U S Against Pakistan & China---This War Is A Reality Now

[Defender@@]

It goes for every state. Most of the countries do not consider the US as a responsible nuclear state but in this world might is right and so the US rules.




The US is no ally to Pakistan, there are simply too many facts to back it up but in the end it's going to be the stupidity of the Pakistani leaders which will be responsible if Pakistan finds itself unprepared for this kind of situation. The US definitely sees both Pakistan and China as threats but for different reasons. I don't think they will ever go after Pakistan before China as they have india for that job. They will leave that job for india once they are done with China. However, sanity may prevail after an honest analysis of the combined military might of China and Pakistan to counter such possibility. So, at this moment it's a bit too early to say how uncle sam is going to implement what they have on their mind.

Agreed thats why usa and israel are arming india at trumendous pace... India can purchase any weapon in the world... So they are using india to counter china and pakistan...

We have to re positioned ourself for better diplomatic relationship

 

[Genghis khan1]

Hi,

A war against pakistan and china is a reality at this moment for the U S----. The chance that the U S has now to neutralize these two countries at this time---may not be available after the next 5 to 10 years----.

This would also mean to drop pakistan totally as an ally and start up with a full time engagement with India to be the fulcrum of military action against these two nations.

Gwadar port and a naval base that the chinese may have full access to in the future, is a big challenge for the U S navy to keep its control in the arena. As it has full control over china in the south china seas---it can strangulate the chinese trade routes and oil shipments coming into china.

But Gwadar port brings out new issues and a change in power structure and power projection for the americans. As it links china thru a railhead----an oil pipeline that would reach into china----and the immediate presence of a chinese naval flotilla in the arena would bring many a headaches to the U S.

The U S navy that has controlled the area with impunity----since the second world war---will be facing fierce competition in power positioning.

So---just a few days ago---the U S fired the first round across the bough of pakistan---thru its secretary defense and the issue brought up was the short range pakistani nucs. Now---how and why did the short range pakistani nucs become a threat to the U S is unfathomable---but their concern of its usage in India Pakistan conflict seems to be un-acceptable to the americans at this stage or in the future----.

So---the thing what one needs to ask is---what are the americans trying to say---and what do the americans mean when they want pakistan to curtail the production of the short range nucs and also reduce their numbers or just totally demolish them.

Another issue is---why does the U S want pakistan to do that---why has the U S made this demand when it does not effect the U S in any way.

Does it want to pi-ss off pakistan---does it want pakistan to show any reaction---does it want to push pakistan into a corner---so that pakistan reacts and the U S finds a justification to strike.

This strike will basically neutralize pakistan's assets completely---which will put india in a much stronger position in the region---and as pakistan's legs get chopped off----that means that china's security is in question.

Now why do I think that the U S has a chance to succeed now than later----because pakistan military has failed to meet its obligation to strengthen the force in the given time.

The given time was between after 2001 till 2011---a 10 years time period---in the first part and then 2015 in the second part.

The bad decision of not getting the french aircraft between 2002---2005 is haunting them right now in the JF 17 program. With that handled---the JF17 program would have been in full swing and the upper and lower tier aircraft in place and military focused on other issues---. But tragically---the force is still bogged down even after 12 years.

The the second option that became available was earlier this year in the form of Yemen coalition---and we failed again at that as well.


Here is what Pakistan is----IT IS A NATION WITH THE BRAIN OF A LITTLE CHILD---BUT THE BODY OF A MONSTER----and the ability to rain destruction that a monster can---but as it is still a child brain---it does not comprehend the power of destruction that it has over other nations---and that has those other nations worried out of wits.

So---when this second God given opportunity came----pakistan floundered one more time out of habit----. It still was not able to comprehend what those monstrous dark clouds far out in the horizon were headed out towards----. It just could not understand that those clouds were headed its way.

