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Two Nation Theory

am a devoted Muslim and will die the same..but when it comes to Nationality..the nation comes first before religion,we've been brought up like that..the result we have no such negative issues and our family my uncles , my cousins are all educated and thr r top notch professionals in our family, in Govt service and we've attributed that to our society,it is very funny to read such adverse things about communal polarisans, there may be some.I've been living in a locality full of high caste hindus & christans, our kids mingle well and there no bias as such as mentioned here..little girls play and sing in the evenings and they're enjoying the freedom.I respect the high caste hindus and ask my kids to follow them in their cleanliness, and we can see lots of muslim girls, educated appreciating their hindu friends about strong hindu family values..all muslims here hate polygamy..
 
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Addressing Bar Association Karachi on 25th March 1948,
"Thirteen hundred years ago he laid the foundation of democracy… The Prophet was a great teacher. He was a great lawgiver. He was a great statesman and a great sovereign who ruled. No doubt, there are many people who do not quite appreciate when we talk of Islam. Islam is not only a set of rituals, traditions and spiritual doctrines. Islam is also a code for every Muslim, which regulates his life and his conduct in even politics and economics and the like. It is based upon highest principles of honour, integrity, fair play and justice for all. One God and the equality of man is one of the fundamental principles of Islam. In Islam there is no difference between man and man. The qualities of equality, liberty and fraternity are the fundamental principles in Islam."

Also in the same speech,
"What reason is there for anyone to fear democracy, equality, freedom on the highest standard of integrity and on the basis of fair play and justice for everybody… Let us make it (the constitution of Pakistan). We shall make it and we will show it to the world."

On 14th February 1948 in Sibi Darbar,
"It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, The Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles. Our Almighty has taught us that "Our decisions in the affairs of state shall be guided by discussions and consultations."

Also in Feb. 1948 in his broadcast to people of United States of America,
"The Constitution of Pakistan is yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know that the ultimate shape of this Constitution will be, but I am sure that it will be of the democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions, and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as the framers of the future Constitution of Pakistan."

And also in Feb. 1948 in his broadcast to the people of Australia,
"The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in right, dignity and self-respect. Consequently we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. Islam demands from us the tolerance of other creeds and we welcome in closest association with us all those who, of whatever creed, are themselves willing and ready to play their part as true and loyal citizens of Pakistan."

In a Press Conference held in New Delhi on 4th July 1947, Quaid-I-Azam answered certain questions which were put to him regarding the nature of state of Pakistan.
Q: Will Pakistan be a secular or theocratic state?
A: You are asking me a question that is absurd. I do not know what a theocratic state means...
(A correspondent suggested that a theocratic state meant a state where only people of a particular religion, for example Muslims would be full citizens and non-muslims would not be full citizens.)
A: Then it seems to me that what I have already said is like pouring water on the duck's back (laughter).
When you talk of democracy, I am afraid you have not studies Islam. We learnt democracy thirteen centuries ago.

In an interview reported in the Press on 25th January 1948 Mr. Jinnah said that,
"he could not understand a section of people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and made propaganda that the Constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat…"
He further said that "not only the muslims but also the non-muslims have nothing to fear."


Other quotes

1. No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you.

2. No struggle can ever succeed without women participating side by side with men.

3. Pakistan not only means freedom and independence but the Muslim Ideology which has to be preserved, which has come to us as a precious gift and treasure and which, we hope other will share with us.

4. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.

5. We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play.

6. If we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor... you are free- you are free to go to your temples mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state... in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.

7. You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil.

8. It is your sacred duty to look after the poor and help them. I would never have gone through the toil and suffering for the last ten years had I not felt our sacred duty towards them. We must secure for them better living conditions. It should not be our policy to make the rich richer, but that does not mean that we want to uproot things. We can quite consistently give all their due share.





Best one coming now:

Failure is a word unknown to me.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah
 
.
Addressing Bar Association Karachi on 25th March 1948,
"Thirteen hundred years ago he laid the foundation of democracy… The Prophet was a great teacher. He was a great lawgiver. He was a great statesman and a great sovereign who ruled. No doubt, there are many people who do not quite appreciate when we talk of Islam. Islam is not only a set of rituals, traditions and spiritual doctrines. Islam is also a code for every Muslim, which regulates his life and his conduct in even politics and economics and the like. It is based upon highest principles of honour, integrity, fair play and justice for all. One God and the equality of man is one of the fundamental principles of Islam. In Islam there is no difference between man and man. The qualities of equality, liberty and fraternity are the fundamental principles in Islam."

Also in the same speech,
"What reason is there for anyone to fear democracy, equality, freedom on the highest standard of integrity and on the basis of fair play and justice for everybody… Let us make it (the constitution of Pakistan). We shall make it and we will show it to the world."

