Turkish Politics & Internal Affairs

[Targon]

When the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates were destroyed, Suleiman the Magnificient was in rule, so Ottomans were at their peak, they didn't showed effort to stop Russians.

Ottomans kept them as slaves, just because some of them got better positions, particularly devhshirmes who were specially taken for this role doesn!t means all of them were like this., most of them were pretty much continued their life as slaves, as you can see even little children are taken as slaves, European slavery being worse doesn't removes that fact.

No not really, many Atheists, actually majority of them read Quran, its ironically Muslims who don't read Quran enough, and the ones who read it usually reads in Arabic, only a minority reads in Turkish and understands.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

...
No not really, many Atheists, actually majority of them read Quran, its ironically Muslims who don't read Quran enough, and the ones who read it usually reads in Arabic, only a minority reads in Turkish and understands.

This part is still waiting for more clarification, Some people claim it has to be read in Arabic whereas the same people cannot answer the question how non-muslims will get it and opt the Islam, at this point they say it is ok that they could read it in their own language, but to get sevap they have to read it in Arabic.

That is the part that shows their contradiction, for the meaning of it will be the same, so why the arabic is so important.

 

[Targon]

Current Islam people lives has so many nonsense in it, its mainly thanks to some ignorant and simple minded clerics at past.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

When the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates were destroyed, Suleiman the Magnificient was in rule, so Ottomans were at their peak, they didn't showed effort to stop Russians.

Ottomans kept them as slaves, just because some of them got better positions, particularly devhshirmes who were specially taken for this role doesn!t means all of them were like this., most of them were pretty much continued their life as slaves, as you can see even little children are taken as slaves, European slavery being worse doesn't removes that fact.

No not really, many Atheists, actually majority of them read Quran, its ironically Muslims who don't read Quran enough, and the ones who read it usually reads in Arabic, only a minority reads in Turkish and understands.

You mentioned about devshirme system what kind of books are you read ? Please learn it from solid sources.

Catch link Devşirme - Vikipedi

Im reading Quran as Turkish and Arabic thanks to Allah so its their own responsibility about reading....

We should read it Turkish of course if not how we gonna unserstand it ?

Also Quran should read as Arabic because these words are came from Allah...

If you learn Arabic and then understand Quran properly which will be more more better because Arabic is a most advanced language in the world. Every people understand Quran but if you are well educated you can understand more than others because it includes to much science.... this way Quran has lots of translates and tafsirs.....

 

[Targon]

Devşirme is not the only way of taking slaves, it was a special system, and those statesmen etc. were coming from there, thats what I'm talking about, ordinary slaves were just slaves.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Devşirme is not the only way of taking slaves, it was a special system, and those statesmen etc. were coming from there, thats what I'm talking about, ordinary slaves were just slaves.

Please give me books names so i wanna search it because my sources not saying same things...

 

[Targon]

I already gave you a direct quote from a Ottoman era source what do you want more ? check the mentioned source if you want, its already late I'm going to sleep.

Bir yanlış anlaşılma yoktur inşallah, ben Devşirme sisteminin klasik köle/esir sisteminden farklı olduğunu söylüyorum, ikiside uygulandı, o devlet adamları, subaylar vs. Devşirme sisteminden geliyordu çünkü bu sistem özellikle bu amaçla kurulmuştu, ama savaşlarda, akınlarda vs. esir alınan kölelerin durumu farklı, bunlar pazarlarda alınıp satılıyordu, cariye, maraba vs. oluyorlardı.

 

[Hakan]

@legionaire

Im trying to bring you back buddy. The one day ban thing was a fail. The infraction point expired but your still not unbanned. Im working as hard as i can to bring you back. Its 1 a.m here and im losing sleep after breaking my word even if it was unintentional.

Hakini helal et.

 

[xenon54 out]

People.

I can understand you but dont listen to others, we need you here.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

I already gave you a direct quote from a Ottoman era source what do you want more ? check the mentioned source if you want, its already late I'm going to sleep.

Bir yanlış anlaşılma yoktur inşallah, ben Devşirme sisteminin klasik köle/esir sisteminden farklı olduğunu söylüyorum, ikiside uygulandı, o devlet adamları, subaylar vs. Devşirme sisteminden geliyordu çünkü bu sistem özellikle bu amaçla kurulmuştu, ama savaşlarda, akınlarda vs. esir alınan kölelerin durumu farklı, bunlar pazarlarda alınıp satılıyordu, cariye, maraba vs. oluyorlardı.

