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U.K., U.S. at Odds Over Saudi Deal

Arabian Legend

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LONDON — British efforts to seal a major deal with Saudi Arabia for precision-guided bombs appears to be stalled by U.S. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), according to sources here and in Washington.

The deal to sell Paveway IV weapons developed by Raytheon’s U.K. arm has been on the table since mid-2010, but the U.S. State Department has rebuffed British efforts to secure ITAR approval despite high-level intervention by the government here, the sources said.

News that the British and U.S. governments are at odds over the issue comes just days after a successful meeting in Washington between President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron in which military and security cooperation were at the top of the agenda.

“It’s possible there was some discussion on the issue over the last few days in the sidelines of the visit,” said one Washington source.

The impasse over a deal that would involve selling an initial batch of more than 1,000 bombs to the Royal Saudi Air Force is causing friction between London and Washington and infuriating the Saudis, the sources said. Saudi Arabia is among America’s largest defense export markets, having recently signed a $30 billion weapons deal with the U.S.

The British weapon is initially intended for use on Tornado strike jets. If the weapon is cleared for sale to the Saudis, it would also be fitted onto the 72 Eurofighter Typhoons being delivered to the Saudis by BAE Systems as part of the Al-Salam program.

It is unclear exactly what technology security issues are blocking the deal. Saudi Arabia already operates earlier versions of the Paveway family. Raytheon announced in January 2011 that it had signed a $457 million deal with Saudi Arabia for the delivery of Paveways, but never specified which members of the Paveway family were involved in the deal.

Spokesmen for Raytheon and the British government’s export arm, the Defence Security Organisation, both declined to comment on the ITAR block by the U.S. government.

The Raytheon spokesman said, “we will have to refer you to the U.S. government.” A U.S. State Department spokesman was not immediately available to comment.

Official confirmation that the precision bomb sale was an issue came from Britain’s defense attaché in Washington, Maj. Gen. Buster Howes.

Asked at a conference in Washington, where he was speaking last week, whether there had been any movement with the State Department on the Paveway IV problem, Howes said, “I know there have been discussions ... but I don’t know if there has been any progress.”

A new U.K./U.S. Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty easing the flow of technology between the two sides is scheduled to be put in place at the end of this month.

The new weapon being offered to the Royal Saudi Air Force was developed by a team of U.K. and U.S. Raytheon engineers to meet a British Royal Air Force requirement to equip its jets with an advanced version of the Paveway system fitted to a 500-pound warhead.

Featuring laser and GPS guidance with the latest Raytheon-developed anti-GPS jamming equipment, the weapon entered service with the British Royal Air Force in 2008 and has been widely used by the RAF in Afghanistan and most recently in Libya.

The British announced last week that they were spending 60 million pounds ($95.1 million) to replenish stocks of the weapon, which is cleared for use only by the RAF’s Tornado GR4 strike jets, although integration of the bomb on the Typhoon is well advanced with an expected in-service date of September 2013.

defensenews
 
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when money talks b**** walk ma man that the situation with the US > our advantage here is to push forward to get the f35 in this case we will get the paveway.

During the last airshow at Dubai some UAE officials indirectly expressed that they were interested in F-35 for their Air Force. But it was still in very very early stages.
 
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During the last airshow at Dubai some UAE officials indirectly expressed that they were interested in F-35 for their Air Force. But it was still in very very early stages.
I guess any country who wants to go bankrupt shold try to get F-35 for their Airforce from the US.....:smokin:
 
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The whole objection is about the ToT and the license production of UK's most advanced bomb we already make this under license in large quantities by AEC however this is a more advanced version so US is afraid we will gain the tech to make ourselves independent from their GBUs which is the plan all along to transfer tech:
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Seriously lately if you guys haven't noticed we are getting extremely greedy regarding ToT if I was the US I would be $hitting bricks as well.
 
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Seriously lately if you guys haven't noticed we are getting extremely greedy regarding ToT if I was the US I would be $hitting bricks as well.

No matter what, but some still don't believe it or let us say don't want to read about it :D
 
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The whole objection is about the ToT and the license production of UK's most advanced bomb we already make this under license in large quantities by AEC however this is a more advanced version so US is afraid we will gain the tech to make ourselves independent from their GBUs which is the plan all along to transfer tech:

Seriously lately if you guys haven't noticed we are getting extremely greedy regarding ToT if I was the US I would be $hitting bricks as well.

does that include the paveway with gps guidence as well.
 
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you are not welcome in this thread btw > its our money we give it , we burn it, we do what the hell we want with it so stick your nose in you pants.

lick it if you don't like it period.

Bit hot under the collar mate this is a public forum. As a Pakistani I would say I have as much right if not more than you.

