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Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

PKK sempatizanlarını Kürt olarak nitelendirirsek vatansever olanlara haksızlık etmiş oluruz arkadaşlar, ayrıca yabancıların bu PKK hareketini Kürt hareketi olarak görmek istediklerini unutmayalım, biz de Kürt dersek onların ağzıyla konuşmuş oluruz. O hainleri PYD supporters olarak nitelendirebiliriz mesela.
 
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Erdogan and entire Turkish leadership have been shortsighted. You should have seen this coming your way.

There is however no question that Obama is a certified idiot:
https://defence.pk/threads/clinton-blames-islamic-militants-rise-on-obama-policies.328490/
https://defence.pk/threads/why-obam...dis-but-did-nothing-for-syrian-sunnis.328624/

Once ISIS has risen, the US led West started looking for ways to neutralize ISIS without involving western ground troops (except for special forces which are acceptable by the public in these countries). The only reliable ground forces found in Iraq are Peshmerga and Shia militias, so alliance with Kurds and Iran became necessary. In Syria only YPG were found as reliable ground forces, so again an alliance with Kurds became necessary there.

Turkey looked the other way and did not want to get involved as the view was that this mess was created by the US starting with 2003 invasion of Iraq, which Turkey opposed. Turkish view was that let the US then clean up this mess they have created themselves. Problem is when you don't help your ally, they will get help from others who are your enemies and it will and inevitably have affected your national interest. I have predicted this:
https://defence.pk/threads/the-figh...ates-discussions.311209/page-162#post-7759208
https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-sends-a-message-to-ypg.405603/page-6#post-7826775
https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-sends-a-message-to-ypg.405603/page-6#post-7830284

The recent coup fiasco can be thought of as an attempt at getting rid of this foolish Turkish leadership and get someone who will be more accommodating of US/Western interest. Not that I am trying to justify Obama the idiot's actions, but saying that this could have been his thinking, if Gulen and his Hizmet were indeed CIA assets like many people claim.

But can Turkey turn away from the West? Please do not be emotional. I do not believe Turkey has a choice to leave the Western camp, at this point in time in history. Learn from your mistakes and make sure you do not repeat them again.

Obama is going to be out of the picture in a few months. Once Clinton is in place, you will have a better leadership at the steering wheel in the US. So be patient for a few months, do not do anything too rash which you will regret later.

Long term, you need to neutralize the Kurdish YPG/PKK threat. How do you do it? I mentioned it before in one of the posts above, with demographic change in Southeast Turkey, make them minority there by settling people who you trust (Central Asians, Azeri's, Muslim Russians etc.). Same thing must happen in Northern Iraq and Northern Syria, make them minority in their own region. For these to take place, integrity of these two states is a must. Both Iraq and Syria must stay whole and must not get divided, only then majority population of Arabs can reassert control in these regions over time (federal status for KRG or Rojava must be rejected) and make the demographic change possible over time. There are 450 million Arabs in the world with high fertility rate. It should not be hard to do once both countries are stabilized and any proposal for autonomous federal status for Kurdish regions turned down and eliminated with time.

Short term, the current good relations with Iran and Russia is a good move by Erdogan, to remove objection for the entry of Turkey in Syrian anti-ISIS fight. The biggest reason for rise of AQ, ISIS and other assorted groups of jihadi's is that no one is protecting Sunni Arabs in either Syria or Iraq, so jihadi's are touting themselves as the only group who can protect them. Turkey can back FSA, like its doing now and show itself as the best alternative for addressing Sunni Arab grievance. Turkey must build on this pilot model of FSA cooperation and expand quickly to increase the size and scope of this operation, but must make sure to exclude die hard Wahabi/Salafi's from this effort and of course work with Assad-Iran-Russia while doing this. When Turkey-FSA team attempts to eliminate ISIS and other jihadi's and take over the Sunni majority regions and cities in Syria, the mood of Assad and his Russian and Iranian backers will change as they might feel threatened by Turkish takeover. I think at that point a negotiated settlement can be reached where Turkey-FSA remains in Sunni majority regions as peace keeping force while Assad-Hezbollah backed by Russia and Iran remains in control of the rest of the area. Once peace is achieved some kind of political compromise has to be reached as it happened after the civil war in Lebanon, in an effort to keep the country together, but functionally there will be separate military control so that no majority or minority groups will be able to abuse another less powerful group.