The Yemen coalition was another chance for pakistan to have strengthened its military and economic might---. With a little adjustment here and a little adjustment there----moving of some fighter aircraft from one region to another---making mutual protection deal thru the resources of friendly GCC states and pakistan would have been in the driving seat one more time.

Enough funds to deploy troops---procure 5 to 8 sqdrns of frontline aircraft----navy frigates between 3500 tonnes to 8000 tonnes and create an additional force of 150 K troops---. Of those a 75 K troops deployed in yemen with at least 4 sqdrn's of aircraft and naval ship and subs---which would have given pakistan military a massive control and fire power in the region.

50---75000 troops spread around two to three bases in yemen with full military strength to keep peace in the arena and another 75---100000 troops based in saudi arabia and emirates---bahrain and qatar.

The naval flotilla would have seen another 4---6 F22 type ships---possibly 2 type 054 type frigate and possible 1 type 052 frigate. For the air force----we could see around 36 to 50 Rafale MS----4---6 division of tanks and other complimentary armor resource---the cargo fleet of the gulf countries would suffice to do the job and additons could be made.

Primary job of 50000 troops created in the first year and the total of 150000 in a 3 to 5 years time period---. Secondary jobs of over 300000 to 500000 would also had been created to cater to the needs of the troops---also money sent home in remittance would better the lifestyle of the families---who would be spending more on construction etc etc etc.

But---as pakistan has chosen to reject that offer---it is going to find itself on the brink of a dark and nasty hole of death---destruction---and mayhem.

The situation looks extremely grim for pakistan and china. The U S military has tried many a imes to provoke china in the south china seas---its partner australia alos has tried to provoke china in the recent days as the U S----and these provocations are not going to stop.

The ante will be upped slowly but surely---and at times rapidly for china to react. For pakistan---it will be put under immense pressure one more time---and this pressure that it is going to be put under---pakistan did not need to find itself in this place at this time.

For the folly of Yemen---pakistan may end up losing its source of power. @Khafee @Indus Falcon @Irfan Baloch @viper.1101

I couldn't agree more. Like I said in some other thread, Pakistan can literary create a modern day empire. Pakistan is at the center stage. A pivot nation. If Pakistan strengthen it Central Asia links by providing them access to its Gawder port, highlighting shared Historical link and influence via Turkey. We will have central Asian block supporting us. This will cause Russia to be even more friendly toward Pakistan cuz Central Asia direct effect Russia's own defence. On the other hand, A little wise strategy toward Mid-east like you mentioned,could have yielded tremendous benefits for Pakistan. But unfortunately, we got morally corrupt nation, which elects criminal and gangs for their short them benefits. Like you said, "IT IS A NATION WITH THE BRAIN OF A LITTLE CHILD---BUT THE BODY OF A MONSTER-

It is not completely upto you to decide whether you are a responsible member of the international community

There is no such thing as "A Responsible state". World works on the principle of "Might is Right". If you have long enough stick to scare opponents off or deep enough pocket to buy friends. You are a responsible state.

 

[TMA]

Hi,

As I have stated before-----there will be no issues over the temporary over stretching of the military.

To start with---you would need to send over 35000---50000 troops on the go----. You will extend the service of the close to retirement generals, brigadiers, cols majs---and non comms----you will call those back who have just recently retd.

So---basically officers is not an immediate issue----troops off course you have to take out from existing resource.

To compensate for the leanness---you will in return ask the saudis to deploy a sqdrn of F15 saudi--from theemiratis 1 sqdrn of F16 BLK60---and 2 sqdrn's of M2K9's in pakistan---the force projectio will balance out a loss of troops.

A recruitment and training center at Gwadar cantonment would be a big big plus. And why worry about Iran----Iran will always create problems for other mations as it created in yemen---. Tese guys were living happily---Iran lit a light under their ar-ses and they started a revolt---and now there are close to a 50000 dead in that conflict.

