Two Pakistani transgenders tortured to death in Saudi Arabia

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

RIP to the victims , and it is job for the embassy to grant special passes to the people with certain , differences in Physicality or Behavior which is beyond our control

There is no medicine to make a Transgener person into a 100% male or female

If someone is physically different member then your standard "male" or "female" definition then you can't impose laws on such folks

It is almost as bad as beating up a disabled person , when I say they are disabled I refer to them not being in a position to determine their own reality as one gender. The physical or mental / psychalogical aspect of the problem is not treatable.

I am sure if someone asked the folks do you prefer you were born in a definitive sex, then of course they would say why not, we would not have to face verbal abuse and face other social stigmas. I am sure they would claim yes I wish I was one sex this or the other , that way I would lead normal life

But their body / mind is not your normal entity which is born in a normal child birth. Some of these folks don't control their own destiny start from child birth

 

[BATMAN]

Now look at the same through another point of view that what if they were involved in some kind of illegal activities hence, apprehended by law of the land.

You may look from various point of views... but discussion must be based on ET news.

 

[Trango Towers]

good move Saudi
Men dressed as women is against the religion of Islam and must be dealt with harshly just like sodomites death is the cure if your a nasty freak

Dirty freaks taking there nastiness to the holy land

I used to think like you but then I was fortunate enough to speak with some and found that they are lost in gender identity. This maybe an illness etc.
After all Allah created these people like this. They have an identity crisis and should we beat them to death. What Islam is this? The Islam I know is a religion of mercy, compassion and forgiveness. Some Muslims want mercy from Allah but won't even give it to a chicken when they slaughter it let alone a human being.

I may not agree with these people but I would never harm them. This is not the way of Islam

 

[The Eagle]

Why this criminal silence on this issue ?

Foreign Office need to come forth with seeking information that what and why this happened.

I would not believe in presence of such law in Saudi, even worse confirming it, unless i ensure about it.

That was meant by law against illegal activities that they were arrested, not because of Islamic Law. May be my sentence was a bit complicated (using cellphone). There is no anti-transgender law but this is more about breaking the law of the land however, nothing justify those killings without due process. IMO, need to wait for details and our foreign office has to come up with everything for the citizen.

You may look from various point of views... but discussion must be based on ET news.

Thanks for the reminder though I was sharing my observations with the member in quote.

 

[Russell]

I used to think like you but then I was fortunate enough to speak with some and found that they are lost in gender identity. This maybe an illness etc.
After all Allah created these people like this. They have an identity crisis and should we beat them to death. What Islam is this? The Islam I know is a religion of mercy, compassion and forgiveness. Some Muslims want mercy from Allah but won't even give it to a chicken when they slaughter it let alone a human being.

I may not agree with these people but I would never harm them. This is not the way of Islam

Islam as it always has been is fine.

Unfortunately those who practice the religion - us as muslims are not so fine.

The peaceful, forgiving and compassionate side of our faith has been forced to take a backseat

 

[Trango Towers]

Islam as it always has been is fine.

Unfortunately those who practice the religion - us as muslims are not so fine.

The peaceful, forgiving and compassionate side of our faith has been forced to take a backseat

Sadly I agree wholeheartedly with you.
I would go on to say Islam has been hijacked by extreme Muslims and non Muslims

 

[BATMAN]

Authorities here, must share details of their visit with purpose as it shouldn't be business I hope.

I doubt business... you don't get Saudi visa for business, unless you are $multi million investor or invited by local company as a specialist of certain imported machine.
Transgenders have little chance of winning Saudi tourist visa... which may have been a news on this occasion.
See... having knowledge of stuff, help in not getting astray with speculations.

 

[The Eagle]

I doubt business... you don't get Saudi visa for business, unless you are $multi million investor or invited by local company as a specialist of certain imported machine.
Transgenders have little chance of winning Saudi tourist visa... which may have been a news on this occasion.
See... having knowledge of stuff, help in not getting astray with speculations.

I used business word for other means not the billionaire thing. You misread my statement, see a thorough view can create a misunderstanding like this. What make you think that I would be seeing them transgenders as business tycoons in KSA. That was a hint but you couldn't take it so I must say, just leave it that way.

