Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[camel]

yes they all stole those names from the 1991 war. so did saudi with their decisive storm

 

[Jackal131]

Let me explain myself then ;

- we are using TANKs and IFVs alone.. not as units or teams. No recon vehicle went with them. No infantary or security units at their sides and backs. there is a field book for Armed vehicles, "little unit tactics".. commandos dont have to know that book.

-Yes , tank personel in tanks, but OKK headquarter commands all field.they pickes the targets. They have guessed, this is a little size commando movement, but it is partly true.. true for first 3 mounths. But 20 december was the date of change in field. And of course with aleppo agreement was the important date. Esad can say nothing our soldiers anymore.

-of course , i am aware of this is not a full size military action , we are there for support.. but that line has been passed in 20 december And after Aleppo agreement.

-when i am talking about logistic planning. I am not talking about a little commando teams' logistics or battalions logistics. You really no have knowledge i guess about this kind of military planning.. Today this operation is not a hybrid or proxy operation now. it is an "operative size military operation" now. It needs an operative headquarter, operative corp size logistics management, supply and support. (Tam tesekküllü bir kolordu karargahi ve baglı birlikleri gereklidir bu tür bir lojistik ve harekat yönetimi için. 30 kişilik ökk ökhu karargahı ile olacak iş değil.)

- for instance if you watch efes exercise last summer, there were just a bridge size operation and logistic centers. Multiply it with at least 4 or 5 times for firat kalkani.

-what i am talking about is a "corps headquarter nad command" (kolordu karargahı ve bağlı birliklerinin komutayı ele alması. Çünkü bu artık bir komando harekatı değil. Lokal bir savaş.)

- and a memory : when usa starts a move to iraq. Operations name was "desert SHIELD". In shield level, usa have send corps to war area and they have prepared and lined formations... when USA would have attacked the name of the operation has changed and became : desert storm..

-it was firat shield , if there is a level named firat storm, command must be in a ful capable headquarter and , army must use all that have.. not limited units...

It is some really good thought you are putting across but it is simply theoretical thought. What you speak of is how things should work according to books. But the real world is far different than books. However you think well and I like your ability to view the broad picture.

You are only lacking the fundemental understanding of how logistics works in the TSK. What you dont know is that we have a completely centralised structure. The only logistics personell not directly tied to logistics command are the OKK field logisticians but they still coordinate with logistics command if it is not an independent operation.

In the TSK, Every single logistics component regardless of whether its corp level, batallion level etc, is tied into and 100% answerable to logistics command, not their corp or batallion etc command. This means that the logistics of each combat formation is limited by the speed of the information and phyical flow to and back from logistics command. They cannot make independent decisions.

Regardless of the size, type, or dynamic of the operation, our logistics practices will remain the same. All logistics strategy and tactics are debated and decided on by logistics command, except in the case of OKK independent operations. ES is not an independent operation. So OKK logisticians in Syria are currently limited by the information flow between themselves and logistics command.

It is this centralised structure that makes us weaker than nations like Russia regarding logistics. We need a decentralised strucutre which improves lead times, risk mitigation, resilience, agility, and even eliminates process waste in operations. The only way we can form a decetralised logistics structure is to attain almost complete self reliance in defence industry. Our military understands it is logistically weak; it is well known by our allies and enemies that we are logistically weak; that is why OKK was tasked with unit based field logisticians to begin with. And that is also why we are seeking self reliance in defence production.

There is no point in comparing US operational logistics practices to ours. Their logistics capabilities are at a level we simply can never achieve in the current or near future climate.

Our military is and has been working on improving logistics for some time now, hopefully the mistakes made in recent months will speed up the improvement. EGE Ord. Kom. trialed independent battlegroup formations in 2009/10/11 at the same time the "Contracted Private" method was being trialled. It seemed fairly successful so I can only hope the battlegroup formations with decentralised logistics is also adopted across our whole military soon.

 

[mehmet75]

It is some really good thought you are putting across but it is simply theoretical thought. What you speak of is how things should work according to books. But the real world is far different than books. However you think well and I like your ability to view the broad picture.

You are only lacking the fundemental understanding of how logistics works in the TSK. What you dont know is that we have a completely centralised structure. The only logistics personell not directly tied to logistics command are the OKK field logisticians but they still coordinate with logistics command if it is not an independent operation.

In the TSK, Every single logistics component regardless of whether its corp level, batallion level etc, is tied into and 100% answerable to logistics command, not their corp or batallion etc command. This means that the logistics of each combat formation is limited by the speed of the information and phyical flow to and back from logistics command. They cannot make independent decisions.