Now tell me how much are Al Saud princes going to steal lol

btw it is not your money. It is the Arabs money. Not yours and not Al sauds

Just to assist forum members that they don't have to click on any links please see this article

BAE accused of secretly paying £1bn to Saudi prince

David Leigh and Rob Evans
The Guardian, Thursday 7 June 2007 09.30 BST

The arms company BAE secretly paid Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia more than £1bn in connection with Britain's biggest ever weapons contract, it is alleged today.

A series of payments from the British firm was allegedly channelled through a US bank in Washington to an account controlled by one of the most colourful members of the Saudi ruling clan, who spent 20 years as their ambassador in the US.

It is claimed that payments of £30m were paid to Prince Bandar every quarter for at least 10 years.

It is alleged by insider legal sources that the money was paid to Prince Bandar with the knowledge and authorisation of Ministry of Defence officials under the Blair government and its predecessors. For more than 20 years, ministers have claimed they knew nothing of secret commissions, which were outlawed by Britain in 2002.

An inquiry by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) into the transactions behind the £43bn Al-Yamamah arms deal, which was signed in 1985, is understood to have uncovered details of the payments to Prince Bandar.

But the investigation was halted last December by the SFO after a review by the attorney general, Lord Goldsmith.

He said it was in Britain's national interest to halt the investigation, and that there was little prospect of achieving convictions.

Tony Blair said he took "full responsibility" for the decision.

However, according to those familiar with the discussions at the time, Lord Goldsmith had warned colleagues that British "government complicity" was in danger of being revealed unless the SFO's corruption inquiries were stopped.

The abandonment of the investigation provoked an outcry from anti-corruption campaigners, and led to the world's official bribery watchdog, the OECD, launching its own investigation.

The fresh allegations may also cause BAE problems in America, where corrupt payments to foreign politicians have been outlawed since 1977.

The allegations of payments to Prince Bandar is bound to ignite fresh controversy over the original deal and the aborted SFO investigation.

The Saudi diplomat is known to have played a key role with Mrs Thatcher in setting up Britain's biggest ever series of weapons deals.

For more than 20 years Al-Yamamah, Arabic for "dove", has involved the sale of 120 Tornado aircraft, Hawk warplanes and other military equipment.

According to legal sources familiar with the records, BAE Systems made cash transfers to Prince Bandar every three months for 10 years or more.

BAE drew the money from a confidential account held at the Bank of England that had been set up to facilitate the Al-Yamamah deal. Up to £2bn a year was deposited in the accounts as part of a complex arrangement allowing Saudi oil to be sold in return for shipments of Tornado aircraft and other arms.

Both BAE and the government's arms sales department, the Defence Export Services Organisation (Deso), allegedly had drawing rights on the funds, which were held in a special Ministry of Defence account run by the government banker, the paymaster general.

Those close to Deso say regular payments were drawn down by BAE and despatched to Prince Bandar's account at Riggs bank in Washington DC.

Under the terms of a previously unknown MoD instruction from the department's permanent secretary, Sir Frank Cooper, the payment deal would have required Deso authorisation.

The money was not characterised as commission, but as quasi-official fees for marketing services. The payments are alleged to have continued for at least 10 years and beyond 2002, when Britain outlawed corrupt payments to overseas officials.

SFO investigators led by assistant director Helen Garlick first stumbled on the alleged payments, according to legal sources, when they unearthed highly classified documents at the MoD during their three-year investigation.

Before the investigation was abandoned, the SFO interviewed Alan Garwood, head of Deso. Sources close to the arms sales unit say that he and Stephen Pollard, the commercial director of the Saudi project, were questioned about the reasons for authorising the payments.

Prince Bandar, currently head of the country's national security council, was asked about the alleged payments by the Guardian this week.

He did not respond.

BAE Systems also would not explain the alleged payments. The company said: "Your approach is in common with that of the least responsible elements of the media - that is to assume BAE Systems' guilt in complete ignorance of the facts."

Its spokesman, John Neilson, added: "We have little doubt that among the reasons the attorney general considered the case was doomed was the fact that we acted in accordance with ... the relevant contracts, with the approval of the government of Saudi Arabia, together with, where relevant, that of the UK MoD."

The attorney general's office would not discuss claims about Lord Goldsmith's concerns of "government complicity" in the payments.

A spokesman said the SFO inquiry had been halted because of the "real and serious threat to national security".

"There were major legal difficulties ... given BAE's claim that the payments were made in accordance with the agreed contractual arrangements". The spokesman added: "None of this is altered by the Guardian story."

The MoD, where minister Paul Drayson runs Britain's government arms sales unit, also refused to elaborate.

"The MoD is unable to respond to the points made ... since to do so would involve disclosing confidential information about Al-Yamamah, and that would cause the damage that ending the investigation was designed to prevent," a spokesman said.

The Liberal Democrat deputy leader, Vince Cable, called for an urgent inquiry into the new disclosures last night.

"This is potentially more significant and damaging than anything previously revealed. It is unforgivable if the British government has been actively conniving in under-the-counter payments to a major figure in the Saudi government.

