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U S strikes Abu Lais al Libi Killed

There is a vast majority (I am not talking of the people in uniform alone) in Pakistan, who do not think that the Taliban or the AQ is doing anything that is not acceptable to Islam.

You will find it is the complete opposite most people cannot stand them and hate them. Just pay a visit to Pakistan's biggest cities heck even rural areas and ask them whether they want Al Qaeda there see the response you get. Is doesn’t require a great deal of research as to why Islamic parties have never won anything substantial whenever free elections were held and yet you think people support the more extreme elements? Come on Ray...
 
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And Sir Ray your entire post itself shows Indian fear of Talibans’ coming into power in future as in that case India will lose its terror camps inside Afghanistan in shape of its consulates which she uses for fomenting terrorism inside Pakistan.

True, plus more importantly, India will lose its supply route to central asia from Chabahar with a central Taliban government. :)
 
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I am bit confused...was al-Libi not captured by pakistani army a while back,or was that another al-Libi.
 
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Taliban take a hit, but the fight goes on
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - With the killing of Abu Laith al-Libi this week, the Taliban have suffered their biggest loss since being ousted from power in 2001, and they are left without their finest military brain just two months before their spring offensive.

All the same, while there will undoubtedly be a short-term negative effect over the loss of the talisman commander, the Taliban have a groundswell of support in place that is unlikely to be affected in the longer term.

According to reports, Libi, 41, a Libyan, was killed on Monday in an attack by a US Predator drone in Mir Ali, a town in Pakistan's North Waziristan tribal area near the border with Afghanistan.

The US military placed Libi on its most wanted list in 2006, behind al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, his deputy Ayman al- Zawahiri and Taliban leader Mullah Omar. Libi had a reward of US$200,000 on his head following his involvement in the February 2007 bombing at Bagram airbase in Afghanistan during a visit by US Vice President Dick Cheney.

The Western press uniformly describe Libi as al-Qaeda's number three, but it was not his links to the group that made his name. He was the de facto commander in chief of the Afghan resistance against the occupation forces in Afghanistan and he was the main engine behind all of the Taliban's successful attacks, especially in the east of the country.

The strongly built Libi was a committed warrior for the cause of jihad in Afghanistan. Even Pakistani military officers acknowledged his guerrilla fighting skills and his ability to rally his men; they called him a "true mujahid".

On several occasions, Pakistan security forces had him cornered, but each time he managed to escape. He would then send messages to army officers, saying he could have caused havoc in their ranks but he would never fight against a Muslim and preferred to escape.


Taliban commander Mullah Dadullah, now killed, claimed the attack on Bagram last year, but Asia Times Online investigations at the time found it was Libi who had planned the attack. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) later confirmed this. Likewise, all major operations claimed by Afghan commanders, especially those led by Sirajuddin Haqqani, were in fact to the credit of Libi.

The common perception is that all Arabs fighting in Afghanistan belong to al-Qaeda. This is not the reality. Arabs are present in Afghanistan in several groups, and not necessarily part of al-Qaeda, as with Libi. He did cooperate with al-Qaeda but always took independent decisions. He was not known to be part of any international terror operations as he was fully committed to the fight against NATO in Afghanistan and to training fighters in modern techniques of guerrilla warfare.

Libi was the best instructor the Taliban ever had. He had established Shankiari training camp in Khost province which was destroyed by NATO in 2006. He trained Afghans in the use of anti-aircraft missiles, among many other skills.

He was not a scholar like Shiekh Essa, who incites people in the tribal areas to rebel against the Pakistani government. He was not a prophet of doom for the West, like Zawahiri, who often calls for the destruction of London and Washington.

Libi was a simple warrior who fought a defensive war (resistance) against NATO in Afghanistan and was fiercely against carrying out attacks on Pakistan.

He was a battlefield ideologue who lived with his men and fought in a foreign country, and the results of his efforts reverberated around the world.

The initial reaction is that Libi's death could result in a strengthening of the Takfiri ideologues in the Waziristan tribal areas. They believe in war against any non-practicing Muslims, which includes attacks on Pakistan. Libi had acted as a restraining influence on them. But for the Taliban, the focus remains fixed on Afghanistan.

NATO's commander in eastern Afghanistan, Major General David Rodriguez, recently said he did not expect the Taliban to mount a spring offensive this year as they wanted to focus their efforts on destabilizing the Pakistani government.

This is not the case. Mullah Omar made it clear by "sacking" Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud - who wanted to concentrate on Pakistan - that all efforts would be aimed at Afghanistan.

