Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[SouI]

I still think that we could prevent at least half o f those ATGM incidents. I don't see close air support or optical search vehicles. 6 of our tanks got hit, 2 of them are still working, 4 of them damaged seriously. We just entered few km. If we really want to clear all Raqqa to Tal Abyad, Ayn issa to Ayn Al-Arab, Manbij to Afrin, it would cost 100 times. 600 tanks? No way. We cannot just say "casualties are expected we should get used to it". Just no.

We are using Syrian Army tactics. They also send tanks with soldiers, then their tanks destroyed. After their tanks destroyed, they send airforce to hit enemy targets. Does it work? Yes, they advance. But very costly. We need to use optical searching vehicles and Airforce more effeciently.

Our army seems to be underestimating the importance of attack helicopters in the sky. They spot everyone too easily and they are pretty untouchable against militants like ISIS and PKK. You use helis in this kind of conflicts.

Tanks are not really handful for anything too actually, other than fighting against other tanks and armored vehicles.


Bize Kobra'nın tank versiyonu gerek, tabi daha büyük kalibreli makineliler ve on binlerce mermi kapasitesine sahip olmalı. Şehir savaşlarında önemli olan unsurlar onlar. He sonra bide üzerlerine AKKOR ekle bunlar tam savaş makinesi olur.

 

[Aero]

Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy watching Turkish soldiers die in Syria. But it's a forgone conclusion that if Ankara marches on dense urban environments like Al Bab/Menbin/Raqqa with only armor and no commando or SF support (FSA militiamen are only useful to a certain point) then there will be casualities

I fully agree, I personally don't like when soldiers of any country die fighting fanatic & suicide bombers.
As Turkey already done a lot for FSA they should bear some more burden against IS instead of relying on Turkish Army alone.
Turkey should give older M60 to FSA and themselves should use Leopard 2, I know FSA casualties will be very much but it is Syria being cleaned of IS so they should bear some burden.

I am sure as T90A survived TOW in Feb 2016, Leopard 2 will fare very good against most ATGMs, so Turkish Army should use them only for safety of personnels.

 

[RAMPAGE]

The operation should obviously be spearheaded by TuAF. It is, isn't it?

 

[zestokryl]

You been funny, insisting with optical search vehicles

That reminds me of german movie about Hitler last days, when soviet army starts shelling some nearby point. And he yells , over the telephone demanding from luftwaffe, to neutralize russian artillery

As if, earth surface is plane board with no vegetation or anything. ATGM teams are highly mobile, can use camouflage, they can crawl and drag their missiles and emerge, where you last expect them

Drones and helicopters, can hover over the scene, but they can hardly keep doing that 24/7. Only solutions are engineering APS or moving tanks, to the positions where they are safe from enemy observers, till they are assigned to carry out some active support maneuvers and not just standing by for hours waiting for theirs missile

 

[SouI]

Look at this idiocy.. 3.5 km away.. This kind of things should not be happening, especially from that far away.. If we had an ATAK in the sky there, that group of terrorists would have been pounded before they even got to that spot.


I for one call this noobness of our military.

As if, earth surface is plane board with no vegetation or anything. ATGM teams are highly mobile, can use camouflage, they can crawl and drag their missiles and emerge, where you last expect them

That is why we need helis or else we will lose hundreds more tanks of ours for absolutely no reason.


---------


A guy wrote this:

"You almost never see a Syrian tank burn out like that from a turret hit any more, i feel like the Syrians learned not to store rounds in the storage compartment in the turret bc of the dangers posed by ATGMs. Turkey might need to take a lesson from them."

Does his opinion have any legitimacy?

 

[T-123456]

The operation should obviously be spearheaded by TuAF. It is, isn't it?

Its not,only supporting role,thats why no ''back up'' by helicopters/drones and fighter jets.
If they did this to play an active role using the tank losses,its a stupid reasoning and they just dont care for the soldiers lives.