On 14th February 1948 in Sibi Darbar,
"It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, The Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles. Our Almighty has taught us that "Our decisions in the affairs of state shall be guided by discussions and consultations."

Also in Feb. 1948 in his broadcast to people of United States of America,
"The Constitution of Pakistan is yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know that the ultimate shape of this Constitution will be, but I am sure that it will be of the democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions, and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as the framers of the future Constitution of Pakistan."

And also in Feb. 1948 in his broadcast to the people of Australia,
"The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in right, dignity and self-respect. Consequently we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. Islam demands from us the tolerance of other creeds and we welcome in closest association with us all those who, of whatever creed, are themselves willing and ready to play their part as true and loyal citizens of Pakistan."

In a Press Conference held in New Delhi on 4th July 1947, Quaid-I-Azam answered certain questions which were put to him regarding the nature of state of Pakistan.
Q: Will Pakistan be a secular or theocratic state?
A: You are asking me a question that is absurd. I do not know what a theocratic state means...
(A correspondent suggested that a theocratic state meant a state where only people of a particular religion, for example Muslims would be full citizens and non-muslims would not be full citizens.)
A: Then it seems to me that what I have already said is like pouring water on the duck's back (laughter).
When you talk of democracy, I am afraid you have not studies Islam. We learnt democracy thirteen centuries ago.

In an interview reported in the Press on 25th January 1948 Mr. Jinnah said that,
"he could not understand a section of people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and made propaganda that the Constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat…"
He further said that "not only the muslims but also the non-muslims have nothing to fear."


Other quotes

1. No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you.

2. No struggle can ever succeed without women participating side by side with men.

3. Pakistan not only means freedom and independence but the Muslim Ideology which has to be preserved, which has come to us as a precious gift and treasure and which, we hope other will share with us.

4. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.

5. We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play.

6. If we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor... you are free- you are free to go to your temples mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state... in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.

7. You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil.

8. It is your sacred duty to look after the poor and help them. I would never have gone through the toil and suffering for the last ten years had I not felt our sacred duty towards them. We must secure for them better living conditions. It should not be our policy to make the rich richer, but that does not mean that we want to uproot things. We can quite consistently give all their due share.





Best one coming now:

Failure is a word unknown to me.

Muhammad Ali Jinnah
Unfortunately, he would have learnt its meaning were he alive today. he failed establish a state where every religion could coexist peacefully with secular ideals, which is what he set out to do intially
 
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No religions are best..it is more important for coexistance so also nations formed on religion...
 
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Unfortunately, he would have learnt its meaning were he alive today. he failed establish a state where every religion could coexist peacefully with secular ideals, which is what he set out to do intially

ya just like how indian leaders failed to create a state where minorities could exist peacefully.
it wasnt the leaders who failed but the ignorant segment of the society which lead the country in this direction.
 
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ya just like how indian leaders failed to create a state where minorities could exist peacefully.
it wasnt the leaders who failed but the ignorant segment of the society which lead the country in this direction.

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THESE SO CALLED LEADERS ARE NOT GODS TO GIVE US ALL PARADISES !!! and our societies are poor and underdeveloped and these leaders promised us the sun..
 
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ya just like how indian leaders failed to create a state where minorities could exist peacefully.
it wasnt the leaders who failed but the ignorant segment of the society which lead the country in this direction.

there is nothing like majority or minority in india as the state does not believe in religion to function. Groups of perople may riot or break each others heads. When that happens the govt steps in. I am from a minority community.
 
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there is nothing like majority or minority in india as the state does not believe in religion to function. Groups of perople may riot or break each others heads. When that happens the govt steps in

and we will continue to work for our bread...and nation progresses..these sort of fire crakers will burst occasionally and all knows the people behind it (hindu do it for hindu votes & muslims vice versa)
 
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there is nothing like majority or minority in india as the state does not believe in religion to function. Groups of perople may riot or break each others heads. When that happens the govt steps in

not sure y they step in after 100s of ppl die.

gud goin india. u r indeed a truly secular state.

anyway let me only speak for pakistan. the only way of getting rid of this discrimination is by educating ignorant masses which doesnt use its senses when acting. secular or non secular is not the issue and will not solve the problem. the problem lies in the ignorant segment of the society.
 
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The two nation theory is nothing but an attempt by the punjabi majority to refuse the existence of other ethnicities in Pakistan.

It resulted in 1971 and the flawed two-nation theory was sunk in the bay of bengal.

I don't blame INDIRA GHANDI and INDIA for what happened back then. This what an adversary is supposed to do. It is absolutely natural.

The ones who broke the fatherland back then, now claim to be patriots. They denied East Pakistanis their rights and converted them into BANGALESE.

