Turkish Special Operations Forces

[LegionnairE]

I agree with @-DENO- 7.62x51 was discussed a million times here.

it all comes down to the fact that Turkey is a mountainous country and our engagement distances are longer than other countries. Therefore effective range & kinetic energy of the 7.62x51 is needed more often than not.

 

[Jackal131]

If you want some real life input on the caliber debate lads its simple.

5.56 is lighter and allows more to be carried, depending on the required operational tactics 5.56 will be chosen if soldiers are expected to fight light and remain highly mobile(rapid retreats, hot pursuits, hit and run, fatiguing terrain), and use overwhelming suppression through round output. However beyond 300m no longer works the way it should, there is no full fragmentation of the round as the required velocity has been lost. In our unit, combat zeroing of the 5.56 weapons is 200-250m. 200m offers optimum results. (Same applies to the AKM)

NATO 7.62 has greater range based on stopping power, greater penetration, greater psychological effect at the cost of weight and lower ammo count. Combat zeroing of standard 7.62 battle rifles is 300-400m, with 400m providing the most optimum results.

All in all a full professional squad with 7.62 battle rifles will outfight a full professional squad of equal training and skill using 5.56. The reason being that 5.56 doctrine will burn through their ammo count through rapid fire just as fast as the methodical fire of a 7.62 equipped squad. The deciding factor boils down to the 7.62 squad knowing the 5.56 squad are using rapid fire and are vastly overstating their numbers, but the fire is less accurate. Whereas the effect on the 5.56 squad is 7.62 rounds hitting harder, more accurately, louder and penetrating a lot more.

The main consideration that many overlook however is the over penetration of the 7.62 in urban areas, which is a huge reason for choosing 5.56. In a full scale war if civilians were not concerned or were not present 7.62 is a better option. However in urban warfare 7.62 also accounts for plenty of fratricide due to over penetration during house to house fighting.

 

[LegionnairE]

The main consideration that many overlook however is the over penetration of the 7.62 in urban areas, which is a huge reason for choosing 5.56

well, later M4 rounds have higher core weight and less penetration aswell...(m855?) M16 was better in that regard

You could probably make the core of the 7.62x51 round light enough that it'd have more penetration than M4... but you'd lose some stopping power... which is okay IMO

But again you might have to change the twist of the barrel to adjust for higher velocity

 

[Jackal131]

well, later M4 rounds have higher core weight and less penetration aswell...(m855?) M16 was better in that regard

You could probably make the core of the 7.62x51 round light enough that it'd have more penetration than M4

NATO 7.62 has far greater penetration than NATO 5.56 regardless of range. Even Russian 5.45 has greater penetration than the 5.56 NATO. As a matter of fact the Russian 5.45 also has greater penetration than the Russian 7.62.

The Russian 5.45 is highly respected by our military and there is a lot of research going into the caliber at the moment.

 

[LegionnairE]

NATO 7.62 has far greater penetration than NATO 5.56 regardless of range. Even Russian 5.45 has greater penetration than the 5.56 NATO.

oh.... you said "over penetration" not "lack of penetration" sorry
minor misunderstanding

I thought 5.56 had really good penetration maybe my information is too old I'm still thinking about M16

 

[Jackal131]

oh.... you said "over penetration" not "lack of penetration" sorry
minor misunderstanding

I thought 5.56 had really good penetration maybe my information is too old I'm still thinking about M16

At 200m exactly the 5.56 NATO is a tremendous round and will have a very flat flight path while maintaining velocity. Once you pass 300m however I would rather throw rocks.

 

[LegionnairE]

At 200m exactly the 5.56 NATO is a tremendous round and will have a very flat flight path while maintaining velocity. Once you pass 300m however I would rather throw rocks.

yeah... as I said, it all comes down to the fact that we're a mountainous country. Our needs are different.

and over penetration isn't a huge issue I think... you'd still kill if you bother to aim
even better if the other guy is wearing a ballistic vest..

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

......

Opscore protection @-DENO-

 

[Samed]

Opscore protection @-DENO-

Bullet hit???

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Yes the projectile is in the helmet.

 

[Samed]

Yes the projectile is in the helmet.

Omg.. Nice helmet then.. Turkish made??

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Omg.. Nice helmet then.. Turkish made??

No. Unfortunately. It is US. Very sophisticated technology.

 

[-DENO-]

Omg.. Nice helmet then.. Turkish made??

Nope US ops-core Sentry helmet....

I'm adding my message again which is aposted it in previous page

It just not that easy. The technology of the ops-core helmets are pretty different and developed than our calssic kevlar ballistic helmets. They are using some special materials and production methods to make helmetsmmuch more thin and lightweight compare to a standard kevlar PASGT or MICH helmet variants with the providing same protection level. I count only the three or four producers who own this tecnology (well knowns are CryePrecision, Team Wendy and Ops-core and some others).

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@-DENO- Bro. Do you know with which bullet our soldiers Opscore was hit?

 

[-DENO-]

@-DENO- Bro. Do you know with which bullet our soldiers Opscore was hit?

7.62x39mm AK-47 round...