Typhoon, Rafale no match for China’s J-20

[帅的一匹]

nah... j20 is a long range bomber with canards(increase RCS) which for some reason is called "stealth" and i am guessing can be shot down by a mig21 bison
no need to insult rafale by comparing the 2

J20 has 40% more inner fuel than F22. You don't mind those Bison cause it will varnish by dropping like coffin very soon.

 

[Shinigami]

J20 has 40% more inner fuel than F22. You don't mind those Bison cause it will varnish by dropping like coffin very soon.

it has more fuel because like i said, its a bomber.

and you are underestimating mig21 bison the IAF has. do some research on it

 

[ENRL]

I have read quite a few of your posts. You are a 'master of missing the point'. What makes the J20 a chinese plane? (other than it used chinese labour to be assembled). The design was stolen/copied from something out of the west that appeared 20 years back. Chinese still try and steal to this day. China has had Russian help and other help by stealing/other means apart from original R&D. So don't start feeling too proud yet. China has acquired a certain capability now, from other countries. Both countries (China/India)have not contributed to this field(aero) as much as the west has so far. They have been lagging and will continue to lag for sometime in the future. Yes, you can shorten that period if you steal or sign some kind of technology sharing deal. So, what's the point of making a comment like that?

Regarding the article, the point being made is a comparison of 'assets'. If there was a conflict, how do IAF assets match PLAAF assets. It does not matter if those assets were bought from Russia (RD derivative engines/ Sukhoi clones) or from the West (India). That is the assessment that people try to usually do.

LOL, we have Indians here desperately arguing for the merits of a Western plane vs. a Chinese plane.

But wait a second... what about Indian planes?

I'm sure the Westerners appreciate the Indians arguing for them (in between using their credit ratings agencies to downgrade India)... but why not have some Indians arguing for their own planes for once?

 

[rocket55]

J20 entering production stage
December 25th saw the unveiling of a new J-20 fighter in fresh yellow fuselage primer on the runway of the Chengdu Aviation Corporation (CAC) factory. More notable than its paint color, however, was the numbering of the plane: "2101." As opposed to "2018" or "2019" to follow the eighth flying prototype "2017," "2101" suggests the plane is the first of the low rate initial production (LRIP) airframes, which signify the move away from prototype production to building fighters for actual military use.

 

[wiseone2]

LOL, we have Indians here desperately arguing for the merits of a Western plane vs. a Chinese plane.

But wait a second... what about Indian planes?

I'm sure the Westerners appreciate the Indians arguing for them (in between using their credit ratings agencies to downgrade India)... but why not have some Indians arguing for their own planes for once?

a bullet is a bullet ... does it matter who makes it ? it is an advantage to make your own bullets. when the need arises purchase them from someone who can make it.

 

[Vergennes]

Rafale is sitting ducks when face J20

We do not have any reliable sources on the capabilities of the J-20. Even the Chinese officials don't talk much about the capabilities of their projects. So better to avoid these bogus claims as of now,and claiming "Looolz J-20 iz ze besst rest suckzz....",because it is useless..... really !.

france can't afford to build a 5th gen fighter on its own.

We could build an European 5th gen fighter with our European partners,but it would be a political nightmare,and everyone has different needs. (We saw it with the Eurofighter program and how France developed it's own instead.)
-
In fact we consider that the future will be in unmanned aircrafts,that's why we are developing stealth UCAVs....
BTW,Rafale will continue to be upgraded with the best available which will enhance its capabilities. (the latest version is the F3.R)

The new F3R standard Rafale will include a new-generation laser targeting pod and major software changes. The upgrades will complement the enhanced Thales RBE2 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar which will allow the aircraft to deploy the MBDA Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), along with improvements to the aircraft’s Thales SPECTRA self-defence system and Mode-5/Mode-S-compatible Identification Friend or Foe interrogator/transponder.

No one want Rafale except India

1 year later......
48 units were sold to two countries. (24 for Egypt,24 for Qatar,with an option for 16 more aircrafts.)
+ Ad the future Indian orders. (36 in the first time.)
-
Many countries were interested in buying the aircraft,but most couldn't afford it.

even Gripen NG socres much better sales than Rafale.

Gripen NG isn't even in service and the only country that bought it is Brazil at 36 units. (Given the current economic situation of Brazil,i doubt they'll buy more in the near future.)

If you can't sell your product, all you need to do is selling it to India.

You do know that India is buying the best from the most important (Russians,Americans,Europeans) Defence companies ?
In fact,everyone wants its share in the indian market.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @Aminroop @dadeechi @proud_indian @AUSTERLITZ

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Wake us up when J20 gets an actual engine.