If anything, Libi's death could help ignite the spring offensive. Asia Times Online has learned that a Taliban delegation from the Afghan province of Helmand has arrived in South Waziristan. The purpose is to build bridges between various feuding factions and unite them for the spring offensive.

Pressure will even be brought to bear on Mehsud to shift to Afghanistan for a few months to end hostilities between the Pakistani security forces and his Mehsud tribe, which is under siege in South Waziristan.

Apart from Mehsud and a few other groups, all jihadi groups in the tribal areas have now struck peace deals with Pakistani security and are regrouping for the spring offensive.

By the end of last year, leading jihadi groups such as the Harkatul Mujahideen al-Aalmi, the Harkatul Ansaar, the Harkat-i-Jehad-i-Islami, the Ansarus Sunnah and the Ansarul Muslimoon had concentrated their human and material resources in the Waziristans in preparation for a renewed offensive in Afghanistan.

Each of these organization has independent weapons stockpiles, millions of dollars in funds and hundreds of fighters, in addition to secure supply lines for further funds.

The legend of the Faqir of Api (who defeated the British Indian Army in Waziristan and then the Pakistani army in the 1950s) is alive in one of his descendents, Hafiz Gul Bahadur of North Waziristan.

Gul was the deputy chief of the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, the chief was Mehsud. But since the removal of Mehsud by Mullah Omar, Gul has struck a ceasefire agreement with the Pakistani security forces.

The former chief of the Taliban in South Waziristan, Haji Omar, a Wazir, has also separated from Baitullah and now lives in North Waziristan. He has also struck a deal with the security forces and his now focussed on raising money and men for Afghanistan.

The Uzbeks, the largest group of foreigners in the tribal areas and concentrated in Mir Ali, have joined hands with the Afghan Taliban after separating from Tahir Yuldashev, the leader of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. This leaves Mehsud and his followers isolated with members of the banned militant outfit Lashkar-i-Jhangvi and the Takfiri group within al-Qaeda led by Shiekh Essa.

Meanwhile, Pakistani police in the southern port city of Karachi have clarified that Qasim Toori, who was reported to have been killed in five-hour shootout between militants and security forces on Tuesday, is in fact not dead.

Police say he is only injured and is in their custody. He was said to be dead in an effort to catch his whole network, which is believed to be the main financial artery for Mehsud's network.

Thus, Mehsud, with his financial sources curtailed and becoming increasingly isolated, could be the big loser from Libi's death.

The Taliban have taken a hard hit, there is no doubt about that, as Libi was a field commander of exceptional talent. But the momentum for the Taliban's spring offensive was already in place before his death, and now it is gaining pace.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com
 
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RR,

It is heartening to think the most people feel that the AQ is doing something unacceptable.

This proves that all are of the same opinion as the US and are totally in concert with the US and its action against AQ and its ideological inheritors, who claim that they are the true Mujahideens etc.

Therefore, it is paradoxical to state that they hate the US.

That does not make sense – that people have the same opinion as the US and yet the hate the US.

If one understands geo-strategy (it will help if one reads the various articles posted by S-2, rather than stab in thin air), one will realise that the US is in no hurry to quit Afghanistan, no matter what the odds are. Any thoughts otherwise, is wishful thinking.

That the thought that the Taliban is not essential for implementing Pakistan’s strategic necessity when the time comes does smack of lack of understanding. Are you disputing that Pakistan has always looked at Afghanistan as its strategic depth? If it is, how will it achieve that? Through an elected govt that has its loyalty to Afghanistan? Would Pakistan readily give strategic depth to some other country and abdicate her sovereignty? Let’s not look at Afghanistan as fait accompli to the strategic desires of Pakistan.

As far as the formation of the Taliban, one should read a bit and not hallucinate. Where did they come from? The moon? From the madrassa of Afghanistan is what you wish to state? What does the word Taliban mean? For Christ’s sake, quit pulling wool. Take time out to read books and if you can’t, do read S-2 articles that he posts.

Again you go wrong when you feel that the US does not want to finish the Taliban. Maybe you don’t but then you are not the US. Just start reading to acquire knowledge beyond your myopic horizon.

I am a votary of Musharraf being in the chair, but I am not blind as you are or a person who wishes to be an ostrich. As far as I see, from the international and Pakistan media, things are sure not comfortable.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim
Mastan,

It maybe right that there is a bit of tardiness amongst people to fight against fellow Moslems, even if some perceive that the cause is there.

