Turkish Naval Programs

[Hurshid Celebi]

Very good explanation, thank you for so much effort.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Guys any news about LST ?...

I think 1st ship will enter inventory in 1st quarter of 2018... 2nd ship in 2nd half of 2018...

Steel cutting date is May 2014...

Anadolu Den. İnş. Kız. San ve Tic. A.Ş. | Furstrans Grup | LCT | LST | Tersane

Here it says after construction begins 1st ship will be delivered after 44 months and 2nd one is after 52 months....

And i see nothing here...

@isoo dude do you have any info regarding LST project? Also can you enlighten us a bit about construction progress of a ship... I don't know if construction road map of all ships are same... I think first they build blocks of the ship inside hangar like buildings then they combine them at the sea side, am i right ? Also can you try to divide time line of each main application ? For example... Preparing steel parts 2/10 of construction time... Finishing blocks takes 3/10... Combining blocks take 2/10... Placing systems(propulsion, weapons etc.) takes 2/10 and tests take 1/10 of construction time line... Sure it can change according to the characteristic of ships but can you tell us about naval ships(ok, there are different naval ships too )

Here i found MSI magazine's 2013 May issue from ADİK's website...

(delete red question marks from the link...)

http://www.?adik.com?tr/haber/Dcmnt114_a1_.pdf

Here some photos i captured from this pdf...

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TF-2000 will be the next on the model testing,it will be 2 years later as expected , design will be finalized in 3 years and will be building right after milgem-G's.

Sorry, i couldn't understand TF-2000 part... From today how many years later construction of TF-2000 will begin ?

 

[ANMDT]

Guys any news about LST ?...

I think 1st ship will enter inventory in 1st quarter of 2018... 2nd ship in 2nd half of 2018...

Steel cutting date is May 2014...

Anadolu Den. İnş. Kız. San ve Tic. A.Ş. | Furstrans Grup | LCT | LST | Tersane

Here it says after construction begins 1st ship will be delivered after 44 months and 2nd one is after 52 months....

View attachment 237043

And i see nothing here...

View attachment 237044

@isoo dude do you have any info regarding LST project? Also can you enlighten us a bit about construction progress of a ship... I don't know if construction road map of all ships are same... I think first they build blocks of the ship inside hangar like buildings then they combine them at the sea side, am i right ? Also can you try to divide time line of each main application ? For example... Preparing steel parts 2/10 of construction time... Finishing blocks takes 3/10... Combining blocks take 2/10... Placing systems(propulsion, weapons etc.) takes 2/10 and tests take 1/10 of construction time line... Sure it can change according to the characteristic of ships but can you tell us about naval ships(ok, there are different naval ships too )

Here i found MSI magazine's 2013 May issue from ADİK's website...

(delete red question marks from the link...)

http://www.?adik.com?tr/haber/Dcmnt114_a1_.pdf

Here some photos i captured from this pdf...

View attachment 237046
View attachment 237047 View attachment 237048 View attachment 237049 View attachment 237050View attachment 237045

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Sorry, i couldn't understand TF-2000 part... From today how many years later construction of TF-2000 will begin ?

The location is wrong, your map points somewhere between RMK and SEDEF , which doesnt exist. I cant see many details related to LST in here the time of photo capture might be long time really. I think we can see block of LST next to LST on the slipway which is about to be lifted and erected.

About construction progress its hard to give exact fraction , but major time is separated for tests and system integration rather than steel work and block preparing, mounting up. To give an example a commercial ship can be delivered in 11 months and in steel work they are 4 times of LST due to size. so basically 3/10 for total steel work , 2/10 installation of subsystems 5/10 for integration of systems and total tests (i can remember exact numbers but Coast Guards in RMK marine sailed to 60-80 tests with issues or ove 200 tests.)

@xxxKULxxx i explained why we cant simply give fractions it will make no sense because the process isnt like a chain, but its more like a tree. In fact the diagram is complicated and each sections have more detailed sub process, but i prepared the simpliest one with rough distribution.

Here illustrations are;
Protoype timeline , NOTE! the timeline above is scaled down to 12 unit, each one may refer to a scale up depends on project. Also the fractions are approximate and not exact.
There is one ship ;prototype case , there will be only a ship to build eventhough there is multiple slipways.