 

[dadeechi]

We do not have any reliable sources on the capabilities of the J-20. Even the Chinese officials don't talk much about the capabilities of their projects. So better to avoid these bogus claims as of now.
So claiming "Looolz J-20 iz ze besst rest suckzz...."



We could build an European 5th gen fighter with our European partners,but it would be a political nightmare,and everyone has different needs. (We saw it with the Eurofighter program and how France developed it's own instead.)
-
In fact we consider that the future will be in unmanned aircrafts,that's why we are developing stealth UCAVs....
BTW,Rafale will continue to be upgraded with the best available which will enhance its capabilities. (the latest version is the F3.R)

The new F3R standard Rafale will include a new-generation laser targeting pod and major software changes. The upgrades will complement the enhanced Thales RBE2 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar which will allow the aircraft to deploy the MBDA Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), along with improvements to the aircraft’s Thales SPECTRA self-defence system and Mode-5/Mode-S-compatible Identification Friend or Foe interrogator/transponder.




1 year later......
48 units were sold to two countries. (24 for Egypt,24 for Qatar,with an option for 16 more aircrafts.)
+ Ad the future Indian orders. (36 in the first time.)
-
Many countries were interested in buying the aircraft,but most couldn't afford it.



Gripen NG isn't even in service and the only country that bought it is Brazil at 36 units. (Given the current economic situation of Brazil,i doubt they'll buy more in the near future.)



You do know that India is buying the best from the most important (Russians,Americans,Europeans) Defence companies ?
In fact,everyone wants its share in the indian market.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @Aminroop @dadeechi @proud_indian @AUSTERLITZ

Amazing how some haters/jealous can make such BS claims.

The below two articles illustrate the current state of J-20 and why SU-35 are being procured.

Tensions along South China Sea hastened Su-35 deal - The Hindu

China appears ready to begin mass production of first stealth fighter jet, state media suggest | South China Morning Post

 

[Swastika]

I think it would be more appropriate to compare J20 with the Indian HAL Produced Marut and it is highly likely that Marut would beat the PANTS off of J20. Three Cheers for Indian Technology.

thank you brothers !

 

[Abingdonboy]

We do not have any reliable sources on the capabilities of the J-20. Even the Chinese officials don't talk much about the capabilities of their projects. So better to avoid these bogus claims as of now.
So claiming "Looolz J-20 iz ze besst rest suckzz...."



We could build an European 5th gen fighter with our European partners,but it would be a political nightmare,and everyone has different needs. (We saw it with the Eurofighter program and how France developed it's own instead.)
-
In fact we consider that the future will be in unmanned aircrafts,that's why we are developing stealth UCAVs....
BTW,Rafale will continue to be upgraded with the best available which will enhance its capabilities. (the latest version is the F3.R)

The new F3R standard Rafale will include a new-generation laser targeting pod and major software changes. The upgrades will complement the enhanced Thales RBE2 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar which will allow the aircraft to deploy the MBDA Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), along with improvements to the aircraft’s Thales SPECTRA self-defence system and Mode-5/Mode-S-compatible Identification Friend or Foe interrogator/transponder.




1 year later......
48 units were sold to two countries. (24 for Egypt,24 for Qatar,with an option for 16 more aircrafts.)
+ Ad the future Indian orders. (36 in the first time.)
-
Many countries were interested in buying the aircraft,but most couldn't afford it.



Gripen NG isn't even in service and the only country that bought it is Brazil at 36 units. (Given the current economic situation of Brazil,i doubt they'll buy more in the near future.)



You do know that India is buying the best from the most important (Russians,Americans,Europeans) Defence companies ?
In fact,everyone wants its share in the indian market.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA @anant_s @Aminroop @dadeechi @proud_indian @AUSTERLITZ

Amazing how some haters/jealous can make such BS claims.

I don't get involved in J-20/31 threads these days- the level of fanboyism is just too high for a defence forum. Few are interested in conducting a reasoned analysis of the J-XXs, instead they are looking purely at superfical elements such as "looks". When you ask these experts how it is that China has leapfrogged advanced industrial nations in this feild such as France, Russia and even the US with decades R&D under their belt they have no answer other than "China is the best". This is a nation who is still yet to have a operational jet engine in service. Addtionally, aside from "stealthiness" few are interested in discussing the heart of modern fighters- their on board electronic systems. China makes a very "cool" looking shell, but that is all it is. When the F-22 doesn't even feature a system as powerful as the SPECTRA suite I will not accept China has devloped such a rival until it is proven they have stolen its designs (as they did with the F-35).

