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In case of N-LCA , it was similar to F35b version with STOVL variant and landing

Lt Prateek -

Can you please elaborate it?, I dont know if N-LCA was ever designed for STOVL opertations, coz its a vertical landing situation and N-LCA will use arrestor hooks for that matter, it was always Short take off and arrestor landing.

Now the equation you gave behind choosing LM coz they tested our FBW design doesnt actually co-relate to their assistance being sort by India in carrier based operations...

I am not worried why LM being choosen as consultant as they have enough experince on planes..
 
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No , i never meant vertical take off or vertical landing for LCA.
I was describing the version of F35 , only B has that feature while F35 c has catapult launch .
F35b has capability to vertical take off or short take off , while recovery can be either vertical or arrested . As was offered to Indian navy with short-take off and arrested recovery .

Now naval LCA is short take off and arrested recovery type , which F35 does has similarity with it ??????????
 
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Well does any one has any idea what will be the eventual unit cost of LCA ?? long long development period means high cost. How will it serve the purpose of being cheap ... ?
 
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No , i never meant vertical take off or vertical landing for LCA.
I was describing the version of F35 , only B has that feature while F35 c has catapult launch .
F35b has capability to vertical take off or short take off , while recovery can be either vertical or arrested . As was offered to Indian navy with short-take off and arrested recovery .

Now naval LCA is short take off and arrested recovery type , which F35 does has similarity with it ??????????
I am not worried why LM being choosen as consultant as they have enough experince on planes..

This was what I meant when i said that you need to elaborate it..:)
Agree with you, just wanted to clarify for myself and others that you meant the same.
 
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Well does any one has any idea what will be the eventual unit cost of LCA ?? long long development period means high cost. How will it serve the purpose of being cheap ... ?

eventual unit cost of LCA
It will depend on numbers ordered and any further modifications

long long development period means high cost. How will it serve the purpose of being cheap ...

You are confusing the eventual cost with the developmental cost ,
Developmental cost will always be high bcoz many Program's run through decades and cost-overruns .
Perfect example is F35 , daly we have news of Cost overruns and Developmental cost occuring between 150 - 250 mill . But it wont remain so for future once 2000 in nos are placed F35 will cost 60-80 mill . Same is with LCA .
 
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Boeing, Dassault have always designed aircraft with Catapult assisted launch , not STOL variant , all their fighters have been twin Engined with effective thrust for that Take-off.

In case of N-LCA , it was similar to F35b version with STOVL variant and landing and L.M had experience of both F35 and LCA bcoz-----

L.M was initial consultant in Tejas programe in 90's . our FBW was initially tested and certified by L.M testing center . So it was logical to go with them initially

First of all, not all Dassault carrier fighters was twin engine fighters:

Dassault-Breguet Super Étendard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secondly, the important point of making a fighter carrier capable is not the way it starts, because for catapult starts you just need to make some changes at the front gear and ski-jump take offs needs just a good T/W ratio. The key here is the strenghtening of the airframe and the gears for the arrested landings, because that will make the biggest difference for LCA in IAF, or on IN carriers.
So for this Dassault, Mig and Boeing are clearly more experienced than anybody else!
Also you count the experience of LM with F35B, but what experience do they really have with it? That aircraft is not operational, it is just in testing stage and did only some vertical take offs and landings at land. AFAIK there was not a single carrier landing so far, which would surprise me anyway, because they are delayed in the development too and have enough other problems.
So to me, they don't really have experience in making a fighter carrier capable!

The most logical choice would have been the Russians, because we use their carrier design and even their Mig 29Ks, even the French would make more sense, because they was involved for the overall design, which should help them to make changes for the use on carriers. LM is really the last that I would think about if I was HAL. :confused:
 
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Well does any one has any idea what will be the eventual unit cost of LCA ?? long long development period means high cost. How will it serve the purpose of being cheap ... ?
As mentioned by financial analyists, the developement of LCA has costed some 500-600 million, and thus the unit price will remain as 20-25 million.

Some say 500-600 million is what some high end car companies spend in developing a new car..

No matter what...Its still too cheap.

Its the simplest answer to your query
 
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Sancho L.M worked quite a bit on in 90's on LCA and its system's testing.
Most probably it was reluctance on part of l.m to assist more than Russians, that HAL went with them .
L.M worldwide have done lot of work in assisting and record as technical assistant is quite good - whether its in Japan-Kx2 or Korea-T50 .
Indian gov and HAL felt that they would get same benefit .

