TURNING POINT IN THE HISTORY OF INDIAN SUBCONTINENT

[neokautilya2]

True mate , Glorification of Alexander was more to do with West domination of East. British borrowed the concepts of democracy and other concepts from Ancient Greece and Roman empire, will always undermine India and its culture and its scientific achievements.


West sees Greece as mother of Western culture and they borrowed every thing from it.
If we have to go into History Persian Empire, Indian Empires and Chinese Empires are on par with Greek empire and this glorification has to do with undermining the eastern civilization and dominating the East.

even this ARYAN INVASION THEORY is an attempt to undermine the east

for the west it is an attempt to link the unique indian history to europe

and this theory serves the purpose of islam by justifying violence , they did on every soil they set dere foot on

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have no problem if you do not accept the logical conclusion. You can move on.

There is no logic because there is not a single undistorted fact. There is no single undistorted fact because there is not a single authority cited. Instead we have a dreary sequence of Hindutva sources - K. R. Malkani, BJP party hack, Dinesh Agrawal, already known as a revisionist historian who never took a single class of history in his academic life, and that sort. Amazing.

 

[neokautilya2]

True mate , Glorification of Alexander was more to do with West domination of East. British borrowed the concepts of democracy and other concepts from Ancient Greece and Roman empire, will always undermine India and its culture and its scientific achievements.


West sees Greece as mother of Western culture and they borrowed every thing from it.
If we have to go into History Persian Empire, Indian Empires and Chinese Empires are on par with Greek empire and this glorification has to do with undermining the eastern civilization and dominating the East.

double post ...........

 

[Developereo]

tell me ur viewpoint, which i asked

My personal views are not relevant to the discussion.

it would then have essentially (as per said theory)been indigenous people fighting other indigenous people thereby proving very little of the case for invasion.

There is still the issue of cultural invasion, which is the crux of the debate.

Secondly, why would a people who accommodated the locals into their belief have such severe problems with other locals ?

To perpetuate their cultural conquest.

and some of the Vedic authors do talk about their distant ancestors, who lived in places as far East as Kashi (Benaras), on the border between UP and Bihar.

From what I understand, the reference is to indigenous tribes who converted to Vedic culture; they were not ancestors of the Vedas' authors.

The Rg veda knows of Afghanistan but not Iran and it most certainly was not kinship since they were all jostling for power.

Familiarity or, at least, knowledge of, then.

 

[Hellraiser007]

even this ARYAN INVASION THEORY is an attempt to undermine the east

for the west it is an attempt to link the unique indian history to europe

and this theory serves the purpose of islam by justifying violence , they did on every soil they set dere foot on

Another observation is
Fact is Germany has nothing to do with Indian tribes, Germans associated with Aryans because at the time of World wars India is the source of Income and source of soldiers for British.
They wanted India to weaken British. Only commonality they found is "Aryan Invasion theory Myth".

 

[Joe Shearer]

even this ARYAN INVASION THEORY is an attempt to undermine the east

for the west it is an attempt to link the unique indian history to europe

and this theory serves the purpose of islam by justifying violence , they did on every soil they set dere foot on

And the truth emerges. Anything western pollutes pristine Indian wisdom. Anything Islamic pollutes pristine Hindu wisdom. Only that which is outside both spheres of influence is worth consideration.

Unfortunately for these geniuses, India has never, in older times, before the mediaeval ages, produced ONE historian. The closest we have is Kalhaan, of Rajatarangini fame. That's it. No others (there are, but so obscure as to amount to none; certainly noot worth studying for a general overview). So they are left with the sad task of getting mathematicians, experts on Oriental Medicine, bankers, archaeologists, anybody but an historian, to propound theory and distort fact.

And then jbond97 wants me to stop abusing them. How much can flesh and blood take?

 

[Developereo]

I have a busy spree coming up so will not be contributing much. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this fascinating and very informative thread.

Special thanks, as always, to Joe Shearer. It's hard to find any other poster on this forum who has your depth of knowledge, patience, eloquence and, above all, commitment to fairness and impartiality.

 

[neokautilya2]

Another observation is
Fact is Germany has nothing to do with Indian tribes, Germans associated with Aryans because at the time of World wars India is the source of Income and source of soldiers for British.
They wanted India to weaken British. Only commonality they found is "Aryan Invasion theory Myth".

can accept that view,

another thing is if u closely look then u will find that more of the world conquests and missions are started by building up a propaganda

since most of the countries hitler wanted to attack they were christian

so how do u think that he cud have given motivation, extreme sense of hate against oders..... so he propagated this aryan theory ( it is amusing that till then the swastika was being used only by hindus in india)

throughout history world conquests have been done in the same fashion...... if you are smart then you can imagine that from whom the hitler wud have been inspired?????

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have a busy spree coming up so will not be contributing much. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this fascinating and very informative thread.

