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Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

Do you agree with what I wrote?

  • I agree

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • I agree but,....

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • I don't agree

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 5 38.5%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
Jerusalem in it's entirety is Israel's eternal capital and not 80% or 50% or even 99.99%.
Once again: current borders of Jerusalem are artificial and drawn by Avoda government in 1967. There is absolutely nothing holy in them, unless u believe that Levy Eshkol was a messiah. There is no whatsoever difference between the Abu Dis village (which is part of Jerusalem for some unknown reason) and Beit Hanina village (which is not part of Jerusalem for some unknown reason). More over, I have a flash news for u: Jerusalem is already divided by separation barrier in several places.

So all these talks about united Jerusalem are laughable populism. When u will grow up u will understand too.
 
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Oh boy, inner Israeli beef.

Indeed its good to see finally some Jews fighting over political differences its always bothered me you know "When countless groups in PDF fighting over politics from time to time why those Jews don't?" I was sure they made some kind of agreement between them not to fight in PDF happens to be full of Israel hater muslims.
 
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Once again: current borders of Jerusalem are artificial and drawn by Avoda government in 1967. There is absolutely nothing holy in them, unless u believe that Levy Eshkol was a messiah. There is no whatsoever difference between the Abu Dis village (which is part of Jerusalem for some unknown reason) and Beit Hanina village (which is not part of Jerusalem for some unknown reason). More over, I have a flash news for u: Jerusalem is already divided by separation barrier in several places.

So all these talks about united Jerusalem are laughable populism. When u will grow up u will understand too.
A problem to be solved with this two state solution. Palestinian Arabs will go to Palestine and land swaps will occur, willingly or otherwise.

It matters little what you believe, because your opinion as an individual is meaningless, what does matter is the connection that Israelis feel to Jerusalem(Artificial boundaries or otherwise). Jerusalem was liberated by the brave for the Jewish nation. Giving up even an inch is treason.
 
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Jerusalem in it's entirety is Israel's eternal capital and not 80% or 50% or even 99.99%. If you disagree then that's your problem, not mine. Some argue that many parts of Israel are mostly Arab, should we give those up too? Give up the North, South, half of the Capital, East and West? Those naive ideologies of "land for peace" have shown what they are worth and what an Arab's word is worth.

You don't dare to take over Al-Aqsa mosque, and about lands, you will get kicked out one day. How could you picture Israel without USA with keeping occupation of Palestine? USA like any other hyper-power throughout history will crumble one day. I pity you if you really think you would survive like this forever. Accept 1967 lands now or you will get nothing. Even Arabs who always believed in peace went through hell, King Abdullah The First proposed giving Jews their state on about 35% of Palestine and he was assassinated, King Hussein believed in peace and he got 21 assassination attempts and was called traitor. And now king Abdullah is trying the same but it seems even he, the most moderate Arab leader, started losing hope in peace and talking about inevitable wars. You don't want peace.
I am for the two state plan, but not if it is for another false peace. We all know Abbas will crumble without Israel and Hamas will take over the West Bank. You want to give them more land?

I'm never for occupation of those godforsaken Arabs but rather i`m for protecting ourselves by forging alliances with the right people. We shouldn't have left Lebanon as that failure of a PM did before we made sure our alliances wouldn't crumble within a day as the Phalangists did.

And i`m not for giving up a single piece of land unless we are certain that we have a strong Arab leading those savages who won't succumb to Hamas and will actually hold the peace, albeit a temporary peace.
As I said, if you don't accept two states solution now, you won't even have a state.
 
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You don't dare to take over Al-Aqsa mosque, and about lands, you will get kicked out one day. How could you picture Israel without USA with keeping occupation of Palestine? USA like any other hyper-power throughout history will crumble one day. I pity you if you really think you would survive like this forever. Accept 1967 lands now or you will get nothing. Even Arabs who always believed in peace went through hell, King Abdullah The First proposed giving Jews their state on about 35% of Palestine and he was assassinated, King Hussein believed in peace and he got 21 assassination attempts and was called traitor. And now king Abdullah is trying the same but it seems even he, the most moderate Arab leader, started losing hope in peace and talking about inevitable wars. You don't want peace.

As I said, if you don't accept two states solution now, you won't even have a state.

Excuse me? Coffee and Falafel, and be quick about it.
 
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Excuse me? Coffee and Falafel, and be quick about it.

