U.K., U.S. at Odds Over Saudi Deal

[Secur]

Aryan_B, this is not the Thread to kick-start the discussion regarding saudi regime you may open it World Affairs Section.

Actually , he didn't do it ... He merely pointed out the corruption in the very deal which is well on the topic ... Someone else couldn't handle the truth and resorted to personal attacks ... and Ofcourse the Princes have been taking bribes as usual ( not the first time , read about Al-Yammah ) to seal the deal ...

 

[Luftwaffe]

Mate this is about Saud weapon deals:

BAE accused of secretly paying £1bn to Saudi prince | World news | The Guardian

No respectively, the Thread is about UK-US at Odds over Saudi Deal...What you are doing is bringing in multiple topics that belongs to other section. I agree with your other posts regarding saudi regimes but let us leave it to other threads-sections.

And how would you feel every other Pakistani armed forces deals have bribes-corruption involved in it.

 

[lem34]

No respectively, the Thread is about UK-US at Odds over Saudi Deal...What you are doing is bringing in multiple topics that belongs to other section. I agree with your other posts regarding saudi regimes but let us leave it to other threads-sections.

And how would you feel every other Pakistani armed forces deals have bribes-corruption involved in it.

Well mate we can agree to disagree and not get personal. The umpires are the mods if anyone wishes they are welcome to report it and if mods agree with you it will get deleted

 

[Luftwaffe]

Actually , he didn't do it ... He merely pointed out the corruption in the very deal which is well on the topic ... Someone else couldn't handle the truth and resorted to personal attacks ... and Ofcourse the Princes have been taking bribes as usual ( not the first time , read about Al-Yammah ) to seal the deal ...

Hello, contribute positively to the thread, not backing up your mate, no personal grudge involved just stay on topic you don't need to justify there is no need to derail the thread.

Corruptions-bribes are involved in all sections of minor-major military deals across the globe, the point is to get something better even at higher cost If cash is available.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

what is driving American opposition?

1. their claim over intellectual property and its possible leak?
2. They are not making the sale, but UK is?

these are the only two possibilities I can think of but I find them weak too.


1. Saudi Arabia is a staunch American ally and a trusted strategic partner. any apprehension might be justified when such sale is for a country like Pakistan. to date I haven't come across any news where Saudis would have had opened up their hi-tech equipment to Chinese or Russians to have a sneak peek and steal its secrets.

2. since the report states that both UK and US have share in the development of these precision bombs then there will be a monitory element involved as well in terms of the share of profit? secondly Americans are already sitting in eye watering $30 billion deal so it seems very cheap that they are putting hurdles in this relatively modest sale.

there has to be more than meet the eye.
as Musa has mentioned, its the ToT aspect that USA is not comfortable with. but since it has a stake and say in it and being a bigger cousin "across the pond". it can always put pressure on UK.

if UK sticks to its guns then Saudis might get exactly what they agreed with UK
otherwise UK might offer a toned down version of the bombs.

its up to the Saudis to allay US fears or reservations regrading the military acquisitions. American protectionism is well known and it has angered its F-35 partners when it comes to secret technology and know how. so American reaction doesn't seem to be Saudi specific.

Although presently Saudi military is heavily equipped with American technology but if USA continues with its current approach then shopping around and looking for less "anal" suppliers might not be a bad idea in the future.

 

[Mosamania]

I love how easily butt hurt you guys get at the mere mention of the word "Saudi" Hahahahahahaha

We are coming we are strong we are rich and we are a western ally. Deal with it. Thank God we are not a Russian ally we all are seeing how "awesome" they are in Syria. At least the west is the lesser of two evils if you ask me.

Paveways are going to rain death and destruction on our enemies

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I love how easily butt hurt you guys get at the mere mention of the word "Saudi" Hahahahahahaha

We are coming we are strong we are rich and we are a western ally. Deal with it. Thank God we are not a Russian ally we all are seeing how "awesome" they are in Syria. At least the west is the lesser of two evils if you ask me.

Paveways are going to rain death and destruction on our enemies

the affected party is US here. which seems to be putting roadblocks in this deal for no valid reasons (provided if the report is correct).


