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U.S. Military Sales to India and Pakistan

Ruag

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U.S. Sells Arms to South Asian Rivals

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The Obama administration is sharply expanding American weapons transfers to both India and Pakistan, longtime rivals about to sit down for peace talks Thursday.

The U.S. has sought to remain neutral in the thorny relationship between the nuclear-armed neighbors. But Washington hasn't been shy about pursuing weapons deals in the region, which officials say will lead to closer ties with each country while creating new opportunities for American defense firms.

The U.S. has made billions of dollars in weapons deals with India, which is in the midst of a five-year, $50 billion push to modernize its military.

At the same time, American military aid to Pakistan stands to nearly double next year, allowing Islamabad to acquire more U.S.-made helicopters, night-vision goggles and other military equipment. The aid has made it easier for Pakistan to ramp up its fight against militants on the Afghan border, as the U.S. tries to convince Islamabad that its biggest security threat is within the country, not in India.

During a late January trip to Islamabad, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the U.S. would for the first time give Pakistan a dozen surveillance drones, a longstanding Pakistani request.

But India and Pakistan have each been irked when the U.S. made big-ticket weapons sales or transfers to the other. India lobbied against recent U.S. legislation giving Pakistan billions of dollars in new nonmilitary aid; the measure passed. A top Pakistani diplomat warned last week that a two-year-old civilian nuclear deal between the U.S. and India could threaten Pakistan's national security by making it easier for India to covertly build more nuclear weapons.

Washington's relationships with the two nations are very different. India, which is wealthier and larger than its neighbor, pays for weapons purchases with its own funds. Pakistan, by contrast, uses American grants to fund most of its arms purchases. A new U.S. counterinsurgency assistance fund for Pakistan is slated to increase from $700 million in fiscal year 2010 to $1.2 billion in fiscal year 2011.

"We do straight commercial deals with India, while Pakistan effectively uses the money we give them to buy our equipment," said a U.S. official who works with the two countries. "But we think that's ultimately in our national interest because it makes the Pakistanis more capable of dealing with their homegrown terrorists."

India is one of the largest buyers of foreign-made munitions, with a long shopping list which includes warships, fighter jets, tanks and other weapons. Its defense budget is $30 billion for the fiscal year ending March 31, a 70% increase from five years ago. The country is preparing its military to deal with multiple potential threats, including conflict with Pakistan. Tensions have recently flared between India and China over territorial claims along their border. China defeated India in a short war in 1962.

"For 2010 and 2011, India could well be the most important market in the world for defense contractors looking to make foreign military sales," said Tom Captain, the vice chairman of Deloitte LLP's aerospace and defense practice.

Russia has been India's main source of military hardware for decades, supplying about 70% of equipment now in use. Moscow is working to keep that position, with talks ongoing to sell India 29 MiG-29K carrier-borne jet fighters, according to an Indian Defense Ministry spokesman.

The Obama administration is trying to persuade New Delhi to buy American jet fighters instead, a shift White House officials say would lead to closer military and political relations between India and the U.S. It would also be a bonanza for U.S. defense contractors, and has dispatched senior officials such as Mr. Gates to New Delhi to deliver the message that Washington hopes India will choose American defense firms for major purchases in the years ahead.

Shortly after a late January visit by Mr. Gates—on the same tour that took him to Islamabad—In late January, the administration signed off on India's request to purchase 145 U.S.-made howitzers, a $647 million deal. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Mr. Gates's visit didn't affect the substance or timing of the howitzer purchase.

That came days after India formally expressed its intent to purchase 10 cargo transport aircraft from Boeing Co. in a deal analysts say could be worth more than $2 billion. Last year, India spent $2.1 billion on eight Boeing long-range Poseidon reconnaissance aircraft for the Indian navy.

