Two ex PLAN navy frigate joining in 2018 to Bangladesh Navy.

[Michael Corleone]

Could you enlighten us with why you think his logic is flawed...?



Exactly. We cannot grow economically and _not_ have the concurrent growth in our defense capability. Remember I said defense not offense.

Countries like Pakistan with similar total GDP spend far more in defense and have Ballistic missile and nuclear capabilities.

And talking about where Indian Navy is going look at the following,

http://www.firstpost.com/india/indi...ou-need-to-know-about-these-uavs-3737151.html


At some point in time almost all submarines will have safe nuclear propulsion. We have to keep our minds open to these possibilities.

Large economy doesn't necessarily call for a large economy when there aren't any threat from neighboring regions....
Ex. Germany which had been downsizing it military a lot and only recently planned to expand citing Russia....

We do have threats and so a need for large military doesn't necessarily come from a large economy but....

 

[UKBengali]

Large economy doesn't necessarily call for a large economy when there aren't any threat from neighboring regions....
Ex. Germany which had been downsizing it military a lot and only recently planned to expand citing Russia....

We do have threats and so a need for large military doesn't necessarily come from a large economy but....

Germany is in Nato and has the US's conventional and nuclear forces to back it up.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Germany is in Nato and has the US's conventional and nuclear forces to back it up.

NATO, EU is bound to break up... Germany realizes that and now starred expanding their military...

 

[UKBengali]

NATO, EU is bound to break up... Germany realizes that and now starred expanding their military...

That proves my point.

BD does have a large potential threat and that is India and so needs to plan accordingly.

Nation's plan based on worse-case scenarios and BD must have the ability to deter any Indian attempt to harm it's interests.

 

[Michael Corleone]

That proves my point.

BD does have a large potential threat and that is India and so needs to plan accordingly.

Nation's plan based on worse-case scenarios and BD must have the ability to deter any Indian attempt to harm it's interests.

I thought your pointed out a direct need for larger army for larger economy than a threat which I tried to point out in #106

 

[UKBengali]

I thought your pointed out a direct need for larger army for larger economy than a threat which I tried to point out in #106

Ok. I got confused with the point you were
trying to make.

Be under no illusion that India wants a
subservient BD and only a strong military
can guarantee BD full sovereignty.

 

[Bilal9]

Ok. I got confused with the point you were
trying to make.

Be under no illusion that India wants a
subservient BD and only a strong military
can guarantee BD full sovereignty.

I'd agree in this case with @UKBengali - a subservient Bangladesh is in our large neighbor's best interest. But is it in our best interest?

When hundreds of thousands of our martyrs laid down their lives, was it to pander to another culture or grow someone else's economy so we could get poorer and they could lord over us?

Was it to establish ourselves as slaves and bootlickers?

Where is our pride and sense of self-determination?

Think.....

 

[Bilal9]

LOL. Let's start with some New build AIP subs first.

Well OK let's start with that then.

You think it's impossible?

When did Pakistan start building Subs and what were the complicated naval craft built there to precede those?

Indonesia did not know how to assemble a motorcycle before BJ Habibie built not just planes but airliners in the IPTN factory in Bandung. Since then IPTN has gone down the tubes somewhat and was an expensive lesson for Indonesia because of mismanagement, but hey - it was a great start.

Given money, political will and proper ToT partner, building subs are well within possibility, especially given our long nautical build tradition.

 

[Avicenna]

Not saying that Bangladesh can't. You and I both know bengalis are pretty smart. But it's not really practical. What military threat exists that justifies allocation of limited resources for such an endeavor? Secondly, designing and developing subs are different from assembling subs.

It's a blessing buddy that Bangladesh has the luxury of neglecting its armed forces because of imminent threat or rivalry. And please don't say India. If they wanted too, militarily they would be in Dhaka in 24 hours.

 

[Nilgiri]

Indonesia did not know how to assemble a motorcycle before BJ Habibie built planes in the IPTN factory in Bandung.

That true @madokafc ? Things were that hopeless economically under Suharto?

And please don't say India. If they wanted too, militarily they would be in Dhaka in 24 hours.

Ouch. Brazen honesty wont get you far in this subforum buddy. Appreciate the effort though.

 

[Species]

I support your thought that Bangladesh needs to look beyond BoB... but the way you're looking at it, brings up questions that are difficult to answer.... like why do you think that only after 2030 Bangladesh would develop this kind of needs.... and why do you think that only going the way Indians went can we challenge India.... do you think India would be sitting idle until 2030?...... the point is, the basic thoughts about our defence needs to be addressed.... otherwise all these billions of dollars of investment would be like showcase items....

No, I did't say only after 2030 Bangladesh would develop this kind of needs neither we should go the Indian way nor even India would be sitting idle until 2030.

I'm not sure if we already have started to look beyond BoB, perhaps some minor initiatives, but I guess substantial progress must be seen after 2030.

What I'd like to see is similar to what we discussed in the sticky thread for BN few months back. i.e. the training commands. To be specific, I guess we can establish some training commands in the Eastern coast of Africa while for the eastern IOR, we can form a strong tripartite military alliance with Malaysia and Indonesia. That would ensure our presence in almost entire Indian ocean, protecting the crucial sea lanes. But that will require some major diplomatic initiatives.