If Turkey can successfully accomplish this in Syria then Iran and US/West may allow Turkish coordinated peace keeping forces to cooperate with Shia militia's in eliminating ISIS in Iraq. The US may support this Turkish move in Iraq, as there is concern about ethnic cleansing and rights violations of Sunni Arabs by Iran supported Shia militia's and Kurdish Peshmeraga. By participating in both Syria and Iraq and taking full active role in eliminating ISIS and jihadi's from these two theaters and thus stabilizing these two countries, I believe Turkey will gain trust of the West, Iran and Russia and it will then set the scene for the long term goal of demographic change I mentioned above, which will then result in crushing YPG/PKK dreams of a Kurdistan. The West needs their interest protected in this region, specially eliminating safe haven of Wahabi/Salafi jihadi's. If Turkey does its best to do its job and show results, then there is no reason for the West to depend on Turkey's enemy such as the YPG/PKK.

But the YPG-US relations are a reality now (35,000 reliable SDF/YPG ground troops), an unwelcome situation that could easily have been avoided, if Erdogan and Turkish leadership was smart enough and had more foresight earlier. So my personal opinion, Turkey should not aggravate the situation further by attacking and killing this SDF/YPG force, at least not at this point in time. You have the option to make them irrelevant by eliminating ISIS and other jihadi's as mentioned above. If they attack you however, then they can be removed without any repercussions. because that is in self defense.

So lets see if someone can take this message to Erdogan and Turkish leadership from here in pdf.
 
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Erdogan and entire Turkish leadership has been shortsighted. You should have seen this coming your way.

There is however no question that Obama is a certified idiot:
https://defence.pk/threads/clinton-blames-islamic-militants-rise-on-obama-policies.328490/
https://defence.pk/threads/why-obam...dis-but-did-nothing-for-syrian-sunnis.328624/

Once ISIS has risen, the US led West started looking for ways to neutralize ISIS without involving western ground troops (except for special forces which are acceptable by the public in these countries). The only reliable ground forces found in Iraq are Peshmerga and Shia militias, so alliance with Kurds and Iran became necessary. In Syria only YPG were found as reliable ground forces, so again an alliance with Kurds became necessary there.

Turkey looked the other way and did not want to get involved as the view was that this mess was created by the US starting with 2003 invasion of Iraq, which Turkey opposed. Turkish view was that let the US then clean up this mess they have created themselves. Problem is when you don't help your ally, they will get help from others who are your enemies and it will and inevitably have affected your national interest. I have predicted this:
https://defence.pk/threads/the-figh...ates-discussions.311209/page-162#post-7759208
https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-sends-a-message-to-ypg.405603/page-6#post-7826775
https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-sends-a-message-to-ypg.405603/page-6#post-7830284

The recent coup fiasco can be thought of as an attempt at getting rid of this foolish Turkish leadership and get someone who will be more accommodating of US/Western interest. Not that I am trying to justify Obama the idiot's actions, but saying that this could have been his thinking, if Gulen and his Hizmet were indeed CIA assets like many people claim.

But can Turkey turn away from the West? Please do not be emotional. I do not believe Turkey has a choice to leave the Western camp, at this point in time in history. Learn from your mistakes and make sure you do not repeat them again.

Obama is going to be out of the picture in a few months. Once Clinton is in place, you will have a better leadership at the steering wheel in the US. So be patient for a few months, do not do anything too rash which you will regret later.

Long term, you need to neutralize the Kurdish threat. How do you do it? I mentioned it before in one of the posts above, with demographic change in Southeast Turkey, make them minority there by settling people who you trust (Central Asians, Azeri's, Muslim Russians etc.). Same thing must happen in Northern Iraq and Northern Syria, make them minority in their own region. For these to take place, integrity of these two states is a must. Both Iraq and Syria must stay whole and must not get divided, only then majority population of Arabs can reassert control in these regions over time (federal status for KRG or Rojava must be rejected) and make the demographic change possible over time. There are 450 million Arabs in the world with high fertility rate. It should not be hard to do once both countries are stabilized and any proposal for autonomous federal status for Kurdish regions turned down and eliminated with time.