If pak military was involved right when they were asked to---the right amount of troops would have reduced these losses to a minimal and there would have been peace in the region by now.

The thing is that the U S wants to create a conflict in the region----. There are those in the govt---who think that pak's nucs must go---and these people are gaining momentum with their demand in the govt---.

The U S wants to do something now----that is what I am looking at----. It is trying extremely hard to instigate china into reacting in south china seas---to give it a reason to attack---and the time is now---.

5---10 years down the road----will be too late. And for that reason---I say---that pakistani military blundered one more time----. They absolutely had no vision.

It was the BRITSIH EAST INDIA COMPANY moment for pakistan when saudia and emirates put their nations on a paltter and gave them to pakistan and pakistanis rejected them.

Reminds me of 1969---my aunt have returned from england the first time and brought some chocolate---.

She sent them to the young students at the madrassah across the street and I tried to stop her---told her to buy the Jalebi and Barfi---but no--she wanted to send chocolate---. So the kids put chocolates in their mouths---chewed on it--and started spitting them out and cursed her as well.

Well---the same thing pakistan has done---it was given a candy--and it spat it out---.

So there are people in the Pak government who want to denuclearize Pakistan? Who are they?
Getting involved in the Yemen conflict would have had serious side effects.
I think Pakistan needs to make military alliances with Central Asian states and the Russian Federation. Perhaps leasing out bases to Russia may be a step in the right direction? This should be the top priority for the foreign and defence ministry.
Israel must rule the world. And Pakistan needs to be cut down!

 

[Leviza]

There is a reason why US wants Pakistan to limits its small nukes ...
With the presence of China in Gawadar and small nukes with Pakistan, we have upper hand,

USA is getting busy in Syria with Russia in coming days, They cant do much about Pakistan and its forces , they wanted us to get busy in Yeman war front but we left it for another day ...

they wanted to give their assets some breathing space by involving us in an other front .. which we declined ...
There is going to be War which even now NATO cant escape with .. but wise generals always selects the time and area which suits them .. not advised by others ..

 

[wiseone2]

There is a reason why US wants Pakistan to limits its small nukes ...
With the presence of China in Gawadar and small nukes with Pakistan, we have upper hand,

USA is getting busy in Syria with Russia in coming days, They cant do much about Pakistan and its forces , they wanted us to get busy in Yeman war front but we left it for another day ...

they wanted to give their assets some breathing space by involving us in an other front .. which we declined ...
There is going to be War which even now NATO cant escape with .. but wise generals always selects the time and area which suits them .. not advised by others ..

If Syria and Yemen were critical the us Central command would have toppled the regimes by now

 

[Leviza]

If Syria and Yemen were critical the us Central command would have toppled the regimes by now

lol it Syria is critical but they were trying to topple gov by moderate rebels by giving them weapons ..

It was russia which went into the game with full force and they had to back off ..
do you still think it was not critical ?

 

[Defender@@]

If Syria and Yemen were critical the us Central command would have toppled the regimes by now

Syria is critical ... But they have failed to change the regime ... However still syria is too weak to be of any significance now.. And internal war will destroy it eventually

 

[Imtiaz_Sarwar]

just one question why do USA have to attack Pakistan when it can get its job done by just arm twisting all the former and present ruling elite and there family and fortunes as all are based in west , USA, UK and middle eastern US allies

A very good account of past events. What will happen in the future, nobody knows.

 

[MastanKhan]

If Syria and Yemen were critical the us Central command would have toppled the regimes by now

Hi,

They have done worst than toppling---. When you topple one regime---another one comes in---over here----the current regime is in shambles and as is the country---.

So---basically---the deadly poisionous snake has been de-fanged and a worthless earthworm is left behind----.

just one question why do USA have to attack Pakistan when it can get its job done by just arm twisting all the former and present ruling elite and there family and fortunes as all are based in west , USA, UK and middle eastern US allies

Hi,

It is very simple---I am surprised when people don't understad the significance of a U S military strike to neutralize Pakistan.