Transgenders are not allowed on visit, yeah it's obvious too. There was a sentence that I typed, these transgenders cannot be treated as innocent always so let's wait for the details. Rest about killing, that is totally illegal, as far as the Matter seems to be.

 

[BATMAN]

man love is big issue in Saudi Arabia because of their harsh conservative society

No its not a big issue... i don't know what's the basis of your information!
conservative they are... in any case, law of state has last word and even above (rare occasion) royal pardon can over rule harshest of punishments.

I used business word for other means not the billionaire thing. You misread my statement, see a thorough view can create a misunderstanding like this. What make you think that I would be seeing them transgenders as business tycoons in KSA. That was a hint but you couldn't take it so I must say, just leave it that way.

Transgenders are not allowed on visit, yeah it's obvious too. There was a sentence that I typed, these transgenders cannot be treated as innocent always so let's wait for the details. Rest about killing, that is totally illegal, as far as the Matter seems to be.

You made a speech which is there for every one to read, unfortunately i commented on simple part which i understood out of it.
Since i know about Saudi visa types, like most of Pakistanis. I liked to clarify bussiness trip possibility.
It's true, with bussiness i understand only bussiness!
However, there's no restrictions on transgenders to visit Saudi on bussiness or tourism, but how many transgenders from globe would like to invest and choose to have holidays in Saudi... odds are suerly not in favor. There i based my counter assupmtion, hence my remarks.
I even doubt ET as a source, i was basically taken away by seeing so much of enthusiism and even people requesting particularly you, to take revenge !!

Killing sure is 100% un-Islamic and it is strictly observed in KSA. We should suerly witness action in comming days, if news is true.

 

[terry5]

It is haram for women to imitate men and men to imitate women in the way they dress, because the Prophet (sallalhu 'alayhe wa sallam) cursed the men who imitate women and the women who imitate men." [Al-Bukhari, 5546]
.......

74. And We turned (the towns of Sodom in Palestine) upside down and rained down on them stones of baked clay.

75. Surely, in this are signs for those who see (or understand or learn the lessons from the Signs of Allaah).

76. And verily, they (the cities) were right on the highroad (from Makkah to Syria, i.e. the place where the Dead Sea is now)”

[al-Hijr 15:72-76]
.....

al-Tirmidhi (1456), Abu Dawood (4462)and Ibn Maajah (2561) narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.”. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

Nice one Saudi Arabia remove this filth and a shame Pakistanis are involved.

 

[The Eagle]

people requesting particularly you, to take revenge !!

There was no revenge in my post as I said, no one should break the law and if these are arrested then it means, there is a reason however, killing is condemnable.

That killing is unislamic and the responsible should be charged as well after all it is about an Islamic country that we Muslims look at, in high esteem due to our Holy Places.

I myself expecting some action so at-least the propaganda mouths be shut for good. The so-called NGOs and mafia will be shouting day & night because now they have a reason due to killing otherwise, would have remained shut. Remember what lastly happened in Peshawar that the whole world brigade went against us even issue was not that unique or different because of immature reporting and no follow-ups.

These type of news, such alleged torture and killing, is creating many hurdles for us in general that rivals will exploit every bit of it against us.

Transgenders & business, we all know what could be their business and what they mostly do .... Dance etc... That was defined as business of them by me because I did not want to use these words.

 

[BATMAN]

There was no revenge in my post

No... i meant to say people are requesting only to you for revenge.

Sir g whatever the reason was , two Pakistanis were lynched without any trial and here we are giving justifications based on their gender and other hypothetical scenarios Ena no lamea'n pao jinaa saaday bnday maray NY . Why this criminal silence on this issue ? Sarkari babu or foreign office kaha'n hain

 

[The Eagle]

Let's move forward, that was on lighter side.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Sounds like Saudi Arabia isn't safe for Pakistani's. I'm sure this isn't an isolated incident by the police targeting Pakistani's. You should be wary going there

 

[waz]

Horrible. Transgender folk should never go there. Yet they went for pilgrimage, and I feel for them.
The Pakistani government should facilitate their release, and ask for justice. How can you torture and kill these harmless folks.
The cultural gap between Muslim countries is huge and sadly these folks fell foul of it.