Short term, the current good relations with Iran and Russia is a good move by Erdogan, to remove objection for the entry of Turkey in Syrian anti-ISIS fight. The biggest reason for rise of AQ, ISIS and other assorted groups of jihadi's is that no one is protecting Sunni Arabs in either Syria or Iraq, so jihadi's are touting themselves as the only group who can protect them. Turkey can back FSA, like its doing now and show itself as the best alternative for addressing Sunni Arab grievance. Turkey must build on this pilot model of FSA cooperation and expand quickly to increase the size and scope of this operation, but must make sure to exclude die hard Wahabi/Salafi's from this effort and of course work with Assad-Iran-Russia while doing this. When Turkey-FSA team attempts to eliminate ISIS and other jihadi's and take over the Sunni majority regions and cities in Syria, the mood of Assad and his Russian and Iranian backers will change as they might feel threatened by Turkish takeover. I think at that point a negotiated settlement can be reached where Turkey-FSA remains in Sunni majority regions as peace keeping force while Assad-Hezbollah backed by Russia and Iran remains in control of the rest of the area. Once peace is achieved some kind of political compromise has to be reached as it happened after the civil war in Lebanon, in an effort to keep the country together, but functionally there will be separate military control so that no majority or minority groups will be able to abuse another less powerful group.

If Turkey can successfully accomplish this in Syria then Iran and US/West may allow Turkish coordinated peace keeping forces to cooperate with Shia militia's in eliminating ISIS in Iraq. The US may support this Turkish move in Iraq, as there is concern about ethnic cleansing and rights violations of Sunni Arabs by Iran supported Shia militia's and Kurdish Peshmeraga. By participating in both Syria and Iraq and taking full active role in eliminating ISIS and jihadi's from these two theaters and thus stabilizing these two countries, I believe Turkey will gain trust of the West, Iran and Russia and it will then set the scene for the long term goal of demographic change I mentioned above, which will then result in crushing Kurdish dreams of a Kurdistan. The West needs their interest protected in this region, specially eliminating safe haven of Wahabi/Salafi jihadi's. If Turkey does its best to do its job and show results, then there is no reason for the West to depend on Turkey's enemy such as the Kurds.

But the Kurdish-US relations are a reality now (35,000 reliable SDF/YPG ground troops), an unwelcome situation that could easily have been avoided, if Erdogan and Turkish leadership was smart enough and had more foresight earlier. So my personal opinion, Turkey should not aggravate the situation further by attacking and killing this SDF/YPG force, at least not at this point in time. You have the option to make them irrelevant by eliminating ISIS and other jihadi's as mentioned above. If they attack you however, then they can be removed without any repercussions. because that is in self defense.

So lets see if someone can take this message to Erdogan and Turkish leadership from here in pdf.
I have the feeling your analysis depends too much on Turkey's naive goodwill towards the US, which under Obama and Bush has done almost nothing but blunders, which btw were results of their lies regarding Iraq, in our direct neighborhood. Clinton's not gonna change much, i expect her to start off exaggeratedly energetic in an attempt to regain the trust of Turkish politicians and public, but I won't be surprised if some years later she too begins to tilt. This even might be her strategy to take Turkey away from Russia and Iran (on Syria) at first, which would be not good for us considering we can't keep approaching and ditching Russia as if we only know their door at difficult times, thus forcing ourselves to the US side again. Now is imo the time to seriously start diversifying and increasing military and political ties with Russia, Iran and China too. As a country located in a geopolitical advantageous position, we would do great injustice by not using the advantage of playing our cards in each direction, even more so in the future when the rest of the world develops.

The US' model for Turkey 'not too weak as it needs to serve as a NATO outpost, but not too strong to have an influential foreign policy and interfere in regional US interests' is simply not acceptable anymore as Turkey continues to develop, grow stronger and become more vocal regarding its own interests abroad. The ball is in the US' court; either respect Turkey too or don't whine if we go our own way.

