Turkish public believes Turkey has no friends - but Turks

[dBSPL]

I can't understand, Why did this Topic reach a point that would insult the issue of caliphate and the founding cadres of the Republic? If there is a discussion within respectful and academic rules, I can translate some official documents on the subject as well as the parliamentary minutes as much as I can. However, I would like to say very briefly; The caliphate was not abolished. The entity lost its causes.

If you criticize our 100 years of struggle, you need start this with self-criticism! There is no captivity in our history. This Flag never landed. We are still bound by the promise of Tughril Beg with our blood and honor. The spirit we carry in us is still the Mujahideen spirit of our ancestors.

âmâlimiz efkârımız ikbâl-i vatandır
ecdâdımızın heybeti ma’ruf-i cihandır
fıtrat değişir sanma bu kan yine o kandır
gavgaada şehâdetle bütün kâm alırız biz
osmanlılarız can veririz nâm alırız biz

Just think, Were there any other sovereign and independent Muslim states in the world while Turks establishing their new state, just after the fought non-stop for about 30 years? What do you think the caliphate would do? Apart from turning into the Queen's political instrument. None of you have the courage to look at the 1920 world map? The caliphate was disintegrated in every aspect, even within its own territory, with the promise of imaginary lands to some tribal leaders by invaders (of course, these were just for the fooling the traitors).

Anatolian Muslims who established the republic of this day: They were people, struggling in their poorness and loneliness. We fought two generations, from the Balkans to the Caucasus and Africa. Millions of people who were victims of these wars took refuge in Anatolia during this time. Have you ever thought why Turks call Anatolia the last castle? Because these lands have been the last shelter for the exiled or oppressed people for centuries. Just like Spanish Jews took refuge in these lands; as well as the Ahiskans or Crimean survivers who escaped from the soviet persecution came to here... The Circassians had taken refuge in these lands, just like the Kurds and Arabs of Syria and Iraq today.

How easy is always to blame Turkey ... Let's hate Turk's western progressivism or reforms together... Thus, we solved all the problems. How simple is the world!

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Brother, where does your hate of Turks stem from? I have seen you take other controversial opinions as well.

Do you feel you have to be anti-Turkish because majority of your countrymen are pro-Turkish?

No hate! Sometimes, what you see is not my opinion but parsing an opinion through what maybe construed as controversial. In fact, even the quoted part(my opinion) is not actually me making that deduction but my reflection on an opinion... hope I made it clear.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

They are far more Turks then you are a pakistani. Yes they western cloths but only in capitals like Ankara and Istanbul or other hug cities. In country side people are more modest. They have family system just like us. They speak their own language proudly and don't even litter it with english words. They prefer their own food. They wear their own ethnicity proudly.
And they keep all their old customs still. Their wedding customs are same as 150 years ago.
Surely they find freinds in Pakistan.
This article is I think about bugger economies. Their exports are growing day by day and they have not done anything wrong to their society.
Rich treats poor equal not like us as we treat poor as animals. Their society is much evolved. They don't have these fake norms we have about what and when and how to do things.
They are doing all the right things.

I know what you are trying to say... nationalism, nationalist... etc.
Please reread the header... it is Turks own opinion... they consider themselves all alone...
Every single neighbor of theirs is on top 10 list of nations who wish them harm...
Pakistan is on the radar of friends list but down the line...

 

[dBSPL]

This is a learned reality. Moreover, you do not need to go back 100 years. See almost completely destroyed nations in the Caucasus and the Crimea after World War II and beyond. See how Iraqi Turkmen were massacred in the 1950s and 60s ... See how the Turkish Cypriots were massacred in the 1970s ... Look at the suffering of the Bulgarian Turks in the 1980s. See how the Azerbaijanis were massacred in the 90s ...

It is impossible to develop a healthy idea under too much prejudice and very little historical information here.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I know what you are trying to say... nationalism, nationalist... etc.
Please reread the header... it is Turks own opinion... they consider themselves all alone...
Every single neighbor of theirs is on top 10 list of nations who wish them harm...
Pakistan is on the radar of friends list but down the line...

