U.S. Effort to Help India Build Up Navy Hits Snag

[T-123456]

Wouldn't you have a strategy and then buy the gear that can best carry out that strategy, not the other way around?

Some countries have complicated procurement policies,its not all black and white.

 

[Sully3]

wait did i just see a hotel in the same ship india is going to commission in china

unbelievable

 

[Haris Mansoor]

OOO soo APKO bura laga ki INDIA ne jhoot bola. Dont ask what you guys said about proof given by AMREEKA....
Watch out Bramos may land in your backyard incase Terrorist are hiding there...

HAHAHA,,, you are trying to avoid my point... India has techniques batter than USA and all other countries of the world. Good

 

[Nan Yang]

You see, what we have and the Chinese don't is a strategy. The Chinese need to build CBGs, start cruising the world and figure out how to use a carrier in battle, that will take years, maybe even decades.

Boasting like these from Indian posters are not uncommon.

Anyway here's a video all about India's latest aircraft carrier Vikrant that is under construction.

 

[randomradio]

Boasting like these from Indian posters are not uncommon.

How is that boasting? You were the one doing it. China needs 30 years before it can say it's at the level of India when it comes to carriers. It's simple truth.

Basically, you were wrong about the Vikramaditya. And the Vikrant is a far superior, brand new design.

Nothing in the OP article is correct. The story is just made up so it can influence Indian politicians to choose America for carrier development of IAC-2.

 

[Super Commando Dhruva]

Boasting like these from Indian posters are not uncommon.

Anyway here's a video all about India's latest aircraft carrier Vikrant that is under construction.

Translation please.

 

[Dungeness]

When people decide to close their mind, no amount of "free media" can save hem.

Translation please.

It basically said that Indians were celebrating the launch of an empty HULL just the sake of it, then started searching for suitable subsystems to fit in. Like the case in Indian Kolkata-Class Destroyers which were sitting in docks for like 10 years, while waiting for Barak 8.

This approach is very different from Chinese. Before Chinese starts building hulls, they have already worked on various subsystems for years. Like this EMAL system intended for their next Aircraft Carriers:

 

[Joe Shearer]

Calm down fella's when the Americans quote stupid assessment's like these there is the inherent reason as to why they would do that.

Add 2 + 2 together it's not hard to figure out! as my Indian brethren's have posted in ample detail, we have a long history in operating carriers.

so let the guys rejoice over some India bashing! it won't hurt our ego 1 bit.



A decent assessment! never underestimate your adversary.



Yes, and I think we are ordering more, correct me if I am wrong! perhaps @Joe Shearer can confirm this!

I would rather not comment.

 

[Nan Yang]

Translation please.

This military program was in response to the extreme boasting of India following the "launch" / Floating out of India's latest aircraft carrier, Vikrant.
So it invited military theorist, Rear Admiral Zhang ZhaoZhong to analyse these media boasting.
Here is his analysis.
The Vikrant as launch, is nothing but an empty shell. A lot still not completed. Should not be launch unitil much more is completed.
It is not really an Indian indigenous aircraft carrier.
Its only a light carrier
Design - France, Spain then Italy
Radar - Russia
Air defense - Israel / Russia
Ship Gun - Italy
Engines - United States
MIG 29 - Russia
The electronic controls of some of the above, such as radar, weapon, Engine electronic, controls etc are military secret and will not be shared with India.
How to integrate all these together ? Very difficult.
Also if the design is not your own, you cannot later make changes to cater to your own needs.The electronic control must be your own, very important but not in this case. Material is not important.
He also talk about the MIG29. He says he sat in a MIG 29 before and find it very small. Tegas is even smaller and not capable for an A/C fighter.

At 23.00, the anchor mention about more Indian media boasting that he cannot take it

He he he.....

 

[randomradio]

This military program was in response to the extreme boasting of India following the "launch" / Floating out of India's latest aircraft carrier, Vikrant.
So it invited military theorist, Rear Admiral Zhang ZhaoZhong to analyse these media boasting.
Here is his analysis.
The Vikrant as launch, is nothing but an empty shell. A lot still not completed. Should not be launch unitil much more is completed.
It is not really an Indian indigenous aircraft carrier.
Its only a light carrier
Steel - Russia
Design - France, Spain then Italy
Radar - Russia
Air defense - Israel / Russia
Ship Gun - Italy
Engines - United States
MIG 29 - Russia
The electronic controls of some of the above, such as radar, weapon, Engine electronic, controls etc are military secret and will not be shared with India.
How to integrate all these together ? Very difficult.
Also if the design is not your own, you cannot later make changes to cater to your own needs.The electronic control must be your own, very important but not in this case. Material is not important.
He also talk about the MIG29. He says he sat in a MIG 29 before and find it very small. Tegas is even smaller and not capable for an A/C fighter.

At 23.00, the anchor mention about more Indian media boasting that he "Ta boleh TAHAN" (Malay for cannot take it).