Why is Turkey in the Western camp? Because of nato? I'm confident Turkey can already largely do without nato by now. The only big worry is that there are/will be projects with fellow nato members, so if we leave we would lose those projects. Anyway, leaving nato is not a simple decision that can be made overnight and it wont happen in the short-medium term. However, once we are in the position to leave the nato for good, then i don't see how we can't leave the 'Western camp'. NATO and an eventual EU membership would most probably only drag us down as Turkey in both cases will gradually contribute more than it can benefit once our economy and military increases more and more. This post is mostly off-topic, so i won't write or reply anymore.
 
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CrWyTDrWcAAfA4K.jpg


CrXYbnTXEAArAXu.jpg

FSA News ‏@FSAPlatform

Recent #FSA advances over last 3 days with TAF support as part of #EuphratesShield operation in NE #Aleppo province

d1fcc539ab074362bf59b3338ee990a1.png

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160902/1044901896/turkey-jarablus-operation.html?utm_source=https://t.co/1fEoQyKLU0&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=ccXV&utm_campaign=URL_shortening

Turkish army says Syrian village cleared of terrorists
Military says Free Syrian Army forces cleared village of Qunduriyah, near Aleppo, of terrorists
http://aa.com.tr/en/todays-headlines/turkish-army-says-syrian-village-cleared-of-terrorists/639998
 
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Guys dont generalise kurds.

We dont. Any member that insults or talk lesser of Turkish Kurds are automatically warned and the posts are deleted. The moderator of this section @cabatli_53 takes it very seriously. Dont confuse the posts involving PKK with Kurds please. Most Kurds are loyal citizens that deserve the same respect as any other Turkish citizen.
 
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I have the feeling your analysis depends too much on Turkey's naive goodwill towards the US, which under Obama and Bush has done almost nothing but blunders, which btw were results of their lies regarding Iraq, in our direct neighborhood. Clinton's not gonna change much, i expect her to start off exaggeratedly energetic in an attempt to regain the trust of Turkish politicians and public, but I won't be surprised if some years later she too begins to tilt. This even might be her strategy to take Turkey away from Russia and Iran (on Syria) at first, which would be not good for us considering we can't keep approaching and ditching Russia as if we only know their door at difficult times, thus forcing ourselves to the US side again. Now is imo the time to seriously start diversifying and increasing military and political ties with Russia, Iran and China too. As a country located in a geopolitical advantageous position, we would do great injustice by not using the advantage of playing our cards in each direction, even more so in the future when the rest of the world develops.

The US' model for Turkey 'not too weak as it needs to serve as a NATO outpost, but not too strong to have an influential foreign policy and interfere in regional US interests' is simply not acceptable anymore as Turkey continues to develop, grow stronger and become more vocal regarding its own interests abroad. The ball is in the US' court; either respect Turkey too or don't whine if we go our own way.

Why is Turkey in the Western camp? Because of nato? I'm confident Turkey can already largely do without nato by now. The only big worry is that there are/will be projects with fellow nato members, so if we leave we would lose those projects. Anyway, leaving nato is not a simple decision that can be made overnight and it wont happen in the short-medium term. However, once we are in the position to leave the nato for good, then i don't see how we can't leave the 'Western camp'. NATO and an eventual EU membership would most probably only drag us down as Turkey in both cases will gradually contribute more than it can benefit once our economy and military increases more and more. This post is mostly off-topic, so i won't write or reply anymore.

Excellent response.
 
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I have the feeling your analysis depends too much on Turkey's naive goodwill towards the US, which under Obama and Bush has done almost nothing but blunders, which btw were results of their lies regarding Iraq, in our direct neighborhood. Clinton's not gonna change much, i expect her to start off exaggeratedly energetic in an attempt to regain the trust of Turkish politicians and public, but I won't be surprised if some years later she too begins to tilt. This even might be her strategy to take Turkey away from Russia and Iran (on Syria) at first, which would be not good for us considering we can't keep approaching and ditching Russia as if we only know their door at difficult times, thus forcing ourselves to the US side again. Now is imo the time to seriously start diversifying and increasing military and political ties with Russia, Iran and China too. As a country located in a geopolitical advantageous position, we would do great injustice by not using the advantage of playing our cards in each direction, even more so in the future when the rest of the world develops.