Coffee with Falafel? Are you lunatic or sth?:lol:
Joke now, because your children and grandchildren won't have the apatite to do that.
 
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Israel didn't "dare" to take over Al-Aqsa mosque. So, Israel doesn't have the "courage". So, if Israel took over Al Aqsa, forbid all Muslims from visiting it, and deported all Arabs from Israel, that would show some "courage".

Using this line of argument as an "reason" for Israel's weakness shows a zero-sum mentality.

Israel is strong and secure, established under principles of justice. Which is why it feels no need to restrict Muslims in any way from visiting Al Aqsa or otherwise. It has nothing to fear.
 
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What I am saying is that Israel is breading extremism by refusing peace, take the chance now because

Peace has to be agreed by both parties, Israel and Arabs. Israel has made very generous peace proposals, latest being Olmert's proposal, but the Arabs are not ready to accept it. On the other hand, Abu Mazen's latest stunt at the UN shows another unilateral action, worthless in it's face value.


Just imagine if Arabs accepted two states solutions before 1948 as they do now, we would have been spared taking 10 wars and we would have been living in peace and prosperity. All the extremist, dictator, and brutal regimes and groups take Israel as a pretext of their actions.

Why not adopt trust building measures? Israel withdrew voluntarity from gaza and evacuated all Jewish homes in Gaza in 2005. Unfortunately, this unilateral action wasn't reciprocated by Hamas who fired rockets in return. Rockets/year reached more than 5000 and Israel had to spank Hamas in 2008.

I am sure Arab leaders want peace, but terrorist groups like Hamas are holding the Arabs hostage. If GCC volunteers to carry out a military operation against Hamas, this would go a long way to build trust and I'm sure Israel would reciprocate. Egypt will never do it now that extremist Muslim Brotherhood runs the country.
 
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Peace has to be agreed by both parties, Israel and Arabs. Israel has made very generous peace proposals, latest being Olmert's proposal, but the Arabs are not ready to accept it. On the other hand, Abu Mazen's latest stunt at the UN shows another unilateral action, worthless in it's face value.




Why not adopt trust building measures? Israel withdrew voluntarity from gaza and evacuated all Jewish homes in Gaza in 2005. Unfortunately, this unilateral action wasn't reciprocated by Hamas who fired rockets in return. Rockets/year reached more than 5000 and Israel had to spank Hamas in 2008.

I am sure Arab leaders want peace, but terrorist groups like Hamas are holding the Arabs hostage. If GCC volunteers to carry out a military operation against Hamas, this would go a long way to build trust and I'm sure Israel would reciprocate. Egypt will never do it now that extremist Muslim Brotherhood runs the country.

My friend, too many wrong things and if you allow me they are silly. Since You believe in them and it's hard to get changed, then plz be my guest.
 
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My friend, too many wrong things and if you allow me they are silly. Since You believe in them and it's hard to get changed, then plz be my guest.

Source of information is indeed very important, get it wrong here and you have your whole judgment wrong. If you are interested in knowing both version of the story, meaning from both Jewish and Arab side, then be my guest. Otherwise, I'm afraid no amount of reasoning can convince you. This, I'm saying to you because the single most prominent reason why Muslims and Arabs are hostile to Israel is because they are simply misinformed.
 
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Source of information is indeed very important, get it wrong here and you have your whole judgment wrong. If you are interested in knowing both version of the story, meaning from both Jewish and Arab side, then be my guest. Otherwise, I'm afraid no amount of reasoning can convince you. This, I'm saying to you because the single most prominent reason why Muslims and Arabs are hostile to Israel is because they are simply misinformed.

Actually, I had no problem in reasoning people for example like 500, or even petx because they reflect their people point of view and they are to some extent realistic and honest and yet debatable. But, what you say (in debates related to Israel) is just silly and too messed up to the point I can't use reasoning. Sorry, no offence.
 
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Sir, no need to get emotional, post reported.
did you see what he wrote before i posted that?
Strange perception you have ,report whatever you want.

BREAKING NEWS: ISRAEL REMOVES THE GAZZA BLOCKADE


Back to topic fellas and my fellow citizens, you're wrong. At WWI, The Jews whom were Ottoman citizens, they did NOT betrayed. They fought in the South Front of WWI ottoman lands. I don't know why some of our brothers hate Israel. But personally, i like israel and it's people.
I dont care what evryone thinks im with Israel so?
Like or dislike who cares,for me Israel worth something shalom.
Btw im a muslim.
 