Scenario 1 , NOTE! the timeline above is scaled down to 12 unit, each one may refer to a scale up depends on project. Also the fractions are approximate and not exact.
There 2 ships to be build but shipyard got one slipway hold , So timeline will be shifted especially on slipway time.

Scenario 2 , NOTE! the timeline above is scaled down to 12 unit, each one may refer to a scale up depends on project. Also the fractions are approximate and not exact.
There 2 ships to be build but shipyard got 2 slipway hold , So timeline will be compressed around the spent on slipway their launchs will have slight time difference, both might be accepted due to experience gained and applied in 2nd ship ,time spent on 2nd ship will shorten.

Here is the picture of map, it "seems" to be LST because picture is from 1-1.5 years ago

About TF2000 , as i hope it will be in model testing in 2 years , and after those test we can say there is 1-1.5 year to begin construction.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

LST , against whom. Greece ? We should have an other Vision. DETTERENCE. Even if we occupy our Islands back, can we populate them ? Never happened and can never happen.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

View attachment 237080
The location is wrong, your map points somewhere between RMK and SEDEF , which doesnt exist. I can see anything related to LST in here the time of photo capture might be long time really. I think we can see block of LST next to LST on the slipway which is about to be lifted and erected.

About construction progress its hard to give exact fraction , but major time is separated for tests and system integration rather than steel work and block preparing, mounting up. To give an example a commercial ship can be delivered in 11 months and in steel work they are 4 times of LST due to size. so basically 3/10 for total steel work , 2/10 installation of subsystems 5/10 for integration of systems and total tests (i can remember exact numbers but Coast Guards in RMK marin sailed to 60-80 tests with issues or ove 200 tests.)


About TF2000 , as i hope it will be in model testing in 2 years , and after those test we can say there is 1-1.5 year to begin construction.

Thanks... I really appreciate you... You answer all of our questions with patience even with details...

 

[xxxKULxxx]

View attachment 237080
The location is wrong, your map points somewhere between RMK and SEDEF , which doesnt exist. I cant see many details related to LST in here the time of photo capture might be long time really. I think we can see block of LST next to LST on the slipway which is about to be lifted and erected.

About construction progress its hard to give exact fraction , but major time is separated for tests and system integration rather than steel work and block preparing, mounting up. To give an example a commercial ship can be delivered in 11 months and in steel work they are 4 times of LST due to size. so basically 3/10 for total steel work , 2/10 installation of subsystems 5/10 for integration of systems and total tests (i can remember exact numbers but Coast Guards in RMK marine sailed to 60-80 tests with issues or ove 200 tests.)

@xxxKULxxx i explained why we cant simply give fractions it will make no sense because the process isnt like a chain, but its more like a tree. In fact the diagram is complicated and each sections have more detailed sub process, but i prepared the simpliest one with rough distribution.

Here illustrations are;
Protoype timeline , NOTE! the timeline above is scaled down to 12 unit, each one may refer to a scale up depends on project. Also the fractions are approximate and not exact.
There is one ship ;prototype case , there will be only a ship to build eventhough there is multiple slipways.
View attachment 237226Scenario 1 , NOTE! the timeline above is scaled down to 12 unit, each one may refer to a scale up depends on project. Also the fractions are approximate and not exact.
There 2 ships to be build but shipyard got one slipway hold , So timeline will be shifted especially on slipway time.View attachment 237227
Scenario 2 , NOTE! the timeline above is scaled down to 12 unit, each one may refer to a scale up depends on project. Also the fractions are approximate and not exact.
There 2 ships to be build but shipyard got 2 slipway hold , So timeline will be compressed around the spent on slipway their launchs will have slight time difference, both might be accepted due to experience gained and applied in 2nd ship ,time spent on 2nd ship will shorten.
View attachment 237229

Here is the picture of map, it "seems" to be LST because picture is from 1-1.5 years ago

View attachment 237080

About TF2000 , as i hope it will be in model testing in 2 years , and after those test we can say there is 1-1.5 year to begin construction.

Wow this was really informative... Thx...

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

National contribution to Naval Projects based on a Tableau of the U-214 Subs

"Top 90 dakika döner dolaşır, sonunda hep Almanya kazanır!"

