Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[OguzSenturk]

I think we lost 3 M60-T so far. I cannot understand how we cant determine enemy ATGM team that 200m away from tank. Really? No consistent UAV missions next to tanks, no optical watching systems, we use nothing. Just put some tanks on the hill for enemy to blow up!

 

[Yellow-place]

I think we lost 3 M60-T so far. I cannot understand how we cant determine enemy ATGM team that 200m away from tank. Really? No consistent UAV missions next to tanks, no optical watching systems, we use nothing. Just put some tanks on the hill for enemy to blow up!

You cant use an ATGM from 200m. They are a few kilometers away, not easy to determine.

 

[OguzSenturk]

Look at last IS video that they released, they don't seem that far away

 

[Aero]

I think we lost 3 M60-T so far. I cannot understand how we cant determine enemy ATGM team that 200m away from tank. Really? No consistent UAV missions next to tanks, no optical watching systems, we use nothing. Just put some tanks on the hill for enemy to blow up!

Modern ATGM can be used on Tanks 3KM away so ATGM crews may be 2-3 km away while hitting tanks.
Problem is ATGM crews hide and only fire once and then changes position so even if UAVs used crews dug in buildings etc will be still harder to detect.

Look at last IS video that they released, they don't seem that far away

They may be 1-1.5 Km away as camera is zoomed (See the shake in camera)

https://twitter.com/x/status/774334765273010176

 

[bosanski vojnik]

all the props for Erdogan when it comes to economy.... but the security in country is catastrofic, and now this limited intervention basically sending sitting ducks in syria...nothing good can come out of this limited intervention

Which is why in previous posts I have advocated that Turkish Armed forces send in more troops to Syria or at least some of their most advanced equipment. In an intervention such as this one you need to be in it to win it. Use heavy rocket artillery in coordination with f-16s, firtinas on a mass scale to inflict heavy damage on opponent.

to minimize casualties on armoured vehicles from Daesh/PKK/YPG the Turkish army needs to stop relying on FSA and use their own special forces and advanced sniper teams to take out enemy commanders and anti tank units.

 

[-------]

Which is why in previous posts I have advocated that Turkish Armed forces send in more troops to Syria or at least some of their most advanced equipment. In an intervention such as this one you need to be in it to win it. Use heavy rocket artillery in coordination with f-16s, firtinas on a mass scale to inflict heavy damage on opponent.

to minimize casualties on armoured vehicles from Daesh/PKK/YPG the Turkish army needs to stop relying on FSA and use their own special forces and advanced sniper teams to take out enemy commanders and anti tank units.

Sending in more troops would increase casualties, not minimise them. M60T is one of the most advanced tanks in Turkish inventory. ISIS is losing land, these propaganda videos do not change that fact.

 

[Baybars Han]

ATGM is a threat to every single tank, be it Leopard 2a6, latest abram or whatever tank and i'm sure depending on the type of atgm it could destroy them too not to mention m60's are very old tanks, but if that was a leopard 2a4 i'm sure it would have caused alot of damaged if not same outcome. Active protection system is the only solution for tanks in this era to overcome atgm etc. For example in lebanon 2006 im sure Israel lost alot of Merkava's which is way more advanced than m60 and Im sure at the time merkava didnt have APS system. Altay needs to have akkor and it needs to work properly.

 

[CrimsonFury]

RIP to the heroes.
Saudi lost many Abrams (arguably one of the most modern and battle tested MBTs on earth) in Yemen to Irania made ATGM...in this region if you want to secure your national interests you have to be ready to bleed for it.

 

[Kutsanan]

Modern ATGM can be used on Tanks 3KM away so ATGM crews may be 2-3 km away while hitting tanks.
Problem is ATGM crews hide and only fire once and then changes position so even if UAVs used crews dug in buildings etc will be still harder to detect.


They may be 1-1.5 Km away as camera is zoomed (See the shake in camera)

https://twitter.com/x/status/774334765273010176

i am so sad about families of the fallen soldiers we can see the tank commander

we need Akkor asap basic as hell.

 

[Aero]

i am so sad about families of the fallen soldiers we can see the tank commander

we need Akkor asap basic as hell.