Special thanks, as always, to Joe Shearer. It's hard to find any other poster on this forum who has your depth of knowledge, patience, eloquence and, above all, commitment to fairness and impartiality.

As a matter of fact, this is the last time I post here. I refuse to have scrubby school boys questioning my facts and my integrity. for the future, look for me in a restricted setting, where nincompoops are not allowed in.

 

[Hellraiser007]

And the truth emerges. Anything western pollutes pristine Indian wisdom. Anything Islamic pollutes pristine Hindu wisdom. Only that which is outside both spheres of influence is worth consideration.

Unfortunately for these geniuses, India has never, in older times, before the mediaeval ages, produced ONE historian. The closest we have is Kalhaan, of Rajatarangini fame. That's it. No others (there are, but so obscure as to amount to none; certainly noot worth studying for a general overview). So they are left with the sad task of getting mathematicians, experts on Oriental Medicine, bankers, archaeologists, anybody but an historian, to propound theory and distort fact.

And then jbond97 wants me to stop abusing them. How much can flesh and blood take?

Why are you going after Indian Wisdom ??

What is wrong in glorifying once own country's achievements and specifically if they are facts?

 

[neokautilya2]

And the truth emerges. Anything western pollutes pristine Indian wisdom. Anything Islamic pollutes pristine Hindu wisdom. Only that which is outside both spheres of influence is worth consideration.

Unfortunately for these geniuses, India has never, in older times, before the mediaeval ages, produced ONE historian. The closest we have is Kalhaan, of Rajatarangini fame. That's it. No others (there are, but so obscure as to amount to none; certainly noot worth studying for a general overview). So they are left with the sad task of getting mathematicians, experts on Oriental Medicine, bankers, archaeologists, anybody but an historian, to propound theory and distort fact.

And then jbond97 wants me to stop abusing them. How much can flesh and blood take?

sir u are more experienced dan most of us here

but what is the point in further dividing india into aryan or non-aryan

when are country has lost so much through this caste system

 

[Hellraiser007]

can accept that view,

another thing is if u closely look then u will find that more of the world conquests and missions are started by building up a propaganda

since most of the countries hitler wanted to attack they were christian

so how do u think that he cud have given motivation, extreme sense of hate against oders..... so he propagated this aryan theory ( it is amusing that till then the swastika was being used only by hindus in india)

throughout history world conquests have been done in the same fashion...... if you are smart then you can imagine that from whom the hitler wud have been inspired?????

Yes Western countries specifically Britain who were once enslaved by Romans has this cunning way of undermining other countries cultures and know how to divide Indian society by using "Divide and conquer" principle.

I have a busy spree coming up so will not be contributing much. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this fascinating and very informative thread.

Special thanks, as always, to Joe Shearer. It's hard to find any other poster on this forum who has your depth of knowledge, patience, eloquence and, above all, commitment to fairness and impartiality.

This has to do with your Perception.

 

[Hellraiser007]

sir u are more experienced dan most of us here

but what is the point in further dividing india into aryan or non-aryan

when are country has lost so much through this caste system

Mate Nobody until now had defined Aryan term correctly ,leave about Aryan Invasion .

 

[jbond197]

The authors of the Vedas explicitly told us that they felt kinship with tribes in Iran/Afghanistan. They did not claim kinship with the Nepalese or the Biharis or the Assamese or the Bengalis or the Keralites.

This is not a Pakistani ISI conspiracy to go back in time and rewrite the Vedas. This is what is written.

Point to the references. Also there were supposedly more than 182 saints who wrote various Rig Vedic hymns. Kindly point to the ones who felt kinship with tribes in Iran. Afghanistan (Gandhar) was always considered part of cultural India. In case of Iran we can see influences of Sanskrit on Avesta for sure but I have never figured that they ever followed anything Rig Vedic they had there own stuff in form of Gathas and all. But anyways what all that you have stated above actually proves? You did not tell anything about the so called area where Vedas originated and came to India. If you consider Iran as origin then question arises - why did they created Gathas for themselves and Vedas for others? Gathas and Vedas were completely opposite to each other in many ways. They were always in conflict with each others and even the sages of the two were different so what does this tell you? To me, they may have similarities but each went their own ways and came up with their own books of knowledge which laid basis for two completely different religions.

I know you said you will be busy but don't run away and do tell us your share of understanding because of which you said what you said.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Point to the references. Also there are supposedly more than 182 saints who wrote various Rig Vedic hymns. Kindly point to the ones who felt kinship with tribes in Iran. Afghanistan (Gandhar) was always considered part of cultural India. In case of Iran we can see influences of Sanskrit on Avesta for sure but I have never figured that they ever followed anything Rig Vedic they had there own stuff in form of Gathas and all. But anyways what all that you have stated above actually proves? You did not tell anything about the so called area where Vedas originated.

Tbh, as such it sounds more like another Pakistani conspiracy theory..

These guys always undermine Indian culture and label it as inferior ,n when some thing good emerges they will say it is not indigenous nothing unusual .