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Dont delude yourself. Azerbaijan is not a natural ally of Israel, just a reliant supplier of natural gas. Pretty much ends there.

However Israel does need a more powerful regional power and state like Turkey, to have good relations with it, for Israel's security in the region.
Even the irrational NutAndYahoo realized that, and that is why he appologized.
Yeah and now get over the fact that you lost.
No need bla bla for nothing,i know you worried now and gl.
 
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Erdogan is going to go to Gaza Haber : Erdo?an Gazze'ye gidiyor FLA? haberi

Now that i'm sure relations is not going to be like the old days with Israel. Probably he is going to give union messages to Arab world.

Turkey confirmed that Mr Erdogan accepted the apology. In a statement, the foreign ministry in Ankara added that the Turkish prime minister had expressed his regret that “relations that have strategic importance for peace and stability in the region” had been disrupted and he had emphasised “centuries of common history and strong bonds of friendship between the Turkish and Jewish people”.

“Erdogan is one of the most pragmatic political figures around,” said Ross Wilson, a former US Ambassador to Ankara now at the Atlantic Council. “He will stake out tough if not extreme positions. and yet he will take other actions that advance his and Turkey’s interests and that is what he has done here: he has eased a big problem in US-Turkish relations that constrained President Obama’s ability to deal with Turkey sensibly and he has expanded the menu of possibilities on Syria for Turkey.”

Nevertheless, few officials expect relations between the two governments to be warm, despite the move towards normal diplomatic ties.

Israel apologises for Turkish boat attack - FT.com

Actually, I had no problem in reasoning people for example like 500, or even petx because they reflect their people point of view and they are to some extent realistic and honest and yet debatable. But, what you say (in debates related to Israel) is just silly and too messed up to the point I can't use reasoning. Sorry, no offence.

It is not shameful to admit weakness in English comprehension ability.
 
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(CNN) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu apologized Friday to Turkey for a 2009 raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla, both nations said, signaling a potential major thaw after three years of chilly relations between the two key Middle East nations.

The Israeli leader phoned his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, while sitting with U.S. President Barack Obama in a trailer on a Tel Aviv airport tarmac. In the call -- which Turkey's foreign minister said lasted for nearly 30 minutes -- Netanyahu acknowledged "operational mistakes" during the raid, which ended with eight Turks and an American of Turkish origin dead.

"(Netanyahu) made it clear that the tragic results regarding the Mavi Marmara were unintentional and that Israel expresses regret over injuries and loss of life," the Israeli government said.

Erdogan accepted the apology, which came shortly after he talked with the leaders of Egypt and Qatar. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said later on state TV, according to the semiofficial Anadolu news agency, that all Turkey's demands had been met.
2010: Flotilla video tells two stories
Former diplomat: Obama's trip a success
Egypt, Israel, Turkey: Tensions high

It wasn't immediately clear what impact the conversation might have on a region that is already home to numerous crises -- such as the deadly, two-year-long civil war in Syria and tensions over Iran's nuclear programs.

At the least, the movement toward mending a rift between two of Washington's top allies appeared to be a boon for Obama, who said he's been appealing to Netanyahu and Erdogan "for the last two years" for them to fix "this rupture."

"There are obviously going to still be some significant disagreements ... but they also have a wide range of shared interests, and they both happen to be extraordinarily strong partners and friends of ours," Obama said at a press conference with Jordan's King Abdullah II. "So it's in the interest of the United States that they begin this process of getting their relationship back in order."

'An important step'

While there was little public indication ahead of a time that there would be a breakthrough Thursday, Davutoglu said it actually came after three years of tough negotiations.

The talks picked up steam in the past week, spurred by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and other officials, the Turkish foreign minister added.

On Thursday, Obama said he talked with Netanyahu about his reaching out to Erdogan, "and both of us agreed that the moment was right." The U.S. president at one point got on the call between the two Middle East leaders, said two senior administration officials who labeled the call "an important step" in normalizing Turkish-Israeli ties.

"During my visit, it appeared that the timing was good for that conversation to take place," Obama said, without elaborating.

Turkey and Israel have been two pro-Western political, economic, and military linchpins in the Middle East, and their falling out has hurt initiatives to tackle problems in the region, such as the Syrian civil war and tensions relating to Iran's nuclear aspirations.