Still in the pipeline is India's planned $10 billion purchase of 126 multirole combat aircraft for its air force. U.S. firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin Corp. are vying with Russia and European companies for that deal, which would be a near-record foreign sale for the firms. An agreement last summer allowing the U.S. to monitor the end-use of arms it sells to India is expected to facilitate such deals.

"That's the biggest deal in the world right now," said Mr. Captain. "If it goes to an American firm, that would be the final nail in the coffin in terms of India shifting its allegiance from Russia to the U.S."

Successive U.S. administrations have worked hard to build closer military, economic and commercial ties with India.
In its final days in office, the Bush administration signed a civilian nuclear pact with India which has cleared the way for American firms to build two nuclear plants in India in deals worth billions of dollars.

The Obama administration, which sees India as a valuable counterweight to China, is negotiating new export control and communications security agreements with New Delhi that would make it easier for American firms to sell more arms and high-technology equipment to India.

There have also been symbolic U.S. efforts to build warmer ties with India. When President Barack Obama threw his first state dinner recently, it was held in honor of visiting Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Arvind Kadyan, a researcher at India's nonprofit Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses, said India was likely to continue to do big deals with Russia.

"That situation can't change overnight, because we have such a long association with them,"
Mr. Kadyan said.

U.S. Sells Arms to South Asian Rivals - WSJ.com

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The Americans sell weapons to Pakistan so that they can pressurize India to buy more weapons from them.

Pretty smart eh?
 
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I hope Indians use their Chanakyan neeti (hopefully they do have some left! :P) to get the best systems for its armed forces from any source (domestic/ west/ russia) and help them prepare for any eventuality. Their strength should be the biggest deterrent for any potential agressor (and NOT nuclear weapons!)

OT: that rendering of the P-8I looks amazing! Can't wait for it to see flying in IOR!
 
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And the ultimate winner is US. They sell weapons to india and pakistan and make all the money, which is channeled again to the same region through war. they sell weapons to militants too through defense contractors. US is the most ultimate opportunist and they are a menace to the mankind. All the conflicts are made by them only and they will continue to do so. There is no point in saying India has to use oppertunity and accumulate more weaponry. You are not going to feed millions of people with howitzer shells and submarines.

Similarly the love for F-16 will take Pakistan to nowhere.

Plans, shipes and all come and go. Majority of war machinery gets phased out without even using them and these 2 countries race against each other to replace them with newer ones, when common man still has nothing to with it.

We, the guys in this forum are intersted in this thunders, LCAs, missiles and all. If u ask a common man in country about.. thunder he will ask u to look into sky for lightning. and if u ask an indian common man about AGNI he will show u his matchbox for fire.
 
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The main tragedy is that Pakistan is not paying a single penny for those F-16s out of its own pocket. As the article pointed out, Pakistan is paying for these weapons through American aid grants. India, on the other hand, is using its tax payers' money to fund these military procurements.

It is a very well thought out American strategy - sell $2-3 billion worth military equipment to Pakistan so that they can secure $10+ billion worth military sales from India. And not to forget the millions more India will pay maintaining these American weapons while the Pakistanis get free service and upgrades.

And seriously, I will not blame anyone but the government of India for this situation. It has consistently refused to allow and support private Indian companies in the defense sector.

Any nation which relies on other nations for defense technology can never become a major military power.
 
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It is the stupidest thing to claim that Pakistan is getting anything for free. Pakistanis want nothing but to end the trend of taking American military aid. Most of it is just operational costs for the war. The new gear can barely be used against India and is mostly for COIN operations. The handful of F-16s is no where near the defence requirements of Pakistan.

The new Generation of Pakistanis is increasingly inclined towards sending their orders to China or obtaining contracts of Transfer of Production Technology with the Chinese.

Indian government has been more inclined towards purchases, and they have the money to continue doing it for the next couple of decades. We on the other hand have already started using our own developed hardware in the Army, Navy and now even the Air Force.

The JF-17 trend would probably expand to the J-10, the J-10 to J-XX in the next decade or two.
 