Pakistan is the ultimate BAD BOY of the world with the most powerful weapons in stock and a very pro-active military.

Some in pentagon do SALIVATE at the thought of a military action against pakistan. A successful action will enforce the true WRIT of the united states over the world.

Pakistan military is THE ripe PLUM on the tree.

For that reason---Yemen alliance was extremely important---because of the funds available to strengthen the military with conventional means.

Iran would have squirmed and screamed----and there is nothing new about it----. Pakistan would state clearly to Iran---" stay out of Yemen ".

The nuclear weapons are for SHOW----the conventional military strength is for DOUGH.

The simple economic gains for the country would have been astronomical.

Then pakistan would have been in a much better position to talk peace with anyone.

 

[Abdullah S.]

General Kyani is said to have checked the security of our nuclear assets the moment he got information about the US incursion for OBL in 2011. He clearly told Haroon Rasheed that he thought that they had come for the nukes. This clearly suggests that he must have had this thought at the back of his mind for some time. Otherwise this wouldn't have been the the first thing he would have done.

Now the question is, was he, or now Rasheel Sharif, that stupid they they wouldn't have done some homework to tackle that possibility? After all, we always hear that military always has a plan for everything.

 

[Black Mamba1]

Hi,

A war against pakistan and china is a reality at this moment for the U S----. The chance that the U S has now to neutralize these two countries at this time---may not be available after the next 5 to 10 years----.

This would also mean to drop pakistan totally as an ally and start up with a full time engagement with India to be the fulcrum of military action against these two nations.

Gwadar port and a naval base that the chinese may have full access to in the future, is a big challenge for the U S navy to keep its control in the arena. As it has full control over china in the south china seas---it can strangulate the chinese trade routes and oil shipments coming into china.

But Gwadar port brings out new issues and a change in power structure and power projection for the americans. As it links china thru a railhead----an oil pipeline that would reach into china----and the immediate presence of a chinese naval flotilla in the arena would bring many a headaches to the U S.

The U S navy that has controlled the area with impunity----since the second world war---will be facing fierce competition in power positioning.

So---just a few days ago---the U S fired the first round across the bough of pakistan---thru its secretary defense and the issue brought up was the short range pakistani nucs. Now---how and why did the short range pakistani nucs become a threat to the U S is unfathomable---but their concern of its usage in India Pakistan conflict seems to be un-acceptable to the americans at this stage or in the future----.

So---the thing what one needs to ask is---what are the americans trying to say---and what do the americans mean when they want pakistan to curtail the production of the short range nucs and also reduce their numbers or just totally demolish them.

Another issue is---why does the U S want pakistan to do that---why has the U S made this demand when it does not effect the U S in any way.

Does it want to pi-ss off pakistan---does it want pakistan to show any reaction---does it want to push pakistan into a corner---so that pakistan reacts and the U S finds a justification to strike.

This strike will basically neutralize pakistan's assets completely---which will put india in a much stronger position in the region---and as pakistan's legs get chopped off----that means that china's security is in question.

Now why do I think that the U S has a chance to succeed now than later----because pakistan military has failed to meet its obligation to strengthen the force in the given time.

The given time was between after 2001 till 2011---a 10 years time period---in the first part and then 2015 in the second part.

The bad decision of not getting the french aircraft between 2002---2005 is haunting them right now in the JF 17 program. With that handled---the JF17 program would have been in full swing and the upper and lower tier aircraft in place and military focused on other issues---. But tragically---the force is still bogged down even after 12 years.

The the second option that became available was earlier this year in the form of Yemen coalition---and we failed again at that as well.


Here is what Pakistan is----IT IS A NATION WITH THE BRAIN OF A LITTLE CHILD---BUT THE BODY OF A MONSTER----and the ability to rain destruction that a monster can---but as it is still a child brain---it does not comprehend the power of destruction that it has over other nations---and that has those other nations worried out of wits.