Any ways this was recognized a year back that L.M wont be able to help and HAL went with EADS on this . First variant will be up in July for testing .
 
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As mentioned by financial analyists, the developement of LCA has costed some 500-600 million, and thus the unit price will remain as 20-25 million.

Some say 500-600 million is what some high end car companies spend in developing a new car..

No matter what...Its still too cheap.

Its the simplest answer to your query

Yes, its too cheap.

Not high end even small car manufacturing companies do that. It the standard cost.

Following link is prove that even a small car manufacturing company invest hundreds of millions in R&D.

Maruti Suzuki India to invest Rs 4200 crore | Rush Lane
 
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Sancho L.M worked quite a bit on in 90's on LCA and its system's testing.
Most probably it was reluctance on part of l.m to assist more than Russians, that HAL went with them .
L.M worldwide have done lot of work in assisting and record as technical assistant is quite good - whether its in Japan-Kx2 or Korea-T50 .
Indian gov and HAL felt that they would get same benefit .

Any ways this was recognized a year back that L.M wont be able to help and HAL went with EADS on this . First variant will be up in July for testing .

I don't say they wasn't involved before, or that LM has no genreral experience in fighter developments, but this case is special and they clearly lack behind here.
Just another unnecessary delay in the development, although as I stated before, the whole N-LCA is unnecessary anyway.
 
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Just another unnecessary delay in the development, although as I stated before, the whole N-LCA is unnecessary anyway.

Even I agreee with this...I dont see a point apart from enabling yourself in future to develope a carrier borne aircraft. But this aircraft has short fate(N-LCA).
 
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No , its important Sancho . Even if LCA wouldn't had become success, atleast it gave us platform and some working industral base to work for indigenous products .
Look at the contribution of LCA is shaping up Su30.
LCA navy even if not , inducted will help us in experience for developing a naval fighter or a naval UAV in future . BTW i am also fascinated by LCA-UAV announcement.
We never know how AMCA comes up , may be IN decides to go for them after development .
 
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Welll Dash, development has not completed yet, and the time when LCA will get operational the overall development cost would ve risen to a much more huge amount. Would'nt that spoil the idea of low cost - or cost effective approach ???
 
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It will depend on numbers ordered and any further modifications



You are confusing the eventual cost with the developmental cost ,
Developmental cost will always be high bcoz many Program's run through decades and cost-overruns .
Perfect example is F35 , daly we have news of Cost overruns and Developmental cost occuring between 150 - 250 mill . But it wont remain so for future once 2000 in nos are placed F35 will cost 60-80 mill . Same is with LCA .

Welll i meant to say the unit cost for LCA when it will get the operational status and ordered by IAF. And ofcourse costs will go down with the no's ordered. Anyways, what are the expectations for LCA to get operational , any idea ?
 
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Aircraft to be called Fully operational needs IOC and FOC .

IOC is Initial operational capability that is given by OEM and is as per minimal ASR requirements of Air-force.HAL/ADA in this case is OEM . Tejas will get IOC by DEC-2010
At the end of this year 20air-crafts will be handed over to IAF in IOC configuration.
Here is the link -
LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Defence Minister's Tryst With Tejas
Defence Aviation - LCA Tejas finally gets Radar!

FOC Full operational capability is given when Jet is certified by Air-force operating the air-craft , that is all ASR requirements are verified on all occasions by the IAF.
FOC for Tejas is 2012 when they complete 2 years in service atleast , 2 years bcoz you need that much flight hours on air-craft by Pilots to certify.

Every aircraft has to go thru these certification
Rafale Jet entered service in 2003 and got IOC by Air-Force (Can call it FOC bcoz Air-force is certifying ) in 2006
Here is link - http://www.deagel.com/Strike-and-Fighter-Aircraft/Rafale-B_a000479003.aspx
The two-seat Rafale B has been designed to perform precision ground attack, reconnaissance and nuclear strike missions. It will replace current Jaguar, Mirage F1, Mirage IV and Mirage 2000N aircraft. The French Air Force requires up to 139 Rafale Bs through 2019 to replace aging aircraft. The Rafale B is scheduled to achieve IOC in 2006.
 
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