Two girls shot dead in Kashmir

[KS]

How about this, the Kashmiris want freedom and will side with the freedom fighters.

Freedom fighters will not kill one of their own and that too women.

And see where the kashmiris are after siding with the 'freedom fighters'.... are they any better than they were in the 80's ?? NO.

Infact they are a lot worser. So let them decide their fate ( not secession as land is India's which is non-negotiable at any cost)

Umm... you need to go over the link Spark posted!

I have gone over it.

It supports very little of the assertions being made since the thread started.

Isnt it obvious that the father will not know the exact names,height and weight of the militants, but cann easily distinguish between a sec force and a militant.

Why turn my logic upside down -- I am telling you what happens on the ground. You think what the taliban were doing was not under-reported, because the journalists feared for their lives?

Journalists are pretty different from the common folk who lives there and toils there for his daily food. And not many Kashmiris have forgotten what happened to various pro-Independent separatist leaders who refused to toe the pro-Pakistan line.

If that was the case of influential leaders, what saves the common man ?

But he has said that he doesn't know who killed them. A female member has said that they were veiled, and did not give their names.

It's the police which is contantly alleging that three miliants, including one Pakustani, are involved.

It is common among the sub-continent in case of police enquiries. How many eye witnesses tell openly I can identify the murderer in fear of retribution. But I am sure the father will share whatever he knows with the RR in private which will help them.

And The pakistani connection comes in because of the language involved - two spoke Kashmiri while one in Urdu.

I have gone over all these posts and I want to ask a question: what's upsetting you Indians more, (a) the fact that two girls lost their lives, or (b) the Kashmiris have not come out to condmen them as they did at Shopian.

For me, most of your posts smell of the latter. And that's very, very, very sad. You need to stop politicising this.

I say both as I would be lying if I did not think of the second option and even the second grouse is a very valid one.

Is these two girls lives not worth the same as the two Shopian girls ?? Or is that the Indian state is a soft target whereas the militants are not ?

 

[KS]

Hi Karthic, I made a small error, and posted inside your post, I was quoting it... i don't know how that happend

I have deleted all my parts, and let you post be... but please edit and put back anything that's missing.

Really sorry.

No issues

But I am going to suspend you for 1 day for this...

 

[A1Kaid]

Whoever is behind the killing is scum and worthy of termination.

What is important is that there be justice for the victims. Which is doubtful because those who promise to "investigate" and serve justice are the ones actually carrying out the crimes in Kashmir. In a larger sense, it is the Pakistan Army's moral, legal, rightful responsibility to liberate the remaining parts of Kashmir, so one can indirectly blame the PA for insecurity caused by all rogue elements in Kashmir including Hindustani Army and the crimes that dishonorably Army perpetrates daily. That's looking at it from the failure to achieve your objective perspective. Of course, those who are actually behind it are the guilty ones.

 

[arihant]

I think its better to close the thread. Not because, its not worthy because we lack trust.

From my view, those who are guilty should be prosecuted by J&K Police and this should be upheld by each and every member of PDF.

 

[EjazR]

Why is there so much surprise and denial that militants could have killed civilians.

This is not the first time this has happened. And the sad part is that more civilians 95% Kashmiri muslims have been killed by militants than others.

Most of the civilians are pro-govt. NC party workers, informers, relatives of policemen or army men or even girls who just didn't wear a headscarf or didn't want to get "married" to a militant.

Other than Kashmiris, innocent tourists have also been killed and slaughtered.

To call such people mujahids is an insult to the term "mujahid". There are nothing but takfeeris and deviant militant groups

 

[duhastmish]

first its a good step by - website owners to open this thread.

it wasnt a big issue- although it certainly didn't effect the good work you guys are doing. but the reasoning for not opening the thread or letting people have discourse was not right.

not to forget elmo - she is doing super goo job , and had her first sour taste of being a mod.

--------------------------

People here don't understand one thing - kashmir is not delhi or sydney or newyork. its a complex place with so many different thesis and anti thesis existing in same framework.

Don't blame it on people - they are one who have to suffer in all the scenarios.
where did indian media go when last year so many kids died in kashmir because of stubbornness of security forces. and its funny how paksitani & separatist are separating from this news.

if its an act by let it should be condemned - and kashmiri people dont give a hoot about let or paksitani or indian or separatist.

they just want peace - dont blame it on people - that they are being two faced. in the end when crpf shoot , paksitan side terrorist shoot , indian side terrorist shoot , or sepratist play their mind games. in the end its kashmiri who hav to suffer.

and there is no true friend of these people - people's voice need to be heard.

remember how bjp flag hoisting excersice was seen with so much - patritic glas that people fogot the emotions of humans.

--------------kashmir needs peace and first step is kick them violent people out - be it crpf or let.

god bless the soul of these two girls.

 

[KS]

kashmir needs peace and first step is kick them violent people out - be it crpf or let.

Two things -

• I dont agree CRPF being compared with LeT.
  
• Even if the CRPF are sent to their camps, peace will not come. It is not in some countries interest for peace to come.