This whole idea of a single identity or culture for all Pakistanis is never going to be acceptable to large number of pakistanis including me.

Excuse me, but while you are completely correct in asserting that a single identity or culture for all Pakistanis at that time was not and is never going to be acceptable to a large number of Pakistanis, assigning the blame to the TNT is due to a misreading of the theory.

That is not a reasonable assessment of the TNT. Please note that while i am not a supporter of this theory, it has an inner logic and a consistency of its own, and cannot - should not be discounted out of hand. It leads us to understand exactly why the later split came about, in some ways, it even predicts the later split. Please bear with me while I explain.

About 90% of people who come to discuss the TNT come with the wholly mistaken impression that 'nation' here refers to 'nation-state'. It does not. It is an identity-specific use; it could relate to religious groups (Christians/Sikhs/Muslims/Hindus), to social divisions (caste Hindus/Scheduled Castes/Scheduled Tribes), to ethno-linguistic groups (Tamils, Punjabis, Bengalis, Maharashtrians, Gujaratis), in short, to a variety of descriptors found in the index of attributes that define identity.

At the time of partition, and for forty or fifty years prior to that (some date it to the times of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan), the TNT was put about by educated, westernised Muslims for the most part to express their growing concern at the trends within British India at the time. This 'salariat', as a brilliant Pakistani analyst has described it, were deeply concerned that Muslims were being gradually edged out of every responsible layer of society, and being left to do the most humble and unremunerative things available. They saw this process as due to the disconnect between what was recommended for their community and what was available. Educational and professional opportunities seemed to be slipping further and further away, due to their increasing alienation from Muslim society. They sought protection for the community within Indian society, to enable them to play a full role, a responsible role, and not be swamped by a brute majority and reduced to servility.

In one sentence, they sought to avert what they rightly or wrongly saw as their coming fate, the fate to which the lower castes and tribes of central and eastern India and minorities such as Sikhs and Christians, or even ethno-linguistic groups such as the Tamils. It is interesting to see Jinnah's acute sensitivity to the fate of these other minorities, and his very clear decision to stand aloof not to compromise his advocacy of the Muslim cause.

You mentioned Punjabi domination and the alienation of the Bengali. This was bound to happen because of the non-recognition of the other identifiers of identity by the leadership of Pakistan after the untimely death of Jinnah. Unfortunately, their collective attention was diverted elsewhere.

The fact is that we all have multiple identities. If at one stage my Hindu instincts are predominant, among an assemblage of Hindus, my Bengali instincts instantly come to life. The same thing applies to Muslims. Pakistan was sought as two homelands for Muslims, not as one state created for Islam. This was Jinnah's vision, and it is for Pakistanis to ponder over the events that followed. It is for them to follow the thread as different ethno-linguistic groups found themselves suddenly still under threat, even among a majority Muslim population. But in passing, the 'Maududi' line that has been suggested in another post is a complete figment of the imagination of the author. Both in Pakistan and in India, people had, and continue to have multiple identifiers of 'identity', and cannot be described in mono-cultural terms.
 
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not sure y they step in after 100s of ppl die.

gud goin india. u r indeed a truly secular state.

anyway let me only speak for pakistan. the only way of getting rid of this discrimination is by educating ignorant masses which doesnt use its senses when acting. secular or non secular is not the issue and will not solve the problem. the problem lies in the ignorant segment of the society.
The state process are not good enough. Remember 26/11 when Pakistani terrorists hit Mumbai, the police initially had only lathis and rifles, against ak47 and grenades. now they have become 1 step better. instead of people the force themselves get slaughtered by maoist terrorists.
we are indeed secular, our people get killed by hindus, mulims and commies. We have no distinction to get slaughtered. :)
 
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PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THESE SO CALLED LEADERS ARE NOT GODS TO GIVE US ALL PARADISES !!! and our societies are poor and underdeveloped and these leaders promised us the sun..

i dont know about indian leaders. but Jinnah indeed gave us a vision which we forgot. our own failures brought us to this stage and not Jinnah's vision.
 
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The state process are not good enough. Remember 26/11 when Pakistani terrorists hit Mumbai, the police initially had only lathis and rifles, against ak47 and grenades. now they have become 1 step better. instead of people the force themselves get slaughtered by maoist terrorists.
we are indeed secular, our people get killed by hindus, mulims and commies. We have no distinction to get slaughtered. :)

yes. gud going india. may you always stay lik this.
 
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yes. gud going india. may you always stay lik this.
yes, i hope so too india will stay like this , as a beacon of democracy and freedom on an island surrounded by ferocious states with dictators and bigots. India should continue to shine a light and path for all those who believe in values such as peace , freedom stability and continue setting the example that it has been over the last few decades. Hopefully all of india's neighbors will soon realise this and become like india.
 
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