Turkish Tank Sees Pakistani, Saudi Interest.

[mingle]

Best tank by weight and range is T72 for Pakistan . Small, agile , light, good protective armor , good handling in marshy area, best cooling system in high temperature , no modification needed like other tanks, plus China is using them for long time. excellent climbing speed. PA reject heavy tanks

how about upgrads ?i meant its old tank

 

[Zarvan]

No altays for Pakistan, not suited to our terrain and is sanction prone, too heavy and expensive . Not to mention, it uses 120mm for which we'll have to buy ammo from overseas which is not on. I don't know why people keep repeating the same story over and over.

Sir this thread was started after high level Turkish official told their Parliament about our interest in this Tank. So we have to wait and see what is going on here

Pakistan Army has been busy over the past few months testing various new tanks that might be added to Pakistan Army's Tank Force. Many treads have been posted and pictures of the trials have also surfaced.
Ukraine offered the OBLOT- M .... This tank failed the tests.
China offered the T-99 .... This tank is not giving the required punch.
Russia offered the T90.... Trials were to be held in December...No details.
Pakistan wanted the ARMATA .... No details.

Option that remains is ALTAY....

Abraham's were tested and rejected. Upgraded are not offered.
Leopard .... Not offered.
Larec... Not offered.

Requirement for a heavy Tank is for the Eastern border. USA operated the Abraham's without any problem in Afghanistan so ALTAY would have no difficulty.

As far as the issue of infrastructure is concerned the entire US and NATO supplies that went to Afghanistan were on Trucks and the roads have been strengthened to carry such loads. If alternate Train Tracks are available then that is a bonus.

If Pakistan Army indeed decides to purchase ALTAY then they would also buy the TULPAR and some other equipment.

Engine is not an issue as Ukraine has transferred the latest engine production facility to Turkey.



The cost of 1000 Altay which Turkey is going to Pay is 5-6 Billion + 3 - 5 billion for the project cost. So if Pakistan does realistically go after 500 tanks 100% made in Turkey They would be paying around 3 + 3 Billion for Parts. However if Pakistan decides to pay 6 -7 billion it can produce 1000 Altay and the parts locally allowing to increase the numbers as required... Also Export options could be exercised.



No doubt you might be correct in regards to ALTAY being not suited for Pakistan, still there are certain other reasons that Pakistan would induct these tanks. These reasons are based on the role Pakistan might be playing in the Islamic World.

120mm is not produced in Pakistan agreed but it can be produced we do have the prerequisites.

IMPO these tanks if procured would be coming for the United Arab Army which is created under the Arab League. Pakistan would also be selling its Al-Khalids to other countries as a medium tank.

Are you sure about transfer of engine facility to Turkey by Ukraine and Ukrainian 1500 HP engine is not ready yet

 

[tarrar]

Well the tank looks good but how is the performance, we will find out when PA decides to take the tank on trial & take the tank to its limits.

Pakistan should work with Turkey & China for advance tanks & for future weapons & fighter jets as well.

 

[Dazzler]

yes right but it will have milimetricwave radar and will use guided ammuniations at next batches altays as i remember.IF Pakistan wants to use these smart ammunations you must buy from abroad or develop yourself .I if dont you have a company cable of devoloping these smart ammunations like roketsan.
Smart ammos are very important and 120 mm guns will fire them.Thats why we knocked on Hyundai Rotems door.

pakistan is not going for 120mm smoothbore guns when it makes its own version of decebt 12mm guns and their ammo inhouse. regarding guided ammo, our tanks are compatible with reflex and Kombat series of anti tank laser guided HEAT rounds. apart of HEAT rounds, no tank ammo is guided.

on your MMW radar, AK series is equipped with RWRs and has an option for mmw radars due to open architecture and 1553 mux bus integration. plug and play stuff. Overall, AK was designed by keeping our requirements in view while Altay fulfils Turkey's requirements.

Best tank by weight and range is T72 for Pakistan . Small, agile , light, good protective armor , good handling in marshy area, best cooling system in high temperature , no modification needed like other tanks, plus China is using them for long time. excellent climbing speed. PA reject heavy tanks

china never operated t-72..

and the t-72 has had many problems of its own such as poor armor, lack of fire control system till the t-72B version and a weak engine. it has many more hence we never opted for it though we showed interest in Yugoslavian M-84 at one stage but that was it.

 

[mikkix]

Amazing thing about tank is it is a 5th gen tank that can fly and easily beat flanker any time.