The US' model for Turkey 'not too weak as it needs to serve as a NATO outpost, but not too strong to have an influential foreign policy and interfere in regional US interests' is simply not acceptable anymore as Turkey continues to develop, grow stronger and become more vocal regarding its own interests abroad. The ball is in the US' court; either respect Turkey too or don't whine if we go our own way.

Why is Turkey in the Western camp? Because of nato? I'm confident Turkey can already largely do without nato by now. The only big worry is that there are/will be projects with fellow nato members, so if we leave we would lose those projects. Anyway, leaving nato is not a simple decision that can be made overnight and it wont happen in the short-medium term. However, once we are in the position to leave the nato for good, then i don't see how we can't leave the 'Western camp'. NATO and an eventual EU membership would most probably only drag us down as Turkey in both cases will gradually contribute more than it can benefit once our economy and military increases more and more. This post is mostly off-topic, so i won't write or reply anymore.
I like your brain and analysis. Much better than third rate international newspaper crap journalists
 
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You look at the situation as if it is one case, but the problem is; ypg and pkk are directly related to each other. All that support the West and major EU countries) gives to the ypg, will be used by the ypg/pkk against Turkey. It is extremely shortsighted of the West to continue to prop up the ypg and allow them to capture that much without any consideration. In fact, the West knows very well what it is doing despite Turkey's objection, but they have their agenda for ypg, hence the Turkish intervention.

Looking at the ypg's performance during the last week, they are just as miserable as the fsa, isis or even Assad's forces as long as they don't have the backing of a serious air force. ypg, crumbled in the face of the fsa and Turkish army.

Iran and Assad are foremost focused on fighting the fsa, then isis and co, then ypg. fsa are closest to Assad and thus pose a direct threat to Damascus (was it not for Russian and Iranian intervention to a lesser degree).
ypg in the north forms no threat for Assad right now, but that doesn't mean Assad and Iran will allow the ypg/pkk to get stronger. Furthermore, Im sure they counted on Turkey to intervene, because they knew Turkey would not allow the ypg to claim more land in the north under the disguise of fighting isis.

Turkey in the past clearly said that a safe-zone was needed, the US didn't listen while France supported it, now we see that the US tried to trick us by sending the SDF (majority ypg) into the west of the Euphrates, exactly where Turkey always wanted to create a safe-zone with its allies. No to Turkey's request to make a safe-zone and eliminate isis there (there was no SDF or ypg in the west of the Euphrates back then), but yes to ypg taking over this region according to the US? nope, we won't fall for that game.

Because the ypg is a bigger threat than isis. Both need to go, but ypg first if a priority must be made. The fact that the US and some EU countries cry so much about the ypg clearly shows that Turkey hit a nerve. Instead of crying, why don't they come and work together with a NATO ally in order to remove isis AND ypg, which is clearly tied to the pkk, which is on the terror list of the EU and US? :sniper:The West's reluctance to do so is yet another indication of their hidden agenda :nono: Turkey and the regional countries won't allow the US to create a proxy/vassal state that easily :-)

Huh?? You think we didn't have a reason to back off from a no fly zone over Syria for a good reason? I don't understand how some of you get so emotional to the point of making such claims about U.S/WESTERN evil plans/hidden agenda in not wanting to impose a no fly zone over Syria. You know we wanted to do that before right? It due to many reasons(political, public opinion, risk of a wider conflict etc ) we stopped short from doing so.

