am hell of sure that they will give us these systems.

Armed Turkish MALE UAV is the best option for PA but its gonna take time and at our expense.
 
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actually, it amazes me that apart from IDEAS expos, we never showcase our UAVs. I know it costs huge sums of money to transport them, set up the stalls etc. --but it may be money well spent.


From the U.S. perspective, they don't want to sell us technology they think we would use against india --or of course hand over the China for evaluation and duplication.

What they need to understand is that our troops don't drive around in armoured Humvees. They go on foot. In the hills, valleys and flatlands; they go knowing that anyday could be their last, but they follow their orders dutifully for the sake of Pakistan. The border areas with Afghanistan are a heaven for guerilla-type fighting. It will save us resources and give us huge tactical advantage if we can detect enemy positions from above and immediately deal with them on our own.

we need an armed system which can also have longer loiter times. Because quite frankly, 6 hours endurance time is absolute peanuts. It is inferior to what we already have.

You took the words out of my mouth. It's all about reducing the number of boots on the ground by the use of UCAVs. Not only is this kind of tech useful in gathering intel, but also very effective in taking out targets without minimal loss of troops on the ground. The most important aspect about UCAVs would be the durability and endurance. Having UCAVs that can loiter for long periods over suspected targets is essential. Additionally, having the ability to take out the acquired target is another must. This tech will truly be a force multiplier for PA.
 
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You took the words out of my mouth. It's all about reducing the number of boots on the ground by the use of UCAVs. Not only is this kind of tech useful in gathering intel, but also very effective in taking out targets without minimal loss of troops on the ground. The most important aspect about UCAVs would be the durability and endurance. Having UCAVs that can loiter for long periods over suspected targets is essential. Additionally, having the ability to take out the acquired target is another must. This tech will truly be a force multiplier for PA.


which model do you believe would best suit pakistan's need in the short and long term situation??
 
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Sir, you misunderstand the point of a forum and of the Think Tank. The point is not to conform, it is to figure things out on your own by looking at all views. You require flexibility and an openness to others' opinions, as long as they are within civil boundaries. Many here don't want to hear what the other side has to say, they want everyone to believe what they do (there is a certain self-proclaimed Doctor on this forum who is a prime example of this).

Simply put, Pak-US relationship is a very complex topic. The worst thing we can do is oversimplify it.

Regardless, this offer will not be accepted simply for the sake of keeping the Americans happy. If the Army chooses to accept it, then it might offer them some considerable advantage. If they reject it, then most members on this thread are right, it is "too little, too late".

Sir In my opinion by taking a larger look at the forum we should be able to judge the U.S. policies now. In my opinion it is better to know the facts and than discuss rather than discussing the policies and the solution never comes. One example is:

Why is the U.S. in Afghanistan? What actually happened in 1971? etc
There are many contradictions within Pakistani Members. In my opinion we should all know what the U.S. wants and how can we the forum members be helpful to serve our country. I think it will be more effective rather than bashing Indians and discussing the things of which the facts are unknown to us. This forum can be an effective think tank rather than bashing forum. It is a good forum but in my humble opinion there is a room of improvement. We can be more effective by empowering our youth and telling Pakistanis to join this forum.

"Sir, you misunderstand the point of a forum and of the Think Tank. The point is not to conform, it is to figure things out on your own by looking at all views.This was just my opinion."
In my opinion Think Tank, other members (members with good/accurate knowledge) should guide us so we can produce one paper instead of different papers with different versions by ourselves. This way we will be able to unite and can understand the facts. We Pakistani members should not fight with each other and unfortunately I sometimes also get into the mess with fellow countrymen. I hope some people will like my opinion.

It was my opinion.
Regards.
:pdf:
 
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We need to convince USA that the latest technology arms that it gives us will not be reverse engineered and nor shared with China and nor will they be deployed against the Indian border.

None of this technology is that sensitive that it requires a Congressional Mandate to be exported. This is not the F-22 Raptor.