So---when this second God given opportunity came----pakistan floundered one more time out of habit----. It still was not able to comprehend what those monstrous dark clouds far out in the horizon were headed out towards----. It just could not understand that those clouds were headed its way.

The Yemen coalition was another chance for pakistan to have strengthened its military and economic might---. With a little adjustment here and a little adjustment there----moving of some fighter aircraft from one region to another---making mutual protection deal thru the resources of friendly GCC states and pakistan would have been in the driving seat one more time.

Enough funds to deploy troops---procure 5 to 8 sqdrns of frontline aircraft----navy frigates between 3500 tonnes to 8000 tonnes and create an additional force of 150 K troops---. Of those a 75 K troops deployed in yemen with at least 4 sqdrn's of aircraft and naval ship and subs---which would have given pakistan military a massive control and fire power in the region.

50---75000 troops spread around two to three bases in yemen with full military strength to keep peace in the arena and another 75---100000 troops based in saudi arabia and emirates---bahrain and qatar.

The naval flotilla would have seen another 4---6 F22 type ships---possibly 2 type 054 type frigate and possible 1 type 052 frigate. For the air force----we could see around 36 to 50 Rafale MS----4---6 division of tanks and other complimentary armor resource---the cargo fleet of the gulf countries would suffice to do the job and additons could be made.

Primary job of 50000 troops created in the first year and the total of 150000 in a 3 to 5 years time period---. Secondary jobs of over 300000 to 500000 would also had been created to cater to the needs of the troops---also money sent home in remittance would better the lifestyle of the families---who would be spending more on construction etc etc etc.

But---as pakistan has chosen to reject that offer---it is going to find itself on the brink of a dark and nasty hole of death---destruction---and mayhem.

The situation looks extremely grim for pakistan and china. The U S military has tried many a imes to provoke china in the south china seas---its partner australia alos has tried to provoke china in the recent days as the U S----and these provocations are not going to stop.

The ante will be upped slowly but surely---and at times rapidly for china to react. For pakistan---it will be put under immense pressure one more time---and this pressure that it is going to be put under---pakistan did not need to find itself in this place at this time.

For the folly of Yemen---pakistan may end up losing its source of power. @Khafee @Indus Falcon @Irfan Baloch @viper.1101

It appears from your argument that the whole Pakistan country and Pakistani nation exist only to protect and strengthen PA . The focal point of all national policies, decisions and initiatives will be in the direction of protecting PA

 

[MastanKhan]

General Kyani is said to have checked the security of our nuclear assets the moment he got information about the US incursion for OBL in 2011. He clearly told Haroon Rasheed that he thought that they had come for the nukes. This clearly suggests that he must have had this thought at the back of his mind for some time. Otherwise this wouldn't have been the the first thing he would have done.

Now the question is, was he, or now Rasheel Sharif, that stupid they they wouldn't have done some homework to tackle that possibility? After all, we always hear that military always has a plan for everything.

Hi,

It is not a mater of being 'stupid'--it is about understanding the ever changing american power projection.

 

[Jat Boy]

Paranoid, thread.....

USA,Does not care or worry about any one bar usa

 

[MastanKhan]

It appears from your argument that the whole Pakistan country and Pakistani nation exist only to protect and strengthen PA . The focal point of all national policies, decisions and initiatives will be in the direction of protecting PA

Hi,

I do not have an argument---but a statement----. With an enemy 5 times the size----the strengthening of military is prime.

Just like Israel----whose all the policies are directed towards the strengthening of the military primarily---.

 

[Humble Analyst]

The World situation is so volatile that attacking any country is going to be a bigger disaster than the Hawks and adventure loving will be shocked and regret what they started. Will they stop? I do not think so. Can they handle what they have already stated? No. Will this stop them to start new adventures? No. Will they regret it? Yes but it will be too late. Nature will take is course.