There are serious implications for imposing such a no fly zone. One of which could have lead to a clash between U.S/U.K/French fighter jets/missile systems and Russia, you know what all that entails, bringing even more tension and chaos in the region. It would have also meant deploying some sort of ground troops ti support the operation(something U.S/U.K public is strongly against) and shooting down Assads/Syrian fighters probably bringing his regime down(since they rely alot of airpower(barel bombings) , giving ISIS even more ground.
I do believe we made a mistake though, we should have intervened long ago and toppled Assad , it would have been better than letting things play out for so long and grinding the war to a slow destructive endless circle. Funny thing is even if we did that as Turkey and other middle eastern countries were calling on western powers to do, then you people would have been the first to criticise us again when things don't go according to plan after he is toppled lol. We are damned if we intervene damned if we don't as alway. Lose -lose situation for us. Lol

Moreover, Britain(reluctantly),France and GERMANY(Merkel) supported the idea of a no fly zone over Syria, but OBAMA(the diplomat) was cautious about such an idea fearing it will drag U.S forces into yet another war. Our parliament voting against a no fly zone that year also convinced the U.S not to get involved. Else Assad will be history today.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/turkey-safe-zone-syria-refugees-russian-airstrikes
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10890980


Plus, you said YPG is a far bigger threat for your people than ISIS, which many people knew for a long time now. However to the world and almost every other power involved in Syria be it Iran,(and it's Shias proxies Hezbollah etc) Russia, U.S, U.K, France ISIS is a far bigger threat. Reason all these powers have been(and are still) focusing on fighting ISIS and other Islamic extremists groups.
Why else do you think even Russia never targets the Kurds in its bombings campaigns? Same with Iran never fighting the YPG.
Turkish intervention won't change this much(apart from some symbolic gestures), as each of these powers have their own interests/objectives.

Best solution is to cooperate with western powers and get rid of ISIS FIRST, then it will give us little reason to support the Kurds. That way a compromise/negotiate settlement can be agreed whereby Syrian Kurds will probably remain in their stronghold and sign an agreement which can be monitored by western forces and Turkey not to offer any support to the PKK. That will be the best outcome.

As for the whole claim Turkey should leave NATO/western camp. I can only :disagree:
Do they even know the benefits their country gets from being part of our block?:undecided: doors are wide open though. Any country is free to leave NATO if they are not happy. Nobody is forcing anyone. :thank_you2:
 
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Huh?? You think we didn't have a reason to back off from a no fly zone over Syria for a good reason? I don't understand how some of you get so emotional to the point of making such claims about U.S/WESTERN evil plans/hidden agenda in not wanting to impose a no fly zone over Syria. You know we wanted to do that before right? It due to many reasons(political, public opinion, risk of a wider conflict etc ) we stopped short from doing so.

There are serious implications for imposing such a no fly zone. One of which could have lead to a clash between U.S/U.K/French fighter jets/missile systems and Russia, you know what all that entails, bringing even more tension and chaos in the region. It would have also meant deploying some sort of ground troops ti support the operation(something U.S/U.K public is strongly against) and shooting down Assads/Syrian fighters probably bringing his regime down(since they rely alot of airpower(barel bombings) , giving ISIS even more ground.
I do believe we made a mistake though, we should have intervened long ago and toppled Assad , it would have been better than letting things play out for so long and grinding the war to a slow destructive endless circle. Funny thing is even if we did that as Turkey and other middle eastern countries were calling on western powers to do, then you people would have been the first to criticise us again when things don't go according to plan after he is toppled lol. We are damned if we intervene dned if we don't. Love -lose situation. Lol

Moreover, Britain(reluctantly),France and GERMANY(Merkel) supported the idea of a no fly zone over Syria, but OBAMA(the diplomat) was cautious about such an idea fearing it will drag U.S forces into yet another war. Our parliament voting against a no fly zone that year also convinced the U.S not to get involved. Else Assad will be history today.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/turkey-safe-zone-syria-refugees-russian-airstrikes
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10890980


Plus, you said YPG is a far bigger threat for your people than ISIS, which many people knew for a long time now. However to the world and almost every other power involved in Syria be it Iran,(and it's Shias proxies Hezbollah etc) Russia, U.S, U.K, France ISIS is a far bigger threat. Reason all these powers have been(and are still) focusing on fighting ISIS and other Islamic extremists groups.
Why else do you think even Russia never targets the Kurds in its bombings campaigns? Same with Iran never fighting the YPG.
Turkish intervention won't change this much(apart from some symbolic gestures), as each of this powers have their own interests.