Country of origin and main parts
Design HDW Almanya
Engineering HDW Almanya
Hull Almanya
Dizel generators MTU Almanya
Elektrical cotors Siemens Almanya
Propusion rotary blade MMG Almanya
Accus Exide
Almanya
HBT SystemsSiemens Almanya Germany
Sonarl Atlas Elektronik Almanya- contribution Aselsan
CMS Atlas Elektronik Almanya - HAVELSAN contribution
Periscopes Carl Zeiss Almanya
Torpedo housings HDW Almanya
Torpedos Raytheon. USA- maybe AKYA Aselsan
Missiles Boeing USA --- maybe ATMACA Sub launched Roketsan
Domestic etimated %10 !

Cerbe Sınıfı Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi ve Yerli Katkı Oranı - Üsküdar Mühendishanesi

 

[ANMDT]

National contribution to Naval Projects based on a Tableau of the U-214 Subs

"Top 90 dakka döner dolaşır, sonunda hep Almanya kazanır!"

Bileşen Üretici Ülke
Tasarım HDW Almanya
Mühendislik HDW Almanya
Mukavim Tekne Malzemesi ? (Doğu) Almanya 1
Dizel Jeneratörler MTU Almanya
Elektrik Motoru Siemens Almanya
Pervane MMG (?) Almanya
Aküler Exide
Almanya
HBT Sistemi Siemens Almanya
Sonarlar Atlas Elektronik Almanya
Savaş Yönetim Sistemi Atlas Elektronik Almanya - HAVELSA contribution
Periskoplar Carl Zeiss Almanya
Torpil Kovanları HDW Almanya
Torpiller Raytheon ABD - maybe AKYA
Füzeler Boeing ABD ---- maybe ATMACA Sub launched
Çizelge.1) İşte bir denizaltıyı meydana getiren bütün temel bileşenler. Gerçek yerli katkı oranı: %10 !

Cerbe Sınıfı Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi ve Yerli Katkı Oranı - Üsküdar Mühendishanesi

A good article (about the project and examples,data) but not a good article in the matter which criticise the words from spoken by a government representative , more seemed like a political sight backgrounded. Because most of the article doesnt have any technical detail, and only focuses to criticize many thing related to government.
Yiğidi öldür hakkını yeme diyip başlayalım
The material which is used in the project isnt a secret material like nonferro,nonmagnetical material. Just an advanced variation of HYS ( high yield steel) . In this matter that makes no sense to lend money in R&D for sake of 6 platforms.

Beside this, i should not that the construction process of submarine is struggling, the required sensivity in welds and parts is so strict because even small error may end with fatality. Additionally the "hard job" of a submarine is mechanical side,rather than electronics and warfare systems. It includes the building process.

Lets come to the topic of the article, the local contribution rate ; this is calculated in different ways but roughly what is told by government is contribution over total cost ,or maybe over total systems. It is not expected to design and prepare a " ready to delivery " complete systems for sonar, periscope, AIP ,propeller. We are not that advanced in those systems yet (how many countries are advanced in that? 1, 3? At mostly 5) ,this is why we contribute through subsystems of those major systems ,Which is unseen in the tables .for example ; CMS ,havelsan contributes; Sonar ( i dont know the company ,might be aselsan or tubitak ) ; weapon systems integration Roketsan , and many subcontractors which i dont know their name in various subsystems.

Also the submarine is re-designed for us with our contribution to systems , this makes is quite local in my opinion. Also ToT is received in systems integration for submarine , CMS ,and basic level design of submarine. ( Should not forget we designed (detailed design) of milgem thanks to ToT received by a mine hunter ship ,the engineers participated in germany by peeking through windows and debating to go inside ).

So in this all matters,it is baseless to claim that local contribution is too low . And preparing a political report rather than technical report is not good for such expert people .

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@isoo Good morning bro. I tend sometimes to write "provocative" only to Show that not all is "sugar and honey". On the other side I am proud about what is done. The reason of my "provocative" tendences is constructive than destructive criticsm. In the submarine case the program delays cause of heavy political disputes between Germany and Türkiye. The same happened when we wanted Export Firtina to Azerneycan and Atatk T-129 to Pakistan. But we will overcome at last. .