I cant contradict your claim about Western Military superiority over Russian specially when the Russian recipients never get the top of the line goodies. how good is that stuff is beyond me I am no expert there.

but if you use the same lol emotes and mention the word MKI in same sentence then you will be raged to death. if you know what I am saying.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Just to enlighten you PDF is a public forum where everybody expresses his/her opinions ...

Its not upto you to decide who's welcome in the thread or not ... If you disagree with what he said , just post a refutation and move on ...

Resorting to personal attacks results in being painted red by the moderators ...

And on your posts , yes its Arab money ( do not include yourself ) and we dont care what do they do with it , its just that we were telling people about the corruption and the lavish spending of the Zionist puppets The House of Saud ... But since when the Arabs have spent with moderation ?

What use do the Saudi Arabian army have for them though ? Last time , i checked they invited a whole coalition to defend themselves against another country's aggression ... So what use are these bombs ? Will the House of Saud again pay billions to US ( make it NATO ) if war breaks out in future and ask to lease some USAF pilots to drop these bombs on targets since they cant do it themselves ?

well first i didn't welcome him cuz i know he is pointless and never stick with topic me and him have along history. if you both were educated you would stick with the topic and discuses the main issue. second, its obvious that both of you are jealous all you guys talk about is money< hey its our cash $$ not yours > so don't put your hand in our pockets, you are talking about something that is not belong to anyone of you $$. regarding your other points are as usual pointless and you have no clue in what you are talking about just tripping again and again> i would like to thank both of you for making fun of yourself and you show people how ignorant both of you are>just to educate both of you a little about RSAF watch this

btw the video i have posted was a long time ago it was during the 2nd gulf war > so think of now

 

[Irfan Baloch]

just to educate both of you RSAF is one of the best air force in world its even much better than pakistan air force but i don't compare muslims nations capabilities cuz they drop in the benefit of all muslims nations its just FYI.

this is a fair point
I think RSAF is best equipped airforce among all Muslim countries.
in the region the only air force that is better equipped and more experience is Israeli air-force

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I recall the news on CNN when the RSAF F-15 pilot was making victory sign when he landed but that news was only about shooting down an Iraqi Cessna plane.
thats the only kill I was aware of in the first Gulf war that was made by the RSAF.

(bit double minded about celebrating the kill .. it was Iraq )

 

[Mosamania]

I recall the news on CNN when the RSAF F-15 pilot was making victory sign when he landed but that news was only about shooting down an Iraqi Cessna plane.
thats the only kill I was aware of in the first Gulf war that was made by the RSAF.

(bit double minded about celebrating the kill .. it was Iraq )

+350 First blood + Double Kill + offended &#65279;

Loved that comment. Saudi pilots have 4-0 history of Air to Air. 2 Iraqi Mirages and 2 Iranian F-4s.

 

[Arabian Legend]

this is a fair point
I think RSAF is best equipped airforce among all Muslim countries.
in the region the only air force that is better equipped and more experience is Israeli air-force

you may want to take a look at this





With its latest acquisitions from Washington and Europe, the Saudi Air Force will have more fighter-bombers of more advanced models that the Israeli Air Force. Deep concern over this was recently relayed by Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak to President Barack Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta.
DEBKAfile's Washington and military sources that Israel made its concern known with the utmost discretion so as not to be seen as hampering the expansion of the Saudi Royal Air Force as Riyadh gets set to tackle Tehran should Saudi oil exports be sabotaged by Iranian attacks on its oil production or the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, its primary export outlet.

Last month, the US agreed to sell Saudi Arabia 84 advanced F-15SA fighter-bombers worth $29.4 billion. First deliveries are due in 2015. The package included the upgrading of 70 F-15 planes of the Saudi air fleet. Riyadhis also buying 72 advanced Eurofighter Typhoon fighter bombers. All in all, the oil kingdom will have the largest and most sophisticated fighter-bomber fleet in the Middle East.

Israel leaders reminded the Obama administration of its standing pledge to maintain Israel's qualitative military edge in the region. The aircraft supplied to the Saudis will place that edge in doubt.
They voiced two additional causes for concern:

1. One fine day, Saudi Arabia, which has never agreed to peace relations with Israel, may be moved to attack the Jewish state from an air base very close to Israel's shores. That proximity and the size and quality of its air force will allow dozens of warplanes to penetrate Israel's air defenses and drop bombs on southern and central Israel.