There is a vast majority (I am not talking of the people in uniform alone) in Pakistan, who do not think that the Taliban or the AQ is doing anything that is not acceptable to Islam. Therefore, there is surely a feeling that going for the Taliban may not be the right thing to do..

Jana,
I am sure you would not blink an eyelid if the media wrote, “vast majority”.
So, why the differentiation?!
Since you want to know, let’s start.
No army in the world or a para military force would surrender without firing a shot unless they are convinced that they are doing wrong. It has nothing to do with training as you are always trying to portray. It is just not done. At least, that is how we look at it in the Indian Army and elsewhere. If you wish to say that the Pakistani Army is different, then that is a different matter. All soldiers in any Army including Pakistan, are loyal to their salt!
Then, let us take the affair of the Lal Mazjid. If people can rebel against Musharraf and have demonstrations etc that ruins law and order, if the CJ can screw up Pakistan’s happiness and the lawyers and journalists like you go hammer and tongs, then can I ask why did the same people not take on, in a similar manner, these hooligans of the Red Mosque? Think that over and instead of posting here, write an article and try to change the mindset. Have you written a single article to reflect what you state here on this forum?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim
In fact, if one see the whole issue dispassionately, one will realise that the Taliban is an organisation that will be the sword arm of Pakistan in its future strategic thrusts.

The Taliban is an organisation that has been organised in Pakistan. The relationship with the Afghan govt is not what is desired by Pakistan since it does not serve its national interest. Therefore, there might come a time, when a military force is essential to tip the balance. Obviously, such an effort cannot be directly seen connected with Pakistan. At that moment of time, the Taliban, a veteran of many skirmishes, would be the ideal instrument to be launched.

Hence, the Taliban cannot be snuffed out!

Therefore, the apparent puss-yfooting is being perceived.

On the other hand, the US is keen to snuff out the Taliban.

Thus, the US alone is the sole party interested in finishing the Taliban, while others it is perceived are mere token bystanders.

Where is the PR for India out here?

I am confusing nothing. It is just that you are not aware of the world media or even S-2 articles to realize that lines are very blurred as regarding AQ and the Taliban.

If the AQ is a danger to the world, I see very little effort of Pakistan or anyone to smoke them out.

Taliban is fighting US occupation? Whatever for?

If they are fighting for the rights of the Pashtuns, how come the Afghan loya jirga has endorsed Karzai?

The drug pushers and criminals are in the Afghan govt and the Taliban is clean as a whistle? If so, where are they getting the funds from? Surely, not from Pakistan!

The US has not worked with anyone. It was a proxy war against the Soviets. They used their proxy, Pakistan, as per the Kissinger Doctrine.

In so far as the remainder, check the post to RR.

The US has never worked with the Taliban. Do show where, or else I will take it that your usual fevered imagination is at work! It will be the day that the US supports fundamentalists.

India does not fear the Taliban. My post has nothing to do with India. It has everything to do with my thoughts. Unlike you, I do have an independent mind and not everything has to be governed by India’s policy. Unlike you, you must realize that many use the forum as a platform to acquire knowledge and varied opinion as should I say. Agnostic, Mastan, S -2 or even me! We are not here to project our government’s view since neither is privy to or equipped with the govt’s stand to be their spokesman – a duty that you delightfully take on, without the approval of the govt!

Lastly, as I see it, the US is neither afraid to face the situation in Iraq or in Afghanistan!


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Its a shame .Us is openly violating our sovereignty.Today they are doing this .Tomorrow they will take on Pakistan in search of Bin Ladin
 
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"However, the Pakistani government has done its part in chasing the militants (Al Q militants) from the western frontier."

Yes and no. The GoP is actively employing the P.A. in the west. A.Q.'s presence hasn't been eliminated though. Not by far. CJTF-82 has confirmed strong contingents of Uzbeks attempting to cross. There is a lot of work to be done. Hopefully, however the elections in Pakistan go, new leaders will realize that they need more than a military presence in these regions to remove al Qaeda.

Pakistan's northwest and far west (Baluchistan) require a transformation of their roles. Not convenient buffers or useful tools but as actual citizens. Services and laws as elsewhere throughout your country. Nothing more or less and possessing no more or less from their gov't than any citizen of Pakistan should expect.

"Not necessarily the Taliban. But the Pashtuns of Afghanistan will be used as this "sword arm". They can come in any ideology. It just so happens the Jihadi groups are able to bring some security there."