 

[duhastmish]

How about this, the Kashmiris want freedom and will side with the freedom fighters.

Kashmir gives two hoot about your freedom issue. they just want to live and have a life they deserve - without indian crpf or pakistani & let militant sooting bullets. and ugly politics by state & sepratists.
in reality - we all know kashmir solution wont do any favor to any-body except kashmiris.

Why turn my logic upside down -- I am telling you what happens on the ground. You think what the taliban were doing was not under-reported, because the journalists feared for their lives?

journo feel terrorisd by those terrorists too , and on the same hand they cant go against the state.

whole media is a propaganda - with too much pressure from all the sides.

-xx--x-x-x-x

I have gone over all these posts and I want to ask a question: what's upsetting you Indians more, (a) the fact that two girls lost their lives, or (b) the Kashmiris have not come out to condmen them as they did at Shopian.

For me, most of your posts smell of the latter. And that's very, very, very sad. You need to stop politicising this.

upsetting part was that - people are blind folded by - the politics,

kashmir is run by the indian govt. but kashmiri are run by sepratist and violent leadership.
two girls lost their life - and its not blamed because - it wont give a political leverage to those mullah and separatist leaders.
and paksitani as well as Kashmir youth have to realize - yeh CRPF is evil and indian state is not doing enough for them. but these two faced monster with grey beard and carrying gun are worst.

 

[duhastmish]

Two things -

• I dont agree CRPF being compared with LeT.
  
• Even if the CRPF are sent to their camps, peace will not come. It is not in some countries interest for peace to come.

HAVE YOU BEEN TO kashmir ????? crpf is worst off - monkeys with weapon.
first step for peace have to be - give power to kashmiri police. that will win some heart.

peace ????? do u think crpf is there to create peace for you and kashmir ?
all the good work done by - indian state and army is run over by a few idiots.

the only way for india to have kashmir is - give kashmiri some -development , education , and dont shoot them.

give a free and open media coverage to let india see what is happening there.

 

[Contract Killer]

Senior analyst B Raman questions and deeply condemns the near-to-total silence of Valley separatists over the barbaric murder of three Kashmiri girls by suspected LeT militants.

In our excitement over the revolution from nowhere sweeping across the Arab world and in our preoccupation with trying to understand what has been happening in Egypt [ Images ], we should not fail to highlight and protest against the utter barbarity of the cold-blooded murders of two young Kashmiri Muslim girls at Sopore in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] by three suspects believed to be from the Lashkar-e-Tayiba [ Images ] on February 1-- two of them suspected to be locals and the third suspected to be a Pakistani.

Such jihadi barbarity has been known in the past and continues in the present. Public opinion ought to be shocked and outraged not only by the act of barbarity that put an end to the lives of two innocent and young Muslim girls, but also by the deafening silence of large sections of the population of the Valley in general and by many -- if not most -- of the separatist leaders in particular.

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah [ Images ] and Sajjad Lone, the dissident leader, need to be complimented for strongly coming out against this barbarity.

The almost total silence of many others in the face of the courageous articulation by leaders like them of their outrage should not be a matter of surprise either. It had happened in the past and it continues to happen in the present.

These silent people never hesitate to condemn and protest every time there are allegations of excesses by the security forces. They never hesitate to come out in their hundreds and thousands and demonstrate in the streets against the security forces.

But they seem to have lost their voice, conscience and courage when innocent civilians were deliberately and barbarically killed by the jihadi terrorists.

Their silence not only speaks of their physical and mental cowardice. Worse still, it also speaks of their willingness to tolerate and white-wash jihadi barbarity. 'Jihadi barbarity is understandable,' that seems to be their view.

Silence in the face of barbarity amounts to complicity in the commission of barbarity. Not only is the cold-blooded murder of these two girls barbaric, the cold-blooded silence of these people is equally barbaric. Those who murdered these girls are guilty of barbarity in action. Those who remain silent are guilty of barbarity in mind.

One has not yet seen any strong reaction from roof-top liberals such as Arundhati Roy [ Images ] and her ilk to the barbarity perpetrated at Sopore. One should not be surprised if they come out with double-edged words to rationalise the act of barbarity while seeming to deplore it.

Our electronic media has done well in highlighting the barbarity and the accompanying criminal silence. They should keep it up. It should not be just a proforma outrage. It should be a real outrage.

The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt of India [ Images ], New Delhi [ Images ], and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai.

 

[Christian]

The fact that the so called "separatists" are so reluctant to condemn these killings only goes on prove that they are on pakistani payroll. I would say this to the "separatists".....Careful what you wish for...'cause you just might get it

 

[Manas]

Militants, not forces, killed separatists: Hurriyat leader


Srinagar: It's probably a first in Kashmir's separatist movement's history. Senior separatist leader and former chairman of the Hurriyat Conference Abdul Ghani Bhat has admitted that militants, and not security agencies, are responsible for the killing of some of top separatist leaders including Mirwaiz Moulvi Farooq and Abdul Gani Lone.