Why did I say Malaysia and Indonesia? Being Muslim countries, it would be easier to elevate the ties with these countries than others in the ASEAN region. Both of them have been displaying a bit of pro-China foreign policy in recent years. Response of both Malaysia and Indonesia in the recent Rohingya crisis was praiseworthy which indicates we are more or less aligned in the global stage.

I believe some progress has been done, we already have a presence in Africa in the form of UNPKO while our defence ties with Indonesia has been expanding in recent years.

 

[Bilal9]

Not saying that Bangladesh can't. You and I both know bengalis are pretty smart. But it's not really practical. What military threat exists that justifies allocation of limited resources for such an endeavor? Secondly, designing and developing subs are different from assembling subs.

It's a blessing buddy that Bangladesh has the luxury of neglecting its armed forces because of imminent threat or rivalry. And please don't say India. If they wanted too, militarily they would be in Dhaka in 24 hours.

What I am saying is that we need to encourage ToT for every defense purchase from now on because, like in India as well as Pakistan, ToT provides growth incubator environment for self sufficient technological base. It may cost slightly more for getting ToT, but a nation of 170 million cannot look at others and be shamefully dependent on them for assembling items like airplanes, tanks and frigates as well as Subs at some point.

Assembly is the first step, increasing local content will come gradually as a component of cost reduction.

Should we sit like sitting ducks and do nothing defencewise, while India gets stronger by the year? Just because they can march on over, should we let them do it and present no deterrent?

Questioning expenditures on defence on a defence forum sounds a bit strange to me.

I'd say give India second thoughts at least before they attempt to walk all over us like a doormat. That deterrent is necessary at a minimum.

No offense - but if you talk like this about how glorious the Indian Army is then people will suspect you aren't really Bangladeshi, rather a false flagger or a fifth columnist. If you love your country then you should champion your country's best interests. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Avicenna]

So again. I am American. Of Bangladeshi origin. And really I couldn't care less what people think regarding false flagging and the like. My posts in this forum are based on my interest and desire for the well being of muslims in general as well as Bangladesh of course.

Its not odd to be on a defense forum and question defense expenditures. And it is precisely that I care about Bangladesh that I take these positions. Some of these posts on this sub forum are delusional to put it kindly. If you reference my previous posts regarding defense matters as it relates to the BAF (as I have some knowledge of military aviation, unlike land or sea), I attempt to advocate an intelligent and rational approach to bolster BAF capabilities.

Bangladesh has made strides in the recent past, yes, but it still has a LONG way to go. I would want human development and economic development to take precedence over any significant military expenditures which involve ToT. What does Bangladesh need with an indiginous defense industry when its main exports are derived from low skilled workers. Come on man. Nuclear submarines, being a credible threat to India by 2030, TOT with defense purchases.... the list goes on and on.

I HATE how Bangladesh is talked about derisively by both Indians and Pakistanis. However, I ask the bengalis in this sub forum to reject fan boi-ism and look at thing more rationally.

LOL I'm gonna get much hate for this post.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

So again. I am American. My posts in this forum are based on my interest and desire for the well being of muslims in general as well as Bangladesh of course.

well, I can't imagine how you would see into the well-being of Muslims in general when you closely guard a nation in your heart that deceives its own people in broad daylight....

I have disagreed with your perspective not just because those go against the interests of Bangladesh, but also promote the national interests of a deceiving state....

our geopolitical objectives simply does not go with these thoughts.... we are not a deceiving state.... therefore, its out of the question to even consider into account stuff that go against the interest of Bangladesh as well as Muslims in general....

 

[Avicenna]

well, I can't imagine how you would see into the well-being of Muslims in general when you closely guard a nation in your heart that deceives its own people in broad daylight....

I have disagreed with your perspective not just because those go against the interests of Bangladesh, but also promote the national interests of a deceiving state....

our geopolitical objectives simply does not go with these thoughts.... we are not a deceiving state.... therefore, its out of the question to even consider into account stuff that go against the interest of Bangladesh as well as Muslims in general....

Please tell me. How exactly does promoting human development and economic development over military expenditure help India and hurt Bangladesh? Simply put Bangladesh is a young nation. It has massive potential. It is SO underdeveloped. And the inherent capabilities of Bangladeshis are tremendous if properly cultivated. This means EDUCATION! education, healthcare, infrastructure development should take precedence over military procurement in my opinion. That being said, I think some baseline capability should always be present with BAF armed forces of course. Again in terms of the BAF, I would advocate for that reported purchase of that Chinese package. I think that is completely reasonable given the cost as well as the capabilities being acquired and is precisely the type of action i hope for. Purchasing the two old Mings were brilliant i thought. It takes YEARS to build up a culture for operating submarines. InshAllah after BN is more familiar with the basics, and the economy have improved even more, perhaps 2 new builds or even more will be bought. Overall, although I dont like Hasina's friendliness towards India, or constant villification of Pakistan or living in the past, I think her government has done a great job in regards to Bangladeshi military procurement.

All I'm saying is this. Bangladesh has bigger fish to fry then worry about developing an indigenous military production capability. It is several years, if not a generation or two away from that even being a concern in the face of other more immediate concerns.