Pakistan needs to make it clear to USA that its security is at stake by not giving Pakistan these weapons.
 
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Saturday, 23 January 2010
Safar 08, 1431

Offer of RQ-7 Shadow UAVs “Too little, too late”
d9351fc735bf1fde27597e18c67f8d7d.jpg
By Mariana Baabar

Pakistan military sources say they are not impressed by the offer of the United States to supply RQ-7 Shadow Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), as they already have superior quality UAVs, which they have upgraded, and which are in use. The disappointment is understandable since unlike the drones that fly and take out targets inside Pakistan’s FATA region, the ones being offered to Pakistan are unarmed, and commonly used for intelligence gathering.

Later, when DG ISPR Major General Athar Abbas was asked about the overall weapons being provided to Pakistan for counterinsurgency and other military supplies, he remarked, “Too little, too late”.

It was US Defence Secretary Robert Gates who, in a meeting with the media at the residence of the US ambassador, said the US was enhancing Pakistan’s intelligence capabilities. He said the offer comes because Islamabad had requested for them. “We have a lot of information on the Afghan side that we share ... we also help Pakistan build its own capacity. We will be providing them with UAVs (Shadow) together with equipment and training,” he said.

To a question whether the US was attaching any conditions to these UAVs, he replied, “I do not know”. In the past, the US was wary of passing on the drone technology to Pakistan as Islamabad could use it in areas other than it had specifically been given for.

One American journalist accompanying him asked about the possibility of stopping arms sale to India and Pakistan altogether. “We have to judge each country’s requirement on its own. We sell Pakistan F-16s and we sell India transport aircraft. We make a decision judiciously,” Gates replied.

Gates appeared relaxed with the questions being thrown at him by the local and US media but it was the ‘D’ word that he refused to entertain. Though several questions relating to US drones were asked, he shrugged them off and would not even give an answer as to whom in the US this question could be put.

Amongst the defence secretary’s aides in uniform that greeted the media before he arrived were those who offered their greetings in chaste Urdu and one of them also spoke excellent Pashto.

As if on cue, the Pakistan military’s announcement that it could not overstretch itself in fresh areas of operation also saw Gates admitting to a query that a ‘trust deficit’ existed.

“There is responsibility on both sides. From the US side, we turned away from Afghanistan in 1989. We could have remained engaged but we did not even try. Then the Pressler Amendment brought an end to military-to-military conversation for 12 years when we had no contacts. We cannot rebuild trust through rhetoric,” he said.

Turning to the present moment, Gates said that the US was deeply impressed with Pakistan’s military operations and the level of activity and clearing of areas.

“Very impressive. Pakistan is a sovereign state and makes its own decisions on future operations. The past year has been extraordinary. Let me put it this way. If we are in a car together, it is Pakistan in the driving seat with its foot on the accelerator. We are prepared to help and also express our condolences to the 3,000 Pakistani soldiers killed. General Kayani gave me a detailed briefing,” explained the defence secretary.

To a query about the Coalition Support Fund that has been held up and which Pakistan needs on an emergency basis, Gates replied, “It will come and we are also reviving $500 million deferred payment.”

He explained instances in the past where Pakistan’s procedures lacked proper documentation. “We are working with Pakistan on the documentation and will give it to Congress. We are working on it now and some people we are seeking to add to the US Embassy will help,” he said.

When a question of opening up dialogue with the Taliban inside Afghanistan was put to him, he replied, “Afghanistan has its own reconciliation and reintegration plan. It is how low-level Taliban can work in their own community. These are Taliban foot soldiers who work for money. As economic development proceeds and there is greater security, more and more foot soldiers will come back,” he pointed out. But he did not agree that there were any chances of the Taliban forming the next government in Kabul. However, he did say that there were conditions if they wanted a future political role.


rest of article available here:

ASIAN DEFENCE: Offer of Outdated RQ-7 Shadow UAVs “Too little, too late”
 
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