A Muslim member of NATO, Turkey long had been Israel's most significant Muslim friend, and the deterioration of relations between the two nations intensified the Jewish state's isolation in the region, more unstable in light of the Arab Spring and other ferment in the Middle East. Erdogan's critical rhetoric toward Israeli policies in Gaza have been hailed by many in the Arab world.

It's not clear when and if such steps as fully normalizing relations and returning ambassadors to their posts will be taken. Earlier Israel had sent out a statement saying those steps had been agreed upon, but it later amended its statement by removing those points.

There also was no word on whether the once-close nations would resume the joint military exercises that were suspended after the Mavi Marmara incident.

Turkey had been prosecuting four Israeli soldiers in absentia, and Israel initially said the two leaders agreed to the cancellation of legal steps against the troops. Later, however, its amended statement omitted that action as well.

Agreeing to work together

In Thursday's conversation, Erdogan told Netanyahu that he thought the deterioration of ties between the countries was regrettable, especially given "the shared history and centuries old ties of strong friendship and cooperation between the Jewish and Turkish peoples."

According to a statement released by the Turkish government, Erdogan discussed with his Israeli counterpart the "importance of a just, lasting and comprehensive resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict on the basis of the two-state vision."

The two leaders "agreed to work together to improve the humanitarian situation in the Palestinian territories," the Turkish statement said.

The Israeli government said in a statement the two sides would "work to improve the humanitarian situation in the Palestinian territories," with Netanyahu noting Israel has "substantially lifted the restrictions" on entry of civilian goods into Gaza. Helping the Palestinian people had long been a concern for Turkey, and was the reason ostensibly that the flotilla set sail for Gaza in the first place.

Israel long has voiced concerns about arms smuggling to Gaza militants intent on attacking the Jewish state. Gaza is controlled by Hamas, an anti-Israel group regarded as a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel.

But activists say Israel's embargo of goods into Gaza from land and sea punishes civilians in the tiny and densely populated strip of land along the Mediterranean coast.

Israel has said any organization or state that wants to give humanitarian aid to Gaza can do so in coordination with Israeli authorities via existing land crossings into the Palestinian territory.

All that said, the highlight of the conversation dealt with the 2009 raid. Israel has long stood by the operation, though its tune publicly changed Friday.

"In light of Israel's investigation into the incident, which pointed out several operational mistakes, Prime Minister Netanyahu expressed Israel's apology to the Turkish people for any mistakes that might have led to loss of life or injury and agreed to conclude an agreement on compensation/nonliability," the Israeli government said.

Asked to confirm whether Netanyahu called and apologized and offered compensation, as Ankara had long demanded, a senior Turkish official told CNN: "Yes." Erdogan only said they "agreed to conclude an agreement on compensation/nonliability."

One Palestinian-Israeli lawmaker doesn't like it

Hanin Zoabi, a Palestinian activist who was on the Mavi Marmara and also is a Palestinian member of Israel's parliament, said she does not accept Netanyahu's apology. She wants an international court to try the people "involved in the political decision that gave a green light to kill the political activists on the Marmara."

She said Netanyahu's push to improve Israeli-Turkish ties is undermining the Palestinians' demands -- such as ending Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Israeli military and economic strictures on Gaza. She said Netanyahu is trying to evade that and other issues.

"The issue is not only Marmara, Marmara was the small crime. The big crime was the siege on Gaza," she told CNN.

Gulden Sonme -- a spokeswoman for IHH, the Muslim aid agency that operated the Mavi Marmara == called the apology "a positive political development."

"But in terms of the need for the blockade on Gaza to end and in terms of the ongoing case to punish those who are responsible for the crimes committed during the raid, the legal process will continue," she said, referring to the case against the soldiers.

Suat Kiniklioglu, a Turkish political analyst and former parliamentarian from Erdogan's party, said the apology is important because it shows "to the world that there is a political price to kill Turkish citizens in international waters."

"Probably in the Middle East, as well, it will be seen as political victory for the Erdogan government. But what matters more is the normalization itself, the obvious benefits to Turkey and Israel as well as the Palestinians."

The prospect of an Israeli-Turkish reconciliation is bad news, Kiniklioglu said, for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and Iran.

"As Syria is entering into its third year of uprising, Ankara and Tel-Aviv will have to coordinate policy and may need to work together to contain potential risks to both countries," he said.

source: Israel to Turkey: Sorry for the deadly raid - CNN.com
 
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