TURNING POINT IN THE HISTORY OF INDIAN SUBCONTINENT

[Joe Shearer]

Why are you going after Indian Wisdom ??

What is wrong in glorifying once own country's achievements and specifically if they are facts?

Because there is neither Wisdom, nor achievement, nor fact in your posts.

 

[Joe Shearer]

sir u are more experienced dan most of us here

but what is the point in further dividing india into aryan or non-aryan

when are country has lost so much through this caste system

first of all, you should educate yourself about the term Aryan. It was a word used in early times which meant noble. It was not a race. The only technical sense that it bears is the sense of language, as in Indo-Aryan language. All other uses or shades of meaning have been discredited over the years.

Second, you need to explain what you mean about further dividing India into Aryan and non-Aryan. Who is doing this? Can you point to where in my posts I have used this term to divide India, unless you are referring to the self-evident truth that some parts of India speak languages descended from Indo-Aryan, and some parts from Dravidian, and a third set from Tibeto-Burmese?

Finally, what connection does Aryan have with the caste system?

 

[Hellraiser007]

Because there is neither Wisdom, nor achievement, nor fact in your posts.

What do my posts has to with Indian Wisdom ??

 

[Bang Galore]

What do my posts has to with Indian Wisdom ??

Nothing whatsoever......

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Hellraiser do read some high level history books,i am a masters history student and every source says ghori was carried off,and this blinding prithviraj and him killing ghori with arrow is also propaganda.There is no need for apologistic revisionism that every loss we suffered was due to some treachery or low blow or our own maganimity.This is equal to what our adversaries do with their history .Accept,learn,move on.
On the alexander issue one does agree that his indian invasion on a whole was a big failure despite tactical successes.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Hellraiser do read some high level history books,i am a masters history student and every source says ghori was carried off,and this blinding prithviraj and him killing ghori with arrow is also propaganda.There is no need for apologistic revisionism that every loss we suffered was due to some treachery or low blow or our own maganimity.This is equal to what our adversaries do with their history .Accept,learn,move on.
On the alexander issue one does agree that his indian invasion on a whole was a big failure despite tactical successes.

Very true mate, Thanks

 

[Dushmann]

this thread still going on. someone should write a summary, who is going to read 56 pages?

 

[Bang Galore]

@Joe Shearer;
did you see this?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/219076-harappan-civilisation-2000-years-older.html

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hellraiser do read some high level history books,i am a masters history student and every source says ghori was carried off,and this blinding prithviraj and him killing ghori with arrow is also propaganda.There is no need for apologistic revisionism that every loss we suffered was due to some treachery or low blow or our own maganimity.This is equal to what our adversaries do with their history .Accept,learn,move on.
On the alexander issue one does agree that his indian invasion on a whole was a big failure despite tactical successes.

Look what you've done. Random lunkheads roaming around (there may be one or two such, who knows?) will assume that you are supporting their revisionist views of Alexander.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Look what you've done. Random lunkheads roaming around (there may be one or two such, who knows?) will assume that you are supporting their revisionist views of Alexander.

Every one has his perception does not mean they have to agree with you.

 

[Bang Galore]

Every one has his perception does not mean they have to agree with you.

As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion, not to your own facts.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion, not to your own facts.

I believe you are about to be thanked again - for all the right reasons, of course. Apropos of nothing, isn't today a working day for schools?

 

[Bang Galore]

I believe you are about to be thanked again - for all the right reasons, of course. Apropos of nothing, isn't today a working day for schools?

You noticed that? Can't believe you take him seriously....

 

[bronxbull]

As I explained, the spread of Vedic culture went hand-in-hand with the caste system, which is custom made to give the ruling elite certain advantages over the masses. Now, if people want to believe that the masses willingly adopted castes which restricted their social and economic mobility, as well as their intellectual freedom, then I don't know what to say.

The likely reality is that the caste system had to be forced onto the people by their rulers. Ergo, the Vedic culture had to be forced.

It is worth noting that, as soon as they had the ability to exit the belief system which imposed the shackles of rigid casteism upon them, the lower castes voted themselves out of Hinduism and into Islam or Christianity.

The elites had no advantage dude,Castes which were called Shudra and had land holdings later one merged to be a great force and they have all the wealth now.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

There is no revisionism in alexander's case as such joe.There is a VERY valid argument that he fled because he understood the logistics and military strength required to carry out a succesful gangetic invasion against an army of not hundred but thousands of war elephants was beyond his means.Megasthenes the greek historian and a contemporary of alexander holds this view,while later historians like arrian say soldier's rebellion,many of these later roman historians are known as sycophants of alexander.As such as in the early case the court poet's account was to be taken with a grain of salt so must these later historians accounts compared to a CONTEMPORARY source.
What i don't disagree on was that hydaspes was a tactical decisive victory for alexander,i never say that alexander lost there.
But alexander lost very large numbers of troops ,some say over 4000[more than gaugamela] and these were later downplayed and also the 2nd point which is now mostly accepted that porus was outnumbered by alexander.
Now if alexander had such difficulty defeating this modest army with 90-140 elephants ,there is serious doubt how he would fare with 5000+ magadhan elephants not to add the other kingdoms .
Also keep in mind that hydaspes was fought in the monsoon season when the indian bamboo bows were far less effective and the chariots bogged down.
This is further vindicated by seleucus one of alexander's best generals tried a similar invasion just a few years later and was trounced by the mauryas under chandragupta.The army of seleucus was virtually identical to that of alexander with many of his veterans would have served,while chandragupta's army was also a beefed up army of magadha.

My thoughts.