"You almost never see a Syrian tank burn out like that from a turret hit any more, i feel like the Syrians learned not to store rounds in the storage compartment in the turret bc of the dangers posed by ATGMs. Turkey might need to take a lesson from them."

Does his opinion have any legitimacy?

@Penguin ?

 

[bsruzm]

Allah şehadetlerini kabul etsin...

 

[zestokryl]

That is why we need helis or else we will lose hundreds more tanks of ours for absolutely no reason.

Not just attack helis, but also desirably, small helli drone with cheap piston engine, capable of hovering over the scene, at least an hour

But, in regard of air support, it has limitations. Time for mainstance, flying to the battlefield and back, imperfectness of existing sensors ...

In the past almost only AT weapon was AT gun, which was difficult to hide, along with the defensive line. Today insurgency does not have any defense line often. They just need few ATGM teams , snipers, IED, here and there, rendering an offensive of conventional army a mess

 

[Glass]

how many atgm does ISIS have?

 

[Baybars Han]

We're already going to apply AKKOR on Altay tanks so maybe we should buy Trophy from Israel for our Leo 2 and Sabra tanks as a stop gap measure.

lol - brother what world are you living in?

 

[SouI]

We're already going to apply AKKOR on Altay tanks so maybe we should buy Trophy from Israel for our Leo 2 and Sabra tanks as a stop gap measure.

We should have done it long ago!

 

[Baybars Han]

I fully agree, I personally don't like when soldiers of any country die fighting fanatic & suicide bombers.
As Turkey already done a lot for FSA they should bear some more burden against IS instead of relying on Turkish Army alone.
Turkey should give older M60 to FSA and themselves should use Leopard 2, I know FSA casualties will be very much but it is Syria being cleaned of IS so they should bear some burden.

I am sure as T90A survived TOW in Feb 2016, Leopard 2 will fare very good against most ATGMs, so Turkish Army should use them only for safety of personnels.

That totally depends on where the tank is hit. I'm sure leopard will do much better than junk m60's but even the most latest tank without APS can be destroyed by very advanced and powerful atgm. Also you cant keep drone searching everywhere its impossible, that is a massive area. A man with an atgm hiding somewhere fires it and then quickly runs somewhere else. The distance is also over a few km. That is not such a short distance.

The biggest problem is the tanks. I doubt m60 tanks have much protection against these atgm's, there armours are weak.

how many atgm does ISIS have?

im sure hundreds if not thousands they captured from iraq army bases and syria.

 

[f1000n]

how many atgm does ISIS have?

ATGM for over 90% are from SAA/FSA stockpiles and FSA when they used to share arms right until 2013. Iraq only acquired ATGW (Kornet-E) from Russia after 2012, small numbers.

Look at this idiocy.. 3.5 km away.. This kind of things should not be happening, especially from that far away.. If we had an ATAK in the sky there, that group of terrorists would have been pounded before they even got to that spot.


I for one call this noobness of our military.


That is why we need helis or else we will lose hundreds more tanks of ours for absolutely no reason.

People of nations with armies that aren't actively fighting a large war easily claim how skilled they are right until they go to war with a force that isn't rag tag (such as IS), then it turns out they aren't that special. That's the case here which some people are not able to accept with all their pride.

 

[OldTwilight]

4-6 tanks in only 2 week ?! Its not bad for battkelefield like Syria but While you are facing more simplified situation , You are not doing better than SAA or Iraq Army and our military advisers in Syria !!

Anyway , these are nature of ATGMs , these weapons were developed to halt Soviet Amy or USA army armored divisions advance and bleed them and they are so damn successful at it .....

 

[trajanus]

4-6 tanks in only 2 week ?! Its not bad for Syria but While you are facing more simplified situation , You are not doing better than SAA or Iraq Army and our military advisers in Syria !!

Anyway , these are nature of ATGMs , these weapons were developed to halt Soviet Amy or USA army armored divisions advance and bleed them and they are so damn successful at it .....

Helo!

How many iranian general die in Syria ?4-6?