That is because of the designs against Turkey by US and allies.

Some of the neighbors like Armenia and Greece carry historical hatred, only remembering the bad, and never accepting all the good Ottomans did for them. Blind nationalism can become toxic.

For sure a noose is being created around Turkey's neck, we can all see that. Germans and French Kuffar are fighting for PKK, it is no surprise. Israel, Russia, and Iran are eager to support them. Americans giving them their flags to use in battle, for protection.

I pray for this brave nation. They are alone in this region because the Muslims around them (except North Cyprus and Azerbaijan) have sold their souls to the Devil. Arabs and Persians are equally contemptible when it comes to Turkey.

However, Turks should know that they always have a historical and loyal friend in Pakistan, no matter what. The whole of Pakistan will erupt if anything happens to Turkey, just like with the Khilafat movement against the British and defection at Gallipolli.

They should know that we can get revenge on the enemies of Turkey too, if they try to harm our friend and former Khilafat. Pakistan is a similar brave spirited nation, and our rise is just around the corner. Imran Khan is doing phenomenal work here to restart Pakistan on the path of success.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

This is a learned reality. Moreover, you do not need to go back 100 years. See almost completely destroyed nations in the Caucasus and the Crimea after World War II and beyond. See how Iraqi Turkmen were massacred in the 1950s and 60s ... See how the Turkish Cypriots were massacred in the 1970s ... Look at the suffering of the Bulgarian Turks in the 1980s. See how the Azerbaijanis were massacred in the 90s ...

There is too much prejudice and very little historical information here. It is impossible to develop a healthy idea.

I totally get it... but shouldn't the answer be in making allies with at least the Turks and well wishers around Turkiye?
On this very forum... and as you saw for yourself... Pakistanis were shocked not to see themselves much higher in the list to be relevant...
Whereas, state of Pakistan both recognizes Northern Cyprus and doesn't recognize Armenia because of Turks as both do not border Pakistan.

 

[dani92]

Considering Chinese and Russians motives, you are the last to be an authority on this subject.

Turan is even mentioned in Shahnameh, a historical epic from ancient Persia.

In addition, Turkish empires like Seljuks, Ghaznavis, Ottomans, Mughals/Baburoguleri, etc. relied on Pan-Turkism as a matter of policy. It is not a coincidence, for example, that most of the ruling class of these empires like Mughals were Turkish or heavily intermarried with Turks.

Sometime around the fall of Banu Abbas, the last Arab empire, Turks became the primary movers, defenders, scholars, and conquerors of the Islamic world.

All of these were heavily persianized or Arabized like the mamluks, tulunids ect. As for Turan is mythical place of ancient Iranian tribe who have nothing to do with the Turks and pan turkism didn’t even exist back then.

 

[IblinI]

Its amazing how bad the chinese are regarding world history yet have an opinion about everything, happens all the time on PDF, just keep quiet if you dont know about a subject...

You mean like how you guys come to Chinese historical doc to dig the story of your so called "ancestors"?

Considering Chinese and Russians motives, you are the last to be an authority on this subject.

Turan is even mentioned in Shahnameh, a historical epic from ancient Persia.

In addition, Turkish empires like Seljuks, Ghaznavis, Ottomans, Mughals/Baburoguleri, etc. relied on Pan-Turkism as a matter of policy. It is not a coincidence, for example, that most of the ruling class of these empires like Mughals were Turkish or heavily intermarried with Turks.

Sometime around the fall of Banu Abbas, the last Arab empire, Turks became the primary movers, defenders, scholars, and conquerors of the Islamic world.

Simple question, what does Uzb,Kazak put down ethnicity in their passport,"Turks"?What about Dannish,Swedish, "German"?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Your foreign relations that based on religion rather nation state interests will but you in awkward situations like your relationship with China and the uyghur issue are you going to choose your Muslim brothers over your country interests and sacrifice your relationship with China or choose China and sacrifice your Uyghur Muslim brothers?!.