Okay i found that "AşıK PAŞAZADE" book and i checked so it mention about captured slaves but Ottoman system let them for being soldier or workers also this workers can gain money and live like Ottoman citizen or who was can get proportion like %50 of their work while working in state plantations...also Ottoman was releasing them for different reasons... so whole these system forbidden complately in 1847 by Abdulmecid.

As you see our system was so fair according to europe, so europe was so cruel against slaves they were cut their fingers, kill for easy reasons, assaults so on....

If you look the Islam slavery is complately forbidden so this way Ottoman was relase them or take them soldier or appoint to state affairs.

sources
Osmanlı İmparatorluğu'nda kölelik - Vikipedi
İslam'da kölelik - Vikipedi

 

[Targon]

I told you before

Sen Devşirme sistemi ile normal köleliği karıştırıyorsun, o devlet adamları, askerler devşirme sisteminden geliyor, bundan ayrı sistemsiz kölelikte var, Akınlardan toplanan kadınlar, çocuklar, erkekler pazarlarda satılıyor, kimisi cariye oluyor, kimisi ağır işçi, hayvan bakıcısı, seyis vs. oluyor. Bu sistem dünyanın geri kalanındaki kölelik/serflik sisteminden çok farklı değil, senin bahsettiğin Avrupadaki kölelik sistemi coğrafi keşiflerden sonra oluyor.

Ayrıca başka yerlerdeki köleliğin konuyla alakası yok, sen kadınlara çocuklara dokunulmuyordu dedin bende buna cevap verdim, gördüğün gibi bal gibi dokunuluyordu.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

I told you before

Sen Devşirme sistemi ile normal köleliği karıştırıyorsun, o devlet adamları, askerler devşirme sisteminden geliyor, bundan ayrı sistemsiz kölelikte var, Akınlardan toplanan kadınlar, çocuklar, erkekler pazarlarda satılıyor, kimisi cariye oluyor, kimisi ağır işçi, hayvan bakıcısı, seyis vs. oluyor. Bu sistem dünyanın geri kalanındaki kölelik/serflik sisteminden çok farklı değil, senin bahsettiğin Avrupadaki kölelik sistemi coğrafi keşiflerden sonra oluyor.

Ayrıca başka yerlerdeki köleliğin konuyla alakası yok, sen kadınlara çocuklara dokunulmuyordu dedin bende buna cevap verdim, gördüğün gibi bal gibi dokunuluyordu.

Benim ima ettiğim husus kadınlara tecavüz etme ve çocukların öldürülmesi olaraktı, yüz yıllardan beri avrupanın işgal ettiği ülkelere yaptığı şey yani, neyse Türkçe olarak anlaşacağız en sonunda galiba

I meant we never kill childreen or rape woman but europe have done is since hundred years.

 

[Targon]

Çocuklar köle olarak daha değerli, ama bildiğim kadarıyla tecavüz vakaları vardı, din herkesin uçkuruna hakim olamaz sonuçta, düz tecavüzden başka bu köle cariye olarak getirilen kadınlardanda haliyle kılıfına uydurulup faydalanılıyordu.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Çocuklar köle olarak daha değerli, ama bildiğim kadarıyla tecavüz vakaları vardı, din herkesin uçkuruna hakim olamaz sonuçta, düz tecavüzden başka bu köle cariye olarak getirilen kadınlardanda haliyle kılıfına uydurulup faydalanılıyordu.

Cariyeler Padişahlar tarafından belirli bir sayıda alınabiliyordu resmi nikahlı ve cariye olarak. Diğerleri işçi konumunda çalıştırılırdı, durumu müsayit olanlar evlendirilir azat edilirdi. Ayrıca bahsettiğin gibi vakaların vuku bulması her devirde mümkün onun önünede malesef geçilememiş...

 

[-SINAN-]

Benim ima ettiğim husus kadınlara tecavüz etme ve çocukların öldürülmesi olaraktı, yüz yıllardan beri avrupanın işgal ettiği ülkelere yaptığı şey yani, neyse Türkçe olarak anlaşacağız en sonunda galiba
I meant we never kill childreen or rape woman but europe have done is since hundred years.

Bir şehir kuşatma sonucu ele geçirildiğinde. Askerlere 3 gün yağma izni veriliyordu... askerler o zaman acaba şehirde bulduklara kadınlara, çiçek verip, nehir kenarında el ele mi geziyordu ?

Hepimiz ecdadımızla gurur duyuyoruz ama bazı şeyleri de çarpıtıp, gerçekten uzaklaştırmamak lazım.