He he he.....

Lol. The Vikrant was initially floated out because the shipyard wanted to use the dry dock to build a container ship. It had nothing to do with boasting.

All that needs correction are in bold.
Steel - India
https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/vikrant-navys-first-indigenous-aircraft-carrier-launched
the first warship to be built entirely using indigenously produced steel.
Design - India
Radar - Italy/Israel
Air defense - Israel/India
Ship Gun - Italy... LOL. Carrier with gun.
Engines - United States
MIG 29 - Russia
'New aircraft' - Indian ... Not N-LCA.

Everything is integrated. India's BMD also uses French and Israeli radar, all integrated.

Which means even your Rear Admiral Zhang ZhaoZhong is wrong.

Posting the entire article below. Read it and better education yourself.
++++++++++++++
Amidst chanting of hymns from the Atharva Veda, Vikrant, India’s first aircraft carrier, decommissioned on 31 January 1997, was reborn today as Smt Elizabeth Antony, wife of the Defence Minister Shri AK Antony, christened India’s first Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) as ‘Vikrant’ meaning “courageous” or “victorious” in Sanskrit.

In a colourful ceremony filled with traditional pomp and fervour at the Cochin Shipyard Limited in Kochi, Smt. Antony launched ‘Vikrant’ in the presence of Shri AK Antony, the Defence Minister, Shri GK Vasan, the Minister of Shipping, Admiral DK Joshi, the Chief of Naval Staff, Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha, the F-O-C in C Western Naval Command, Vice Admiral Satish Soni, Commander-in-Chief Southern Naval Command, Commodore (Retd) K Subramaniam, Chairman and Managing Director, CSL, and other officials of the Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Shipping. In addition, a multitude of Naval officers, yard workers and a few members of the Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL), the manufacturers of the indigenous warship grade steel, were also present.

At the launch, marking the end of Phase- I of the project, the imposing ramp of the 37,500 tonne Short Take off but Assisted Recovery (STOBAR) Carrier boasted the indigenous design and build capabilities of the country. The ship has attained its designed length of about 260 m and is almost at its maximum breadth of 60 m. The main landing strip is ready. Over 80% of the structure, containing about 2300 compartments has been fabricated, over 75% has been erected, all the major machinery, such as the two LM2500 Gas Turbines developing a total power of 80 MW, the diesel alternators capable of producing about 24 MW and the main gear box have been fitted. Soon after Vikrant floated perfectly upright, she was launched out into the Ernakulam Channel in a pontoon assisted precision manoeuvre. Vikrant was moved out of the building dock to be positioned in the refitting dock where the next Phase of outfitting will be completed.

Describing the occasion as a ‘momentous’ one, Shri Antony said,“ Today’s launching of the IAC marks just the first step in a long journey, but at the same time, an important one.” He said it was indeed a proud moment for the country to witness our efforts at achieving self-reliance in the field of warship design and construction, as only a very few advanced countries in the world possess the capability to design and build aircraft carriers.

Shri Antony said we must continue the process of strengthening indigenous capability towards securing our maritime interests. ‘Our Navy must continue to maintain high operational readiness at all times to ward off any likely misadventure against our national interests’, he said.

The Defence Minister urged the Indian industry to participate whole-heartedly in our shipbuilding programmes and further consolidate our strength in this field.

Speaking on the occasion, the Shipping Minister Shri GK Vasan said by launching this great warship which is one of the most important ships for the Indian Navy, Indian shipbuilding has demonstrated its technical capability and expertise.

The design and construction of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier was sanctioned by the government in January 2003. The keel of the ship was laid on 28 Feb 2009 by Shri AK Antony. Vikrant marks a special feather in indigenous defence capabilities- this being the first ever aircraft carrier to be designed by the Directorate of Naval Design of the Indian Navy, the first warship to be built by Cochin Shipyard Limited and the first warship to be built entirely using indigenously produced steel. The construction of the ship is a truly pan Indian effort with active participation of private and public enterprises. The steel has come from SAIL’s plants in Raurkela in Orissa, Bokaro in Jharkand and Bhilai in Chattisgarh; the Main Switch Board, steering gear and water tight hatches have been manufactured by Larsen and Toubro in its plants in Mumbai and Talegaon; the high capacity air conditioning and refrigeration systems have been manufactured in Kirloskar’s plants in Pune; most pumps have been supplied by Best and Crompton, Chennai; Bharat Heavy Engineering Limited (BHEL) is supplying the Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS); the massive gear box is supplied by Elecon in Gujarat; the tens of thousands of electrical cable is supplied by Nicco industries in Kokatta; Kolkatta is also where the ship’s anchor chain cable is manufactured.