Regardless of the size, type, or dynamic of the operation, our logistics practices will remain the same. All logistics strategy and tactics are debated and decided on by logistics command, except in the case of OKK independent operations. ES is not an independent operation. So OKK logisticians in Syria are currently limited by the information flow between themselves and logistics command.

It is this centralised structure that makes us weaker than nations like Russia regarding logistics. We need a decentralised strucutre which improves lead times, risk mitigation, resilience, agility, and even eliminates process waste in operations. The only way we can form a decetralised logistics structure is to attain almost complete self reliance in defence industry. Our military understands it is logistically weak; it is well known by our allies and enemies that we are logistically weak; that is why OKK was tasked with unit based field logisticians to begin with. And that is also why we are seeking self reliance in defence production.

There is no point in comparing US operational logistics practices to ours. Their logistics capabilities are at a level we simply can never achieve in the current or near future climate.

Our military is and has been working on improving logistics for some time now, hopefully the mistakes made in recent months will speed up the improvement. EGE Ord. Kom. trialed independent battlegroup formations in 2009/10/11 at the same time the "Contracted Private" method was being trialled. It seemed fairly successful so I can only hope the battlegroup formations with decentralised logistics is also adopted across our whole military soon.

I know and live what you are talking about.. and respect your problems and idea.

All off the realities you have written are for general problems of peace armies. And national domestic structure of armies.

But now , our boys are fighting in another country as you know. And there is no logistic links that we use to.

For this kind of situations we have "logistic management centers" . They would eatablish in war times for every sector and tie to corps headquarter. ( savaş durumunda lojistigi yerinde yönetmek için asgari sektörden sorumlu kolordu karargahına bağlı "lojistik yönetim merkezleri" diye karargah ve bağlı üniteleri mevcut. Hatta bunların taktik seviyedeki loj.des taburları, mymler ve d.des takimlari ile irtibatı için telsiz çevrimi ve data aktarımı için mebs komutanliginin mobil şeyleri de mevcut.velhasıl tüm imkanlarımızla savaşmadigimiz icin sahada muhariplerin fedakarligi ile ilerliyoruz. Yillarca pkk terorunde de bu hatayi yaptik. Ordununelinde her imkan var. Ama müşterek harekati yonetebilecek ellere sevk idare verilmedikce sahada goremeyecegiz.)

So, this local centers are answer to your question..

 

[Friendly]

I know and live what you are talking about

Do you mentioned "Levazim". Once a Turkish comrade told me that they are not respected and demotivated.

Maybe this could increase vision of you comrades. We do it professional and try to improve it consequent and steady.
Common logistics for Bundeswehr.

http://www.fueakbw.de/militaerische...grundlagen-streitkraeftegemeinsamer-logistik/

 

[Babur Han]

I think Problem will not only be Logistic, TLFC rely on outdatet Tanks like M-60T, M-60A3 and Leopard-IIA4 which are not designed for asymetric Warfare. The lack of CAS Aircraft, Attack Helicopters and Gunships like AC-130 also play an important Role. Euphrates Shield was not planned as an full Scale Millitary Operation, only to Support FSA with Artillery, Tanks, Airstrikes and Special Forces.

 

[Friendly]

only to Support

Sorry dude no offence. If it is as you write, you will fail.

 

[Jackal131]

I know and live what you are talking about.. and respect your problems and idea.

All off the realities you have written are for general problems of peace armies. And national domestic structure of armies.

But now , our boys are fighting in another country as you know. And there is no logistic links that we use to.

For this kind of situations we have "logistic management centers" . They would eatablish in war times for every sector and tie to corps headquarter. ( savaş durumunda lojistigi yerinde yönetmek için asgari sektörden sorumlu kolordu karargahına bağlı "lojistik yönetim merkezleri" diye karargah ve bağlı üniteleri mevcut. Hatta bunların taktik seviyedeki loj.des taburları, mymler ve d.des takimlari ile irtibatı için telsiz çevrimi ve data aktarımı için mebs komutanliginin mobil şeyleri de mevcut.velhasıl tüm imkanlarımızla savaşmadigimiz icin sahada muhariplerin fedakarligi ile ilerliyoruz. Yillarca pkk terorunde de bu hatayi yaptik. Ordununelinde her imkan var. Ama müşterek harekati yonetebilecek ellere sevk idare verilmedikce sahada goremeyecegiz.)

So, this local centers are answer to your question..

Actually what I speak of is exactly the opposite if what you believe. I described how our logistics system works in combat operations and wartime. The logistics management centres you speak of are combat transition hubs(both information and physical). They are not independent entitites and are not entitled to make decisions. They are simply a connection point between the the informaiton from their connected formations and the decision making process of logistic command.