 

[Hakan]

National contribution to Naval Projects based on a Tableau of the U-214 Subs

"Top 90 dakka döner dolaşır, sonunda hep Almanya kazanır!"

Bileşen Üretici Ülke
Tasarım HDW Almanya
Mühendislik HDW Almanya
Mukavim Tekne Malzemesi ? (Doğu) Almanya 1
Dizel Jeneratörler MTU Almanya
Elektrik Motoru Siemens Almanya
Pervane MMG (?) Almanya
Aküler Exide
Almanya
HBT Sistemi Siemens Almanya
Sonarlar Atlas Elektronik Almanya
Savaş Yönetim Sistemi Atlas Elektronik Almanya - HAVELSA contribution
Periskoplar Carl Zeiss Almanya
Torpil Kovanları HDW Almanya
Torpiller Raytheon ABD - maybe AKYA
Füzeler Boeing ABD ---- maybe ATMACA Sub launched
Çizelge.1) İşte bir denizaltıyı meydana getiren bütün temel bileşenler. Gerçek yerli katkı oranı: %10 !

Cerbe Sınıfı Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi ve Yerli Katkı Oranı - Üsküdar Mühendishanesi

Bro if you could give short english translation for stuff that would be great as there are many non turkish readers.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@Hakan Yes, I will do and edit later my post

 

[Hakan]

@Hakan Yes, I will do and edit later my post

No problem, if you dont have time thats fine, just saying because I get complaints sometimes.

 

[cabatli_53]

Aselsan's Tork poised to enter hard-kill torpedo countermeasures market
Menno Steketee, Amsterdam - IHS Jane's Navy International
13 July 2015




Key Points

• New Aselsan concept enters hard-kill 'anti-torpedo' market
• The torpedo countermeasures market, long-dominated by soft-kill methods, is evolving with new hard-kill concepts emerging

Turkey's Aselsan has recently revealed a new weapon concept that joins the growing number of hard-kill system approaches designed to kinetically destroy an incoming torpedo.

Tork is a surface-based 'anti-torpedo' torpedo that draws on Aselsan's soft-kill torpedo countermeasures expertise (in systems such as Hizir for surface vessels and Zargana for submarines). Fired from standard torpedo tubes, it uses an active acoustic homing system to detect an incoming weapon. Tork will be integrated into the Zargana and Hizir systems.

Aselsan's Tork poised to enter hard-kill torpedo countermeasures market - IHS Jane's 360

 

[xxxKULxxx]

@Hakan dude can you edit my this post pls...

Turkish Naval Programs | Page 112

I posted LCT's specs instead of LST... Can you remove 1st pic. and put this one pls?..

 

[Hakan]

Guys any news about LST ?...

I think 1st ship will enter inventory in 1st quarter of 2018... 2nd ship in 2nd half of 2018...

Steel cutting date is May 2014...

Anadolu Den. İnş. Kız. San ve Tic. A.Ş. | Furstrans Grup | LCT | LST | Tersane

Here it says after construction begins 1st ship will be delivered after 44 months and 2nd one is after 52 months....
View attachment 238181

And i see nothing here...

View attachment 237044

@isoo dude do you have any info regarding LST project? Also can you enlighten us a bit about construction progress of a ship... I don't know if construction road map of all ships are same... I think first they build blocks of the ship inside hangar like buildings then they combine them at the sea side, am i right ? Also can you try to divide time line of each main application ? For example... Preparing steel parts 2/10 of construction time... Finishing blocks takes 3/10... Combining blocks take 2/10... Placing systems(propulsion, weapons etc.) takes 2/10 and tests take 1/10 of construction time line... Sure it can change according to the characteristic of ships but can you tell us about naval ships(ok, there are different naval ships too )

Here i found MSI magazine's 2013 May issue from ADİK's website...

(delete red question marks from the link...)

http://www.?adik.com?tr/haber/Dcmnt114_a1_.pdf

Here some photos i captured from this pdf...

View attachment 237046
View attachment 237047 View attachment 237048 View attachment 237049 View attachment 237050View attachment 237045

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry, i couldn't understand TF-2000 part... From today how many years later construction of TF-2000 will begin ?

Done