Best solution is to cooperate with western powers and get rid of ISIS FIRST, then it will give us little reason to support the Kurds. That way a compromise/negotiate settlement can be agreed whereby Syrian Kurds will probably remain in their stronghold and sign an agreement which can be monitored by western forces and Turkey not to offer any support to the PKK. That will be the best outcome.

As for the whole claim Turkey should leave NATO/western camp. I can only :disagree:
Do they even know the benefits their country gets from being part of our block?:undecided: doors are open though any country is free to leave NATO if they are not happy. Nobody is forcing anyone. :thank_you2:

So you support the splitting up of syria?

In my opinion first we should create a belt in our borders that removes isis then focus on manbij and clear ypg and then totally clear ypg from east of Firat too.
 
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So you support the splitting up of syria?

In my opinion first we should create a belt in our borders that removes isis then focus on manbij and clear ypg and then totally clear ypg from east of Firat too.
Well we have to be realistic. The Kurds enjoy strong support in their stronghold . Just like the Sunnis enjoy strong support in their strong hold and Assad enjoys strong support in his own southern stronghold . Any battle between external forces venturing into each other territory/stronghold all be hard fougt long and protracted one. It's precisely for this reason the Syrian war has been(and will keep ) dragging on.

Like some analysts right looking out, itss also a similar dilemma western powers U.S, U.K and France are facing. We could supply the Syrian rebels lightly and then be accused of not doing enough. We could throw every weapon we got at the rebels and still fail in our minimal goal of forcing President Basshar al-Assad and his Russian(and other) backers into negotiations(with the objective of him giving up power). So its a conflict that will go on for years to come unfortunately, until foreign and regional powers involved come to some sort of agreement.
Until then the chaos will continue and with it ISIS and other groups fighting them.
 
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Huh?? You think we didn't have a reason to back off from a no fly zone over Syria for a good reason? I don't understand how some of you get so emotional to the point of making such claims about U.S/WESTERN evil plans/hidden agenda in not wanting to impose a no fly zone over Syria. You know we wanted to do that before right? It due to many reasons(political, public opinion, risk of a wider conflict etc ) we stopped short from doing so.

There are serious implications for imposing such a no fly zone. One of which could have lead to a clash between U.S/U.K/French fighter jets/missile systems and Russia, you know what all that entails, bringing even more tension and chaos in the region. It would have also meant deploying some sort of ground troops ti support the operation(something U.S/U.K public is strongly against) and shooting down Assads/Syrian fighters probably bringing his regime down(since they rely alot of airpower(barel bombings) , giving ISIS even more ground.
I do believe we made a mistake though, we should have intervened long ago and toppled Assad , it would have been better than letting things play out for so long and grinding the war to a slow destructive endless circle. Funny thing is even if we did that as Turkey and other middle eastern countries were calling on western powers to do, then you people would have been the first to criticise us again when things don't go according to plan after he is toppled lol. We are damned if we intervene dned if we don't. Love -lose situation. Lol

Moreover, Britain(reluctantly),France and GERMANY(Merkel) supported the idea of a no fly zone over Syria, but OBAMA(the diplomat) was cautious about such an idea fearing it will drag U.S forces into yet another war. Our parliament voting against a no fly zone that year also convinced the U.S not to get involved. Else Assad will be history today.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/turkey-safe-zone-syria-refugees-russian-airstrikes
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10890980


Plus, you said YPG is a far bigger threat for your people than ISIS, which many people knew for a long time now. However to the world and almost every other power involved in Syria be it Iran,(and it's Shias proxies Hezbollah etc) Russia, U.S, U.K, France ISIS is a far bigger threat. Reason all these powers have been(and are still) focusing on fighting ISIS and other Islamic extremists groups.
Why else do you think even Russia never targets the Kurds in its bombings campaigns? Same with Iran never fighting the YPG.
Turkish intervention won't change this much(apart from some symbolic gestures), as each of this powers have their own interests.