Yeah. See, um...that's a REAL problem. Not the afghan pashtuns but you, Road Runner. Your ambitions will keep America firmly planted in Afghanistan for some time and foster the further deterioration of U.S.-Pakistani relations. Cynical and arrogant, it's time for these attempts to manipulate Afghan sovereignty to suit your nation's whims to stop.

Realpolitik suggests that this skewed logic lies in the quest for "strategic depth". Your borders stop around the Durand Line. Pakistan makes this clear with it's ambition to fence the border. Clearly, that means that the OTHER side of that border is not Pakistan. Simple enough, really.

Realpolitik also suggests that INDIA is not a sufficient rationale to justify Pakistan's quest for such "strategic depth". War is quite unlikely. If so, use of your strategic depth would not come to play. Key Pakistani weapon systems will not be dispersed into the Afghani hinterlands prior to hostilities ensuing. Pakistani forces won't retreat into Afghanistan to "continue the fight". The GoP won't relocate to Kandahar as a "gov't in exile".

Afghanistan is a sovereign nation and should be respected as such. It's elections were legitimate and it's gov't needs a ton of help. It's fraught with corruption and inefficiencies for a variety of reasons. You know that. Working to KEEP Afghanistan in this condition such that you can exploit it's vulnerabilities to your convenience is really wrong.

I hope that you reconsider your position on this matter, Road Runner. I really do.
 
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Pashtuns do not represent an absolute majority in Afghanistan. 58% of the nation is comprised of other peoples. However, EVERYBODY is threatened by the Taliban's onerous doctrine, to include pashtuns. The Taliban represent nobody but themselves. The GoP can't control and use them. Don't try to do so.

Very, very bad people. Taliban need to be killed wherever found.
 
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Pashtuns do not represent an absolute majority in Afghanistan. 58% of the nation is comprised of other peoples. However, EVERYBODY is threatened by the Taliban's onerous doctrine, to include pashtuns. The Taliban represent nobody but themselves. The GoP can't control and use them. Don't try to do so.

Very, very bad people. Taliban need to be killed wherever found.

58% are others?

Then what is the big deal being made out here about Karzai?
 
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RR,

It is heartening to think the most people feel that the AQ is doing something unacceptable.

This proves that all are of the same opinion as the US and are totally in concert with the US and its action against AQ and its ideological inheritors, who claim that they are the true Mujahideens etc.

Therefore, it is paradoxical to state that they hate the US.

That does not make sense – that people have the same opinion as the US and yet the hate the US.

Dude, you failed to understand the logic.

A SMALL part of the Pakistani population hates the US. This is undeniable. It is these people that will side with Al Q, not because they support Al Q's ideology, but because they hate to see the US on what they consider to be their home ground. Is it clear now?

If one understands geo-strategy (it will help if one reads the various articles posted by S-2, rather than stab in thin air), one will realise that the US is in no hurry to quit Afghanistan, no matter what the odds are. Any thoughts otherwise, is wishful thinking.

The US will have to quit Afghanistan eventually. It's not possible to keep troops there.

That the thought that the Taliban is not essential for implementing Pakistan’s strategic necessity when the time comes does smack of lack of understanding. Are you disputing that Pakistan has always looked at Afghanistan as its strategic depth?

Strategic depth isn't so important. Nobody is going to come in from the Western border. It's more important to have a stable Afghanistan for trade and oil pipelines (and for a stable Pakistan).

If it is, how will it achieve that? Through an elected govt that has its loyalty to Afghanistan? Would Pakistan readily give strategic depth to some other country and abdicate her sovereignty? Let’s not look at Afghanistan as fait accompli to the strategic desires of Pakistan.

As far as the formation of the Taliban, one should read a bit and not hallucinate. Where did they come from? The moon? From the madrassa of Afghanistan is what you wish to state? What does the word Taliban mean? For Christ’s sake, quit pulling wool. Take time out to read books and if you can’t, do read S-2 articles that he posts.

Keep hiding behind S-2. You make an excellent commander :enjoy:

The origins of the Taliban are well explained in this book

Again you go wrong when you feel that the US does not want to finish the Taliban. Maybe you don’t but then you are not the US. Just start reading to acquire knowledge beyond your myopic horizon.

I am a votary of Musharraf being in the chair, but I am not blind as you are or a person who wishes to be an ostrich. As far as I see, from the international and Pakistan media, things are sure not comfortable.

Wind.
 
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Thanks for the interesting link. It looks like a good and informative read and I'll look forward to doing so.:agree:

Don't be rude to the Brigadier.

"You make an excellent commander":enjoy:

I rather imagine that he did. How are YOUR credentials to command or even evaluate command? His are impeccable.
 
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