Well yes a modern MBT like Altay with Hard kill will fair much better than older tanks like M60.As T90A survived Tow attack (although sensors fried, Side damaged ) in Feb 2016, so Leopard 2 should be utilised in attacks as they stand much better chances.

Most importantly a coordinated attack with Air Force will result in much lesser casualties. TAF should provide close Air support to army,i haven't seen attack helicopters from turkish side.

Saudi lost many Abrams (arguably one of the most modern and battle tested MBTs on earth)

Saudi Abrams are stripped down version without depleted uranium layers, so can't be compared to actual American Abrams.

this region if you want to secure your national interests you have to be ready to bleed for it.

However with better coordination with TAF & close air support ,Turkish Army will bleed very less or none at all.
isn't that good?

 

[CanerKoseler]

In anyway, this is war and we should be ready to face its consequences. As long as we are in this conflict we will suffer casulities. This is unavoidable.

 

[CrimsonFury]

Well yes a modern MBT like Altay with Hard kill will fair much better than older tanks like M60.As T90A survived Tow attack (although sensors fried, Side damaged ) in Feb 2016, so Leopard 2 should be utilised in attacks as they stand much better chances.

Most importantly a coordinated attack with Air Force will result in much lesser casualties. TAF should provide close Air support to army,i haven't seen attack helicopters from turkish side.


Saudi Abrams are stripped down version without depleted uranium layers, so can't be compared to actual American Abrams.


However with better coordination with TAF & close air support ,Turkish Army will bleed very less or none at all.
isn't that good?

Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy watching Turkish soldiers die in Syria. But it's a forgone conclusion that if Ankara marches on dense urban environments like Al Bab/Menbin/Raqqa with only armor and no commando or SF support (FSA militiamen are only useful to a certain point) then there will be casualities

 

[OguzSenturk]

I still think that we could prevent at least half of those ATGM incidents. I don't see close air support or optical search vehicles. 6 of our tanks got hit, 2 of them are still working, 4 of them damaged seriously. We just entered few km. If we really want to clear all Raqqa to Tal Abyad, Ayn issa to Ayn Al-Arab, Manbij to Afrin, it would cost 100 times. 600 tanks? No way. We cannot just say "casualties are expected we should get used to it". Just no.

We are using Syrian Army tactics. They also send tanks with soldiers, then their tanks destroyed. After their tanks destroyed, they send airforce to hit enemy targets. Does it work? Yes, they advance. But very costly. We need to use optical searching vehicles and Airforce more effeciently.

 

[Tsenal]

We're already going to apply AKKOR on Altay tanks so maybe we should buy Trophy from Israel for our Leo 2 and Sabra tanks as a stop gap measure.

 

[Aero]

I still think that we could prevent at least half of those ATGM incidents. I don't see close air support or optical search vehicles. 6 of our tanks got hit, 2 of them are still working, 4 of them damaged seriously. We just entered few km. If we really want to clear all Raqqa to Tal Abyad, Ayn issa to Ayn Al-Arab, Manbij to Afrin, it would cost 100 times. 600 tanks? No way. We cannot just say "casualties are expected we should get used to it". Just no.

We are using Syrian Army tactics. They also send tanks with soldiers, then their tanks destroyed. After their tanks destroyed, they send airforce to hit enemy targets. Does it work? Yes, they advance. But very costly. We need to use optical searching vehicles and Airforce more effeciently.

A better coordination better Turkish Air Force and Army & intelligence against IS from US, Russia (if they agree to provide) will reduce casualties & equipment loss in significant amount. Following changes i think are needed

• Better intelligence on enemy positions and weapons
• Utilization of latest armor and weapons in Turkish inventory (mens vulnerable M60 must be kept away)
• Full close Air support for every operation
• FSA should be asked to take a bit more burden instead of completely relying on Turkish Troops
• Some agreement with US., Russia for intelligence sharing against IS (if possible)
• ATGM teams always ready to deal with VBIED threats (Main problem for every army fighting with fanatics)

if above mention points are implement i think a great effect will be visible there on ground.