"There must be a full parliamentary inquiry into whether the government has deceived the public and undermined the anti-corruption legislation which it itself passed through parliament."

He added: "It increasingly looks as if the motives behind the decision to pull the SFO inquiry were less to do with UK national interests but more to do with the personal interests of one of two powerful Saudi ministers ... Tony Blair's claims that the government has been motivated by national security considerations look increasingly hollow."

Last month, Dr Cable raised the issue of BAE in the Commons and accused Prince Bandar of benefiting personally from the Al-Yamamah deal.

The new disclosures may also make BAE's attempted takeover of the US-based Armor Holdings more difficult. The deal requires approval from US regulators.

Separately, the state department has protested to the Foreign Office about the ending of the SFO inquiry, saying it undermines global efforts to stamp out corruption by exporters.

Story of a £43bn deal

1985 Al-Yamamah agreement signed by Saudi defence minister Prince Sultan and the then defence secretary Michael Heseltine. Saudis agree to buy 72 Tornado and 30 Hawk warplanes. The deal - "the dove" in Arabic - will in time be worth £43bn to BAE

1989 National Audit Office (NAO) starts inquiry into allegations that members of Saudi royal family and middlemen were secretly paid huge bribes to land Al-Yamamah contract

1992 MPs and auditor general Sir John Bourn suppress NAO report after government claims it would upset Saudis. Report never published

2001 Whistleblower alleges BAE operates "slush fund" to keep sweet the Saudi prince in charge of country's air force, but MoD covers up allegations

2004 Second whistleblower discloses to Guardian further details of slush fund. Serious Fraud Office starts investigation into alleged BAE corruption

2006 Government halts SFO inquiry; investigators were about to gain access to Swiss accounts thought to have been linked to Saudi royal family

2007 OECD, the world's anti-bribery watchdog, rebukes Blair government for terminating SFO investigation, and launches own inquiry
 
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Bit hot under the collar mate this is a public forum. As a Pakistani I would say I have as much right if not more than you.

Now tell me how much are Al Saud princes going to steal lol

btw it is not your money. It is the Arabs money. Not yours and not Al sauds

what a funny post > its arab money since when and btw i don't consider Khomaini's follower as Pakistani. just to let you know as far as we the saudis are satisfied we don't give a daaaam sh!t how much money your masters are stealing.
 
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you are not welcome in this thread btw > its our money we give it , we burn it, we do what the hell we want with it so stick your nose in you pants.

Just to enlighten you PDF is a public forum where everybody expresses his/her opinions ...

Its not upto you to decide who's welcome in the thread or not ... If you disagree with what he said , just post a refutation and move on ...

Resorting to personal attacks results in being painted red by the moderators ...

And on your posts , yes its Arab money ( do not include yourself :lol:) and we dont care what do they do with it , its just that we were telling people about the corruption and the lavish spending of the Zionist puppets The House of Saud ... But since when the Arabs have spent with moderation ? :azn:

What use do the Saudi Arabian army have for them though ? Last time , i checked they invited a whole coalition to defend themselves against another country's aggression ... So what use are these bombs ? Will the House of Saud again pay billions to US ( make it NATO ) if war breaks out in future and ask to lease some USAF pilots to drop these bombs on targets since they cant do it themselves ? :rofl:
 
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Just to enlighten you PDF is a public forum where everybody expresses his/her opinions ...

Its not upto you to decide who's welcome in the thread or not ... If you disagree with what he said , just post a refutation and move on ...

Resorting to personal attacks results in being painted red by the moderators ...

And on your posts , yes its Arab money ( do not include yourself :lol:) and we dont care what do they do with it , its just that we were telling people about the corruption and the lavish spending of the Zionist puppets The House of Saud ... But since when the Arabs have spent with moderation ? :azn:

What use do the Saudi Arabian army have for them though ? Last time , i checked they invited a coalition to defend themselves against another country's aggression ... So what use are these bombs ? Will the S.Arabian army again pay billions to US this time too and lease some USAF pilots to drop these bombs on targets since they cant do it themselves ? :rofl:

Post of the day.
 
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Aryan_B, this is not the Thread to kick-start the discussion regarding saudi regime you may open it World Affairs Section.

The Legend, I think on ocassions US has refused weapons-systems to RSA in the past, It would be a very potential good deal for UK-RSA. Unlikely for US would block this deal on the other hand this deal could be changed into part of Euro Fighter package:D what is US going to do..
 
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Aryan_B, this is not the Thread to kick-start the discussion regarding saudi regime you may open it World Affairs Section.

mosamaina, I think on ocassions US has refused weapons-systems to RSA in the past, It would be a very potential good deal for UK-RSA. Unlikely for US would block this deal on the other hand this deal could be changed into part of Euro Fighter package:D what is US going to do..

Mate this is about Saud weapon deals:

BAE accused of secretly paying £1bn to Saudi prince | World news | The Guardian
 
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