Vikrant will be capable of operating an aircraft mix of the Russian MiG-29K and LCA (Navy) fighters being developed indigenously by HAL. Its helicopter component will include the Kamov 31 and the indigenously developed ALH helicopters. The ship’s ability to sense and control a large air space around it will be enabled by modern C/D band Early Air Warning Radar, V/UHF Tactical Air Navigational and Direction Finding systems, jamming capabilities over the expected Electro Magnetic (EM) environment and Carrier Control Approach Radars to aid air operations. Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LR SAM) systems with Multi-Function Radar (MFR) and Close- In Weapon System (CIWS) will form the protective suite of the ship. All weapon systems onboard the carrier will be integrated through an indigenous Combat Management System (CMS), being manufactured by Tata Power systems. The ship’s integration with Navy’s Network Centric Operations will provide force multiplication.

Design of this prestigious ship has been undertaken by the Directorate of Naval Design (DND)of the Indian Navy. Created in 1956 as the Corps of Naval Constructors, to realise the dream of being a builder’s Navy through indigenisation, DND has successfully designed over 17 different classes of warships, to which around 90 ships have already been built within the country. The Delhi class destroyers, with a displacement of about 7000 tonnes, were the biggest warships designed by DND so far. Designing of the Vikrant, at almost 40,000 tonnes speaks of the maturing of the capabilities of DND and represents a feather in the cap of the designers particularly as it is the first aircraft carrier of its size in the world with some unique features such as Gas Turbine Propulsion.

The seamless hull and smooth lines of the ship stand as testimony to the high production standards of Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL). CSL, a mini Ratna PSU, has earned a reputation for quality construction and timely delivery. Till now, CSL had the distinction of building the largest ship in India i.e., 93,500 tonne Aframax tankers. However, this complex integrated construction project enabled by a Rs 200 Crores infrastructure augmentation plan involving large cranes, workshops and heavy duty machinery has seen the shipyard maturing into a competent warship builder.

Vikrant will now enter the second phase of construction which will see the outfitting of the ship, fitment of various weapons and sensors, integration of the gigantic propulsion system and integration of the aircraft complex (with the assistance of M/s NDB of Russia). The ship will then undergo extensive trials before she is handed over to the Indian Navy by around 2016-17.

About INS Vikrant
It may be recalled that at the time of attaining our Independence, our visionary leaders saw the centrality of a powerful Navy and set us on the right course by envisaging an aircraft carrier centred Indian Navy. INS Vikrant, India’s first aircraft carrier was acquired from Great Britain and commissioned on 04 Mar 1961. In its 36 years of glorious service INS Vikrant was at the centre of action in the 1971 operations for liberation of Bangladesh. Having seen many years of service as a CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take Off but Arrested Recovery) carrier working an angled deck and operating Sea Hawks, Alizes and Seakings, INS Vikrant was transformed into a STOVL carrier to operate Sea Harrier jump jets. INS Vikrant was decommissioned on 31 Jan 1997, after 36 years of glorious service under the Indian ensign. With the launch of IAC, ‘Vikrant’ the Indian Navy is well on its way to demonstrate its comfort with the practiced art of trapped landings and angled deck operations.

 

[Fenrir]

Ship Gun - Italy... LOL. Carrier with gun.

San Paulo has 4 100mm guns. Up until 1997 (sold in 2000), the French operated the Clemenceau class too, they had 8 100mm guns, though later they were replaced with Simbad air defense missiles.

Nan Yang is taking information from INS Vikrant's Wikipedia page, not the most reliable source of info to be sure, but it states that Vikrant will be outfitted with 4 76mm Oto Merlara cannons.

The same type is found on the Italian Navy's Cavour Class carriers, as noted on the bow and stern ends of the ship in this picture.

If that's wrong, great. Wikipedia is often wrong. But there's a precedent for large caliber guns being used on recently active aircraft carriers, though the Clemenceau class is by no means a modern design but Cavour is and it uses large, Italian designed 76mm guns.

There's a clear precedent, so if true INS Vikrant wouldn't be the first ship to be armed with large caliber guns. It'd still be an outlier though.

 

[randomradio]

San Paulo has 4 100mm guns. Up until 1997 (sold in 2000), the French operated the Clemenceau class too, they had 8 100mm guns, though later they were replaced with Simbad air defense missiles.

Nan Yang is taking information from INS Vikrant's Wikipedia page, not the most reliable source of info to be sure, but it states that Vikrant will be outfitted with 4 76mm Oto Merlara cannons.

The same type is found on the Italian Navy's Cavour Class carriers, as noted on the bow and stern ends of the ship in this picture.

If that's wrong, great. Wikipedia is often wrong. But there's a precedent for large caliber guns being used on recently active aircraft carriers, though the Clemenceau class is by no means a modern design but Cavour is and it uses large, Italian designed 76mm guns.

There's a clear precedent, so if true INS Vikrant wouldn't be the first ship to be armed with large caliber guns. It'd still be an outlier though.

Yeah, I always found it funny, carriers with guns.

As for the Vikrant, the govt's banned Oto Melara from all new deals.
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ccanica-out-cloud-over-defence-pacts-2825108/