Look at China's record to date- J-11/15 (Flanker clones and illegal ones at that), J-10 (IAI Lavi), F-7 (MiG-21) and JF-17 ("Super Mig-21") they have gone from that to outdeveloping the world's best?

Not only are the Chinese members deluding themselves but they are joined by their Pakistani cheerleaders.

 

[rcrmj]

I don't get involved in J-20/31 threads these days- the level of fanboyism is just too high for a defence forum. Few are interested in conducting a reasoned analysis of the J-XXs, instead they are looking purely at superfical elements such as "looks". When you ask these experts how it is that China has leapfrogged advanced industrial nations in this feild such as France, Russia and even the US with decades R&D under their belt they have no answer other than "China is the best". This is a nation who is still yet to have a operational jet engine in service. Addtionally, aside from "stealthiness" few are interested in discussing the heart of modern fighters- their on board electronic systems. China makes a very "cool" looking shell, but that is all it is. When the F-22 doesn't even feature a system as powerful as the SPECTRA suite I will not accept China has devloped such a rival until it is proven they have stolen its designs (as they did with the F-35).

Look at China's record to date- J-11/15 (Flanker clones and illegal ones at that), J-10 (IAI Lavi), F-7 (MiG-21) and JF-17 ("Super Mig-21") they have gone from that to outdeveloping the world's best?

Not only are the Chinese members deluding themselves but they are joined by their Pakistani cheerleaders.

lol, the chief deluded calling others fanboyism and deluded ?

you are the keen defender of the lousy LCA and cheap copies of Kalashnikov, SS-N-26, SA-6 or with rest all of your Hindu 'white elephants' ``no matter what length you want to go through to defend your Indian high tech and military industry````cant change the fact that India is a good 30 years behind China and 50 years behind the West in these fields ``

and to be honest your 'knowledge' on military fields are as naive as Indian's delusion of 'India shining' and such nonsense```

I really hope these kind of old threads can keep going for years, so we can all see how clownish, ignorant and deluded Indian are in reality``

Naive Indian think that state of art techs can be 'stolen' and made of our own, just like how Indian stealing drug formula around world to make cheap copies of drugs``?

let me tell you kid, it takes wit, technological know-how, excellent planning/strategy, R&D infrastructure, dedication, fund and talented people to make that happening, and India seems lack at any of these elements, as simple as that

 

[Irfan Baloch]

LAST WARNING
STAY CIVIL & AVOID EXPLETIVES OR CHEAP NAME CALLING.

 

[anant_s]

Wake us up when J20 gets an actual engine.

Sir
With RD 33 or WS 10, how do you analyse the IR signature of J 20.
I mean the RCS could be low, but for a fighter to be truly stealthy, all sorts of signature aspects need to be taken care off. I'm not sure if this case is taken care with either Russian or Chinese engine, in service with J 20.

 

[anant_s]

The new F3R standard Rafale will include a new-generation laser targeting pod and major software changes. The upgrades will complement the enhanced Thales RBE2 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar which will allow the aircraft to deploy the MBDA Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), along with improvements to the aircraft’s Thales SPECTRA self-defence system and Mode-5/Mode-S-compatible Identification Friend or Foe interrogator/transponder.

Rafale is in a class of its own and given the development program of it, we are looking at a world beating product. The only thing that goes against it is perhaps the cost.
Second why are we comparing Rafale and EFT with a product that is designed as next generation design. To my mind it looks like a commercial advertising campaign of trying to attract potential customers who might be dabbling between very advanced generation 4.5 fighters and 5 products. J 20 might come at a similar cost to Rafale or EFT, but we must takra into cognizance that Rafale has proved in worth in real world combat. also not everybody would be looking at generation 5 fighters right now and given this transitionary period of next 10-12 years, we can see more such statements coming out to appeal customers.
PS at this moment i'll put my money on Rafale.

 

[HariPrasad]

J20 entering production stage
December 25th saw the unveiling of a new J-20 fighter in fresh yellow fuselage primer on the runway of the Chengdu Aviation Corporation (CAC) factory. More notable than its paint color, however, was the numbering of the plane: "2101." As opposed to "2018" or "2019" to follow the eighth flying prototype "2017," "2101" suggests the plane is the first of the low rate initial production (LRIP) airframes, which signify the move away from prototype production to building fighters for actual military use.

Last time when I read, J 20 had problem with each of its part. engines are mounted too close. They causes vibration. Its weapon bay is designed faultily. Fuselage design has a problem so as cockpit. Except nosecone design each part has a problem.

I wish you guys a good luck for successful production of J 20.