My answer is bit complicated... reflecting the kind of world we live in...
Pakistan as a state is secular(with a professed belief) and it is not a nation state. Having said that, idea of Pakistan itself is very revolutionary something it's leadership and government is not equipped to handle nor leaders with vision and/or capacity. That being said, Pakistan has taken often very bold decisions, decisions that could have been taken only under the purview of this kind of state. Uyghurs furture is shaping up with this greater region... with the regional connectivity, commerce, movement of people, goods and ideas will once again rejuvenate the entire region. Which primarily suffered due to hard borders between competing empires not too long ago but also shutting down of silk roads...

In their lies my answer.

 

[dBSPL]

I totally get it... but shouldn't the answer be in making allies with at least the Turks and well wishers around Turkiye?
On this very forum... and as you saw for yourself... Pakistanis were shocked not to see themselves much higher in the list to be relevant...
Whereas, state of Pakistan both recognizes Northern Cyprus and doesn't recognize Armenia because of Turks as both do not border Pakistan.

Pakistan and Bangladesh withdrew their decisions in a short time. In 1983 Bangladesh and Pakistan withdrew recognition after UNSC Resolution 541 and international pressure. Ofc, We were understand why is that.There is no one who officially recognizes outside of Turkey, but some countries such as Azerbaijan accepts TRNC with its de facto situation.

Cyprus was one of the bloodiest massacres against to the Turkish community , but it was not the only massacre in the last 60 years. While TR left alone even in Cyprus issue by the Muslim countries, no need to count other events.

From my perspective, Pakistan's most prominent political support to Turkey for crossborder operation is actually held in recent years. Of course we are grateful to Pakistan.But I don't understand what is purpose, by limiting this thread to the Pakistan-Turkey relations.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

All of these were heavily persianized or Arabized like the mamluks, tulunids ect. As for Turan is mythical place of ancient Iranian tribe who have nothing to do with the Turks and pan turkism didn’t even exist back then.

Defining Turks as an ethnic group is difficult because of two very fundamental reasons... they were very mobile and they mixed with natives where ever they settled... but language certainly still remains a way to connect with history and geography.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Pakistan and Bangladesh withdrew their decisions in a short time. In 1983 Bangladesh and Pakistan withdrew recognition after UNSC Resolution 541 and international pressure. Ofc, We were understand why is that.There is no one who officially recognizes outside of Turkey, but some countries such as Azerbaijan accepts TRNC with its de facto situation.

Cyprus was one of the bloodiest massacres against to the Turkish community , but it was not the only massacre in the last 60 years. While TR left alone even in Cyprus issue by the Muslim countries, no need to count other events.

From my perspective, Pakistan's most prominent political support to Turkey for crossborder operation is actually held in recent years. Of course we are grateful to Pakistan. I don't understand what is purpose, by limiting this thread to the Pakistan-Turkey relations.

Actually it shouldn't be limited to Pakistan. It has grown up as such due to obvious reasons. As you can see above ... I tried to keep it within the confines of Turkiye itself and about Turkish opinion.

 

[IblinI]

language certainly still remains a way to connect with history and geography.

More likely the only way, since the beginning they were a mixture of different tribes under one clan, a tribal confederation.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

More likely the only way, since the beginning they were a mixture of different tribes under the same clan, a tribal confederation.

That is the correct view... there is no single clan/tribe who can claim or ever claimed to be the original Turks... so all we have is an amalgamation.

 

[dBSPL]

We are in the process of confederative preparation within the scope of the 10, 20 and 50 year plans of the Turkic Council. If you wish, I can give information about the sub-commission studies, parliamentary assemblies, meeting minutes and compliance processes.

But how relevant are they to this topic?

Those who interpret the Turkish nation as small different ethnicities in accordance with their hegamonic interests, or even worse, who speak without any knowledge of the subject ...

On the other side those who curses our founding cadres of Turkey's establishment, because of secularism or non-caliphate ...

The subject came to a ridiculous point as always.