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The main tragedy is that Pakistan is not paying a single penny for those F-16s out of its own pocket. As the article pointed out, Pakistan is paying for these weapons through American aid grants. India, on the other hand, is using its tax payers' money to fund these military procurements.

It is a very well thought out American strategy - sell $2-3 billion worth military equipment to Pakistan so that they can secure $10+ billion worth military sales from India. And not to forget the millions more India will pay maintaining these American weapons while the Pakistanis get free service and upgrades.

And seriously, I will not blame anyone but the government of India for this situation. It has consistently refused to allow and support private Indian companies in the defense sector.

Any nation which relies on other nations for defense technology can never become a major military power.

NOTHING is free...if they got any F-16...it was because of afghanstan...
 
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Any nation which relies on other nations for defense technology can never become a major military power.

i totally agree with roug.Reliance on military technology will lead to nowhere. you have to build ur own technology. Like u need to build ur own satellites, ur own fighter-planes, Ur own ships ,radars, missiles,avionics, weapons systems, software for integration and all. Buying everything isn't a good option for a great power. i totally agree with you...


And roug i would like you to provide me with some information as to how much F-16s have pakistan recieved . I searched and found out that

Letter of agreement for up to 28 F-16A and 12 F-16B signed December 1981, 6 under Peace Gate I contract, 34 under Peace Gate II. All Block 15 models powered by F100-PW-200. First Peace Gate I aircraft accepted at Fort Worth in October 1982. 2 F-16A and 4 F-16B delivered to Pakistan in 1983, first F-16 arrived at Sargodha Airbase on 15 January 1983 flown by Squadron Leader Shahid Javed. 34 aircraft delivered under Peace Gate II between 1983 and 1987.[15][16] Of 28 F-16A/B built under Peace Gate III/IV and embargoed in 1990,[nb 1] 14 delivered as EDA (Excess Defense Articles) from 2005 to 2008.[17] 2 delivered on 10 July 2007.[18] 9 attritional losses; 3 in late 1980s, 5 in early 1990s, 1 in 2009.


With my arethematic with aid US has given around 16 out of 41 F_16s which is stilla good number considering its their own money .
 
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NOTHING is free...if they got any F-16...it was because of afghanstan.


no u got it all wrong the F-16 deal was mooted in early 1980's . and more than half was delvered before 1990 , much before the afgan episode of US. what makes u belive all the f-16s were given recently??? get ur stats clear BRo...
 
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okkkk..sorry i did not re check my stats... but soviet was there in afghanistan in 78-79 as much as i know...the war just peaked in 86-87...

however i might be wrong..and yes AFGHANISTAN episode did not start recently , it is there since 80's...
 
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It is the stupidest thing to claim that Pakistan is getting anything for free. Pakistanis want nothing but to end the trend of taking American military aid. Most of it is just operational costs for the war. The new gear can barely be used against India and is mostly for COIN operations. The handful of F-16s is no where near the defence requirements of Pakistan.

The new Generation of Pakistanis is increasingly inclined towards sending their orders to China or obtaining contracts of Transfer of Production Technology with the Chinese.

Indian government has been more inclined towards purchases, and they have the money to continue doing it for the next couple of decades. We on the other hand have already started using our own developed hardware in the Army, Navy and now even the Air Force.

The JF-17 trend would probably expand to the J-10, the J-10 to J-XX in the next decade or two.



First US then china...let see where you will land, but first you have to learn chinese.

I think the best friend is yours is your own country no :usflag: nor :china:
 
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Now they want that we increase FDI 49%
[quote][urlhttp://www.business-standard.com/india/news/us-asks-india-to-raise-fdi-cap-in-defence-to-49/86828/on]US asks India to raise defence FDI cap to 49%url]

Buoyed by its armament majors securing multi-billion contracts, US has asked India to raise its cap on foreign direct investment (FDI) in defence sector to 49 per cent from existing 26 per cent.