Best solution is to cooperate with western powers and get rid of ISIS FIRST, then it will give us little reason to support the Kurds. That way a compromise/negotiate settlement can be agreed whereby Syrian Kurds will probably remain in their stronghold and sign an agreement which can be monitored by western forces and Turkey not to offer any support to the PKK. That will be the best outcome.

As for the whole claim Turkey should leave NATO/western camp. I can only :disagree:
Do they even know the benefits their country gets from being part of our block?:undecided: doors are open though any country is free to leave NATO if they are not happy. Nobody is forcing anyone. :thank_you2:
And you are naive to believe that the US would just drop the ypg after isis is gone and that ypg will obediently restore all those lands back to Assad or anyone else that somehow gets elected. It's not for nothing that Turkey intervenes in order to do what is necessary to eliminate isis on the border and block ypg from connecting its territories. Yes, we have very good reasons to believe the US is trying to play a game in Syria under the disguise of fighting isis.

So basically you briefly summed up what led Turkey to intervene on its own; our allies' indecisiveness. Hence Turkey decided that it had to take matters into its own hands due to the deliberate or not indecisive/unhelpful allies.

What you believe to be a mistake, is what we find to be a part of the US' game. By stalling and delaying swift and hard action against Assad and isis, the US is trying to win time for ypg to gain more land and make the most of it while isis is around. Without isis the ypg has no legitimacy to keep conquering land and kick out non-Kurds from the conquered areas by accusing them of supporting isis. Once all puzzle pieces fall into place in Syria, Baghdadi would be found and 'dumped into a sea' by the US, isis would be over and ypg would be promised recognition for their hard work against isis by the VERY SAME US and some EU countries (mark my words) :D You really think we are not aware of the famous divide and conquer strategy that was used a lot by colonial imperialists? In the beginning we considered many theories to be conspiracy, but after so many years and the US' moves in Syria, conspiracy theories have turned out to be rather true than false :)

Obama the diplomat? More like the clown for obvious reasons.

What all the other countries find to be important is not important in the slightest for our country. ypg/pkk is the closest threat to our country than isis.
Turkish intervention has changed a lot, ypg/pkk can wave goodbye to connecting their territories in north Syria, thus their grand ambition of finally connecting such a corridor with the sea has also fallen into the water (;)) Check the flag of SDF, which is overwhelmingly made up by ypg, it includes our Hatay province too. It's VERY VERY clear to us (that's the most important thing, it doesn't matter if you or other foreigners grasp the danger or not) that the ypg and foremost the US in the end wanted to see a ypg controlled strip between Turkey and Syria.

The best Turkey can do right now is teaming up with Russia (thus indirectly with Assad too), clear the ypg and stimulate together with Russia a solution through negotiations between Assad and the FSA. Relying on the US and EU countries will do nothing for our interests. I believe such a thing will happen considering our prime minister saying some weeks ago that we shouldn't be surprised if there will be major developments regarding Syria in the following 6 months. Add to that the fact that Turkish govt has made relatively softening remarks regarding Assad and it becomes clear that there is a good chance that there is something happening between the Turkish govt and Assad through Russia.

Don't look at Turkey and NATO ties from a short term perspective. It's true that Turkey will not leave NATO due to some reasons (e.g. projects involved with other NATO members and not good and truly reliable relationship with Russia and China yet), but i won't be surprised if Turkey decides to leave some decades later. We shall see, but one thing won't change; trust in the US is gone (due to ypg, but also very likely US/CIA finger in the 'coup' attempt through Gulenists) and this shall impact the future politics of Turkey.
 
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I do believe we made a mistake though, we should have intervened long ago and toppled Assad , it would have been better than letting things play out for so long and grinding the war to a slow destructive endless circle. Funny thing is even if we did that as Turkey and other middle eastern countries were calling on western powers to do, then you people would have been the first to criticise us again when things don't go according to plan after he is toppled lol. We are damned if we intervene damned if we don't as alway. Lose -lose situation for us. Lol
If the west had intervened a couple of years ago when Obama called for the red lines,there wouldnt be an ISIS to fight and no-one would have cirtisized the west for it,so the ''lose-lose'' part is bs.
This is all on Obama,the worst president the US has ever had.
 
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