They are simply set up and tasked with transitioning information and flows between command and the physical flows betwem formations. These centres are simply a "middle man".

That is the problem with our logistics system that I explained to you. In wartime, each combat transition hub or logistics management centre as you call them simply acts on the orders it recieves from logistics command. It does not matter how many combat formations are screaming for ammunition, or SLAT armor for their vehicles, or water, or cold weather gear. The transition centre simply relays the information back to logistics command who need to analyse if the capacity to provide them what they need is there. This is because we have a centralised inventory and supply structure.

Our military has tested and will move towards a battlegroup / wargroup structure in time. But until then what you are trying to explain is actually non existent. Not even a pen is moved without analysis at logistics command giving the green light to the combat transition hubs.

Until we move to the battlegroup / wargroup structure. Independent formations do not exist in our military. Neither in war time or peace.

 

[blackeyes90]

I am gonna be honest with everyone . I am started to think our Generals are sabotaging this operation on purpose. Why would you retreat from the village you captured ? dont gave me " oh beacuse of Isis Vbieds " we have complete air superiority !!!

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

''
Tarih; 8 Ocak 2017.

Saat; 21 suları.

Yer; El Bab'ın 10 kilometre güneyindeki Akterin köyü.

Olay; ÖSO içindeki bazı hain yapılanmaların IŞİD'e mühimmat ve patlayıcı madde sevkiyatı yaptığı, sattığı üzerine duyum alan, bölgede Türkmenler için savaş veren bir grup Türkmen harekete geçiyor. 2 TIR'a operasyon düzenleniyor. TIR'lar yakalanıyor. Gizli bölmelerinde ve yakıt tanklarının içindeki askeri mühimmat ve patlayıcı maddelere el konuyor.

-Başta gıda ve barınma gibi çok önemli lojistik desteklerdeki yetersizlikleri fotoğraflı belgeleriyle aktarmıştık. Genelkurmay Başkanlığı'ndaki kaynaklardan edindiğim bilgilere göre; Ocak ayı başından bu yana, El Bab'da görev yapan subay, astsubay ve uzman personelden 50 civarında istifa dilekçesi geldi.


-Kavga gürültü içinde, IŞİD'in eline esir düşen 2 kahraman Türk evladının şehit olduğunu açıkladınız. Peki bu şehitlerin cenazesini nasıl aldınız da Türkiye'ye getirdiniz diye!..

Ben sordum... Genelkurmaydaki kaynaklar dediler ki; "6 IŞİD'li teröristin ölüsü ile takas edildi."


''

the source/Kaynak: Milletvekilleri dövüşürken Mehmetçiğe yapılan kalleşlikler!.. - Ahmet TAKAN

http://www.yenicaggazetesi.com.tr/m...n-mehmetcige-yapilan-kalleslikler-41247yy.htm

Some events about the operation.

 

[Friendly]

we have complete air superiority !!!

No my friend. Only with Putins sake. But you are right at all.
You could throw a Tyre and it would roll to Damaskus

 

[blackeyes90]

Recent Isis video about Seflaniye Looks like they got one of our Zma-15

https://twitter.com/x/status/820354378179739648

we see a mosque or dome like structure in the 13 second mark of this video it means in seflaniye this was the engagement area.

 

[OguzSenturk]

No close air-support from Attack Helicopters => No live terrain and enemy position data => No fast-interference capacity => getting open for enemy ATGM and IED teams => Our armored vehicle upside down.

That is pathetic.

I am pretty sure that we do have at least one (1) chopper that can fire laser guided missile, i dont believe that if all heli pilots kicked out of the army due to Fetoş investigation. I do believe we have at least two (2) pilots and one (1) attack chopper.

The question is, why the f it does not fly above our troops when our troops moving forward blindly?

 

[what]

Could be one that was given to FSA

 

[Mucahit]

Guys we don't use that vehicle, they're mostly if not all the times operated by FSA.

 

[blackeyes90]

No close air-support from Attack Helicopters => No live terrain and enemy position data => No fast-interference capacity => getting open for enemy ATGM and IED teams => Our armored vehicle upside down.

That is pathetic.

I am pretty sure that we do have at least one (1) chopper that can fire laser guided missile, i dont believe that if all heli pilots kicked out of the army due to Fetoş investigation. I do believe we have at least two (2) pilots and one (1) attack chopper.

The question is, why the f it does not fly above our troops when our troops moving forward blindly?

forget atak choppers what about ah-1p and ah1-s or even ah1-w's ? they are perfect in this invirement with their guns and hellfire missiles !!! i believe they also have EW capibilities so why not use them ?