Making a pitch for this, the Obama Administration also wants India to undertake more sweeping reforms to attract new investments, saying this will propel New Delhi to a higher growth rate.

"Reforms to date have made Indian companies leaders in areas such as IT, pharmaceuticals, telecommunications, and now increasingly, in manufacturing as well as in clean energy. We hope India will seize the opportunity to undertake new reforms that will both attract new investment and propel higher growth," Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asia Robert Blake has said.

He was more particular on opening up of the defence sector, saying, "we are urging the Indian government to raise the cap on foreign equity in Indian defence firms from 26 per cent to 49 per cent to provide more opportunities for US companies interested in defence sales in India."

His comments at the Washington International Business Council meeting come as US defence majors Lockheed Martin, Boeing and other firms have bagged almost all the major Indian armed forces contracts worth more than $10 billion.

These includes sale of Hercules C-130 J transport aircraft and Boeing P-8A maritime reconnaissance aircraft. US companies are in strong contention for sale of next generation fighter aircraft to the Indian airforce.

Noting that the US recently had some important sales to India, Blake said there are significant new sales on the horizon, up to $18 billion worth of contracts, for which American companies are competing.

Calling India as a rising global power, soon to be the world's most populous country, with a trillion dollar-plus economy, Blake said it is a model of a tolerant pluralistic society in the region. "And it is a country increasingly comfortable with working with the United States," Blake said.

In July last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visited India and launched a Strategic Dialogue which called for increased collaboration in a number of areas that fall under five pillars: strategic cooperation; energy and climate change; education and development; economics, trade and agriculture; and science, technology, health and innovation.

In November, President Barack Obama hosted Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for the first state visit of his Presidency, calling India an "indispensable" nation.

President Obama has also pledged to visit India in 2010, further underscoring the importance of India to the United States, he said. The State Department official said the strength of India's economy makes it the powerhouse of South and Central Asian regional growth.

"The Indian economy has been one of the fastest growing economies in the world since 2003, averaging 8 to 9 per cent growth in recent years... India's economy grew about 5.6 per cent in 2009, and is expected to grow 7.7 per cent this year. If India can sustain its economic reforms, it has the potential to sustain close to double digit growth rates for many years to come," Blake said.

One sign of India's prospering internal market is its growing middle class which now numbers about 300 million and is expected to double over the next 20 years to reach 600 million. To put that into perspective, that's roughly the size of the total population of the European Union right now, he noted.

As part of the US-India Strategic Dialogue, the US government is working with India to expand business opportunities, he said, adding the economics, trade, and agriculture pillar of the Dialogue is particularly important for business.

"Our trade has doubled just in the last five years. US exports to India were more than $28 billion in 2008. We expect that growth to continue into the foreseeable future as India's middle class continues to grow and as India's economy continues to open up. US investment also has grown very quickly, and now totals more than $16 billion," he said.

"The strategic cooperation pillar also is expected to offer numerous business opportunities. Last year, our two governments agreed on an end-use monitoring arrangement that will help the process of technology transfer between our two countries, and I think there's scope for further progress in that area," Blake said.

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First of all, nearly every nation is selling to both sides! The US, the French, the Germans, UK, Sweden and even the Russians are, so we can't blame anybody for doing this. The only thing that is important for us is, what they sell to us and what they sell to Pakistan!

As long as we can get the better arms and techs, we can keep a clear advantage so why bother about it?

They sell 18 x F16B52 to PAF, but offer us 126 x F18SH and it should be clear which of these deals will make a difference.
Russia and France sells parts for JF 17, but mainly of 4. gen fighters, for us they offer 4+ and even 5. gen fighters, techs and weapons. Again, it should be clear which of these deals will make a difference.
 
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I am against US deals but the fact is.

We have done 10000ss of stuff for US and you did nuthing for US!!
 
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