Speaking to NDTV, Bhat said, "Killing is horrible. No human individual even with a modicum of ethics in him can justify the killing of anybody, particularly the innocent when they fall to bullets. The human conscience must shiver and as far as I am concerned I know that people like Abdul Hadwani, like Maulana Mahmood Farooq, like Abdul Gani Lone fell to the bullets of our own people."

It's a significant shift of stance for Hurriyat that has been accusing security forces all along for their leaders' deaths. Lone was killed for his peace efforts in 2002 and Mirwaiz Farooq in 1991.

Justifying his stand, Bhat said, "The security forces on the soil of Kashmir are not angels. They are also involved in the killing of people. But my problem are my own people who kill my own people and this is what is aching each thinking Kashmiri. Whether or not he speaks out is a different story."

Bhat also said that he may suffer and even be killed for speaking the truth but won't cow down in fear.

"My own brother was also killed by my own boys and this is a stark reality. When I recognise the stark reality, I am afraid I may also suffer. But let me suffer. Let me not seal my mouth and pull out my ears. Whether you speak out the truth or not but I am determined to do it. I have done it and I stand by it", Bhat said

 

[Christian]

Militants, not forces, killed separatists: Hurriyat leader


Srinagar: It's probably a first in Kashmir's separatist movement's history. Senior separatist leader and former chairman of the Hurriyat Conference Abdul Ghani Bhat has admitted that militants, and not security agencies, are responsible for the killing of some of top separatist leaders including Mirwaiz Moulvi Farooq and Abdul Gani Lone.

Speaking to NDTV, Bhat said, "Killing is horrible. No human individual even with a modicum of ethics in him can justify the killing of anybody, particularly the innocent when they fall to bullets. The human conscience must shiver and as far as I am concerned I know that people like Abdul Hadwani, like Maulana Mahmood Farooq, like Abdul Gani Lone fell to the bullets of our own people."

It's a significant shift of stance for Hurriyat that has been accusing security forces all along for their leaders' deaths. Lone was killed for his peace efforts in 2002 and Mirwaiz Farooq in 1991.

Justifying his stand, Bhat said, "The security forces on the soil of Kashmir are not angels. They are also involved in the killing of people. But my problem are my own people who kill my own people and this is what is aching each thinking Kashmiri. Whether or not he speaks out is a different story."

Bhat also said that he may suffer and even be killed for speaking the truth but won't cow down in fear.

"My own brother was also killed by my own boys and this is a stark reality. When I recognise the stark reality, I am afraid I may also suffer. But let me suffer. Let me not seal my mouth and pull out my ears. Whether you speak out the truth or not but I am determined to do it. I have done it and I stand by it", Bhat said

FINALLY! some one has the balls to speak out. THANK YOU BHAT for admitting the obvious !.

 

[duhastmish]

these murder should not be spared. and people should listen to indian voices and media.

but at the same time - Indian should also listen to cries of Kashmirs next time other incident happens. kashmiri people need indian people more than anybody - because only indian people can raise voice against govt and may be have chance to coexist and peace in future.

-----ugly political war is burning kashmir- ----

 

[KS]

HAVE YOU BEEN TO kashmir ????

No I have not been there, but my friends bro is posted in CIF-K RR and so I am a bit versed with the incidents happening there.

crpf is worst off - monkeys with weapon.

Have some respect for the man who is laying his life on the line for his country.

first step for peace have to be - give power to kashmiri police. that will win some heart.

Win some heart ?? Sorry for being pessimistic but this problem is not a political problem alone - it has long ago become a religious problem and I dont think we can will all their hearts unless we become 80% Muslim.

By all means give power to the Kashmir police --- but are they equipped for that ?

peace ????? do u think crpf is there to create peace for you and kashmir ?
all the good work done by - indian state and army is run over by a few idiots.

Whatever be the intention they are not there on a picnic with unlimited bullets to kill as many Kashmiris as they want. They are exercising the maximum restraint even in face of provocation.

the only way for india to have kashmir is - give kashmiri some -development , education , and dont shoot them.

What more development the pampered Kashmiris want ?? Every year they get central assistance running into thousands of crores without doing any work and majority of this goes to the Valley and only a fraction reaches even Jammu.

If they want let them work hard and earn like any average Indian. No more free passes.

And with every accidental killing by the Sec forces huge rallies start, stone pelting starts and schools get closed for months together with the separatist leadership urging everyone to stay off schools.

And then how exactly is education supposed to reach them if schools remain closed for half of the year ??

Coming to the last part that Kashmiris should not be shot, do you know how ridiculous it sounds ?? No one is there on a joy trip shooting them. Only in face of extreme provocation and self-defence are bullets used.

Even in this summer many deaths were due to tear gas shells and rubber bullets - not live bullets.

So basically the Kashmiri arsonists will pelt stones,destroy the public investment and property, burn Govt vehicles and try to beat the policemen (CRPF,J&K Police) but they should not retaliate even in self-defence.

How about asking the Kashmiris not to indulge in stone pelting, so that there would be no shooting in the first place ?

give a free and open media coverage to let india see what is happening there.

Is there a propaganda going on right now ??