2. Israel also fears that four or five Saudi pilots or hired Islamist fliers may one day form an al Qaeda cell inside the Saudi Air Force and conspire to carry out a suicide attack on Israeli cities on the model of al Qaeda's 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington, most of whose participants were Saudis.

Israeli intelligence officials in close touch with American counterparts asked them if Washington had asked for Saudi assurances about the reliability of the air crews who will man the new F-15SA planes. They were told that no such guarantees had been requested.

For now, Israel has brought its concerns to the notice of the Obama administration without making specific requests to hold up delivery. Israel is conscious that the Gulf region is on tenterhooks over its security and the Saudis are deep in military preparations to beat back potentially aggressive Iranian moves in the wake of the oil embargo approved by the US and the European Union against Tehran's nuclear program.

Jerusalem also takes into consideration the importance to the flagging American economy of the huge warplane transaction with the Saudis which will support 50,000 jobs in the US air industry and 600 American contractors of aircraft parts.

Obama will certainly not be approachable on this issue while running for re-election.
But none of these considerations allays the deep anxiety prevailing in the top echelons of Israel's high military and air command over the radical upgrade awarded Saudi air power providing it with the capacity to outclass and outgun Israel.

 

[Bhairava]

When KSA gets its new Eagles Israelis would be manning F-35s.

ISrael's edge is maintained and some nice oil money transferred to Boeing

 

[SQ8]

The Saudi's are arming themselves against the Persians.. and that is that.
There is no god or prophet in their minds.. nor is the illusion of using that to mask what this really is.
Its simple 4000 years old Arab-Persian Rivalry.
Calling it Shia-Sunni or Muslim-Heretic is lie to oneself...
There is however.. no harm in acknowledging it.. as it will actually lead to a resolution of issues faster.

As for the RSAF... its usually been the more professional arm of the Saudi Defense Forces..and the more balanced.
Unlike SANG which can be brutal and without conscience in its execution of the monarchy's orders.

ALSO.
Those serving in these forces are Muslims... and to doubt..that given the call to defend their religion over..say an element within the monarchy that is acting against the interests of Islam.. is foolish.
Do not doubt the effectiveness of what is in their hearts...
These are Muslim Soldiers.. who under the right leadership will be Soldiers of Islam.

On the equipment purchase.. I find it rather amusing that the Americans would take issue over weapons sales for oil.
Since the F-15SA is also going to be a formidable strike aircraft.. and is Paveway equipped...why object here.
If there is too much of an issue.. SA should just order more Paveways for its F-15's and then use them on the Saudifighter Typhoon.. after all.. who cares about the EULA ?

 

[Mosamania]

The Saudi's are arming themselves against the Persians.. and that is that.
There is no god or prophet in their minds.. nor is the illusion of using that to mask what this really is.
Its simple 4000 years old Arab-Persian Rivalry.
Calling it Shia-Sunni or Muslim-Heretic is lie to oneself...
There is however.. no harm in acknowledging it.. as it will actually lead to a resolution of issues faster.

As for the RSAF... its usually been the more professional arm of the Saudi Defense Forces..and the more balanced.
Unlike SANG which can be brutal and without conscience in its execution of the monarchy's orders.

ALSO.
Those serving in these forces are Muslims... and to doubt..that given the call to defend their religion over..say an element within the monarchy that is acting against the interests of Islam.. is foolish.
Do not doubt the effectiveness of what is in their hearts...
These are Muslim Soldiers.. who under the right leadership will be Soldiers of Islam.

On the equipment purchase.. I find it rather amusing that the Americans would take issue over weapons sales for oil.
Since the F-15SA is also going to be a formidable strike aircraft.. and is Paveway equipped...why object here.
If there is too much of an issue.. SA should just order more Paveways for its F-15's and then use them on the Saudifighter Typhoon.. after all.. who cares about the EULA ?

US actually has no problem with the purchase their problem is the paveway technology it is both laser guided and GPS guided and the most advanced in it's kind so tue US has a problem because it contains some US tech in it. The same problem they had with the ToT of the Typhoon but we got it anyways.

KSA wants to build a formidable defense industry utilizing TOT of the most advanced weapons ever created.