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[HAIDER]

pakistan is not going for 120mm smoothbore guns when it makes its own version of decebt 12mm guns and their ammo inhouse. regarding guided ammo, our tanks are compatible with reflex and Kombat series of anti tank laser guided HEAT rounds. apart of HEAT rounds, no tank ammo is guided.

on your MMW radar, AK series is equipped with RWRs and has an option for mmw radars due to open architecture and 1553 mux bus integration. plug and play stuff. Overall, AK was designed by keeping our requirements in view while Altay fulfils Turkey's requirements.



china never operated t-72..

and the t-72 has had many problems of its own such as poor armor, lack of fire control system till the t-72B version and a weak engine. it has many more hence we never opted for it though we showed interest in Yugoslavian M-84 at one stage but that was it.

China used T72. But, its really battle hardened tank and it proved its performance in Syrian war. It take hit , but nothing stop this little beast.

 

[HAIDER]

 

[Wolf]

Pakistan should focus on making Al - Khalid a success story like JF - 17 and for that matter Mr. Zarvan has given very promising information. I hope we start producing Al Khalids in large numbers in 1 or 2 years without any delays.

Furthermore, Altay seems an impressive tank. We should as a first step bring Altay to Pakistan and conduct its trials in our desert areas and plain areas. If the tests succeed only then we can think of modalities of how to procure and them and how many and in how much time. If tests succeed, Pakistan may go for joint production with Turkish brothers. Engine issue may be solved, if we replace american engine with ukrainian or russian or the one which otokar is trying to produce. Regarding 120 mm gun, i would like to know is it possible that Turkish may sell us variant of altay with a 125 mm gun?

Active protection system of Altay may be incorporated in AlKhalid if existing one is inferior. Same goes for other technologies. Regards.

 

[bsruzm]

Altay's from Aselsan's AKKOR (APS) introduction:

It looks awesome and I'd like to see such scene in reality.
Hopefully, both Pakistan and KSA get it.

 

[Kompromat]

Altay might not be suitable for Pakistan's terrain due to its weight class. We can however request Turkey to release Altay's technologies to develop upcoming Al-Khalid-2 MBT on a mutually beneficial terms.

 

[Zarvan]

Altay might not be suitable for Pakistan's terrain due to its weight class. We can however request Turkey to release Altay's technologies to develop upcoming Al-Khalid-2 MBT on a mutually beneficial terms.

AK-2 is already being developed with help from Turkey and terrain is not the issue for Altay transport is

 

[Blue Marlin]

AK-2 is already being developed with help from Turkey and terrain is not the issue for Altay transport is

its size thats the problem and that includes weight. at 65 tonne it 15 tonne over the requirements which hovers around 50 tonnes. and tanks that small dont some with a lot of goodies that you find in full fat tanks like the m1-challenger or altay. there are a few exceptions and that being the oplot-m. to be quiet honest pakistan should take influence from israel the merkava 4 thats operates in soft surface areas and is at 65 tonnes and is a beast. now there is the problem of logistics.
i like to think this as an excuse. yes the full fat tanks are obivously bigger. but if you take to account that pakistan and india use broad gauge tracks which are wide to standard specs. this should be strong enough to hold the weight of a 65 +20 tonne tanks and carrage, and even low loader trailers can handel 70+ tonne.
the facilities that hold the tanks may need to extended. it would take an initail investmento to get the maintain and storage facilities upto date to in the end it will pay off.
@Horus what do you think? what are your views?

 

[Viper0011.]

So now we showing interest in Altay... after Chinese T-99

The difference is that the Altay is a Turkish copy of some M1A1 and Leopard combined. While the Chinese T-99 is.......well.....the Chinese T-99

$3 billion is just under half of pakistans defence budget. and they just brought 5 billions worth of subs only last year. but i think its worth saying the coas saw a bit more than the ak1

Pakistan's defense budget has crossed the $ 10 billion per year mark. They don't announce it to maintain a low key posture. By 2018-2020, their defense budget would be going north of $ 15 billion a year (as their economy improves). By 2022, it would be in the range of $ 18+ billion, surpassing Turkey!!

 

[madmusti]

Some Facts:

- There is no Deal between Turkey or another Country about an unfinished Tank
- There is actually no 1800 HP and Altay is still using MTU 1500HP Engine from Germany
- Actually there is no single Turkish Defence Industry Product that is using a locally made Engine, because there is no one


So what about you guys are talking here ? Did i missunderstood something or is it just: