Turkish Missile Programs

[Kutsanan]

Submarines overrated for future because there is plans to develop swarms of underwater drones that can detect and attack subs. Without cruise missiles subs are big and slow targets.

 

[Dante80]

I would like to know how warships can protect them against torpedeos.
Which one is more lethal and dangerous for ships? I think using CIWS warships are more confident against cruise missiles. But sudden flying torpedo from UAV must be real cheap surprise.KGK could use IIR guiding systems which are cheap to dedect ships.

Sudden flying torpedo from UAV is not really an issue in ASuW warfare. If you believe that a surface warship has competent air and anti-missile defenses against sea-skimmers (CIWS is the last layer of defense in that, surface combatants have multiple soft and hard kill layers), then said ship has also a pretty competent air defense against drones (that are slower and less stealthy as platforms than sea skimmers are).

In that specific instance, the UAV works like a WWII torpedo bomber against a AA ridden warship. For historic reference, take a look at the Channel Dash and the way the Fairey Swordfish worked on those operations.

Now, with regards to torps. Torpedoes, and especially heavyweight classes (533mm, 650mm) are by far the most lethal threat to surface combatants. This is due to the way they apply damage. An anti-ship missile can damage, disable and even cripple a frigate sized ship (look at the Falklands war), but a heavy torpedo essentially breaks the keel in half and sinks it, 100% of the time.

This compilation from RIMPAC can help with context.

Torpedoes are not the most dangerous threat to surface combatants though. It is not that easy to get in range to fire a torpedo against a ship. When you fire it, your cover is blown. Military ships are fast, and while they can certainly not outrun a torpedo, they have enough speed to add additional ETA to the engagement before the torpedo hits. Said time can be used to fire decoys against torpedoes, attack the platform that fired the torpedo as well as utilizing the ships torpedo tubes to counter-fire against the threat.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Submarines overrated for future because there is plans to develop swarms of underwater drones that can detect and attack subs. Without cruise missiles subs are big and slow targets.

in sea, they might be easy to attack by swarm drones, but in blue ocean, imagine thousands of debth, its hard to detect them.. But, even with UAV and sonobous, its really easy to detect SUbmarines once you have the air superity.. but until to get to that point, subs will do their work..

 

[Yellow-place]

A few weeks ago Ibrahim Sünnetçi told @ Twitter Akya Heavy torpedo is designed not to make a direct hit to the ship but make an impact at a few meters below the ship and to brake it by blast wawe.

 

[Dante80]

A few weeks ago Ibrahim Sünnetçi told @ Twitter Akya Heavy torpedo is designed not to make a direct hit to the ship but make an impact at a few meters below the ship and to brake it by blast wawe.

Yes, this is how most modern torps work (like the Mk48). The concept is as old as the WWII (proximity magnetic fuse instead of detonation fuse), and relies on the fact that a torpedo that explodes below a hull pushes the water upwards and "breaks the ships back". Back then, it was a way for submarines to effectively attack warships, since those had armor (torpedo belt) against torpedoes detonating on the side of the ship.

But the concept still holds true today, and is even more relevant now that warships are smaller and effectively unarmored against torpedo attacks.

 

[UkroTurk]

There are also some interesting sea mines. Actually mine with sonar and torpidoes.
Mark 60 CAPTOR
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR

 

[Hexciter]

https://twitter.com/x/status/986192563802603521

Reminds the earlier Hisar-A concept

 

[Timur]

do we have something against aircrafts? like ground launched missles with ~>60 km range?

I ask because I think it could be usefull specially if you cannot have 24 hours an aircraft in the sky or to cover some "rural" areas in turkey..

could we not make bozdogan to be surface launched (maybe it would have 40 km range) specially if they increase the range in further versions? or is the hit chance significantly lower when it is surface launched? could make no sence but some anti aircraft systems would be nice to have

 

[[TR]AHMET]

https://twitter.com/x/status/986192563802603521

Reminds the earlier Hisar-A concept

Still m113? camoon !

 

[UzaySan]

do we have something against aircrafts? like ground launched missles with ~>60 km range?

I ask because I think it could be usefull specially if you cannot have 24 hours an aircraft in the sky or to cover some "rural" areas in turkey..

could we not make bozdogan to be surface launched (maybe it would have 40 km range) specially if they increase the range in further versions? or is the hit chance significantly lower when it is surface launched? could make no sence but some anti aircraft systems would be nice to have

Hisar Air Defence Systems

 

[UkroTurk]

do we have something against aircrafts? like ground launched missles with ~>60 km range?

I ask because I think it could be usefull specially if you cannot have 24 hours an aircraft in the sky or to cover some "rural" areas in turkey..

could we not make bozdogan to be surface launched (maybe it would have 40 km range) specially if they increase the range in further versions? or is the hit chance significantly lower when it is surface launched? could make no sence but some anti aircraft systems would be nice to have

Currently used SAMs you mean?
Of course we have HAWK SAMs ground based and operational with 50km range.
Turkish frigates have SM1 missiles with 100km ranges accross the Turkish coasts they cover us.
Not so bad
Also in istanbul we have high altitude SAM Nike's.
Some ships have sea sparrow but i dunno whether advanced.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-23_Hawk

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-14_Nike_Hercules

Edit i forgot Rapiers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier_(missile)


https://tr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15._Füze_Üs_Komutanlığı

 

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[Killuminati]

^ Pff badazz missile! But air intake is covered so no flying tests where done?

 

[Kutsanan]

in sea, they might be easy to attack by swarm drones, but in blue ocean, imagine thousands of debth, its hard to detect them.. But, even with UAV and sonobous, its really easy to detect SUbmarines once you have the air superity.. but until to get to that point, subs will do their work..

There is no ocean around us But drone tech gettin better and better everyday. We cant know what we gonna see next day.

Currently used SAMs you mean?
Of course we have HAWK SAMs ground based and operational with 50km range.
Turkish frigates have SM1 missiles with 100km ranges accross the Turkish coasts they cover us.
Not so bad
Also in istanbul we have high altitude SAM Nike's.
Some ships have sea sparrow but i dunno whether advanced.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-23_Hawk

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-14_Nike_Hercules

Edit i forgot Rapiers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier_(missile)


https://tr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15._Füze_Üs_Komutanlığı

Are facking kidding? Nike is oldest sam around us. dont think its active anymore.

 

[Neptune]

Again i have a crazy idea What do you think about combining cruise missile with torpido in order to avoid CIWS and to destroy ships??
For example cruise missile makes course 100 miles by flying untill 2 or 3 miles to target it leaves torpido to water. Torpido avoids CIWS and hits ship

There were some examples missile with torpidos but they were made for nuclear toorpidos.
They had also poor range. May be some UAVs with torpido's we will see or unmanned sonars with sea mine-torpidos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikara_(missile)

Malafon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malafon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUR-5_ASROC

MILAS- MBDA
Derived from the OTOMAT MK2 missile system, MILAS is designed to carry and release an MU-90, or similar, lightweight torpedo, close to the designated submarine position, as indicated by the ship sonar or by a co-operating ASW helicopter or MPA.

MILAS is capable of ranges from 5 to in excess of 35 km in all directions.

The system effectiveness relies on the capability to update the trajectory and the torpedo release point continuously during the missile flight, with the added advantage of modifying the torpedo settings in respect of target manoeuvres.


With its fast reaction time, operational range and availability, the system provides the launching ship and the escorted naval formation permanent and effective defence against the submarine, be it conventional or nuclear.

MILAS missiles can also be used together with OTOMAT MK 2 missiles in a common system for combined ASW and ASuW operations as in the Italian FREMMs.

Developed in co-operation by France and Italy, MILAS is in operational service with the Italian Navy.

• MILAS: ASW version with a light torpedo in the nose. Weights 800 kg (including torpedo), 6-meter length, 0.46-meter diameter, and 5 km to 35+ km effective range, compatible with Otomat standard systems.[8] The MILAS program started in the 1980s, and was finally adopted only by Italian Navy, the French Navy withdrawing from the program due to cost.
• Otomat
  
  Type Medium-range anti-ship missile
  Place of origin Italy
  Service history
  In service 1977
  Production history
  Manufacturer MBDA
  Specifications
  Weight 770 kg (1,698 lb) with booster
  Length 4.46 m (14.6 ft)
  Diameter 400 mm (15.7 in)
  Warhead 210 kg (463 lb)
  Detonation
  mechanism
  Impact and proximity
  Engine Turbojet engine
  Operational
  range
  >180 km (97 nmi)
  Speed 310 m/s (690 mph; 1,100 km/h; Mach 0.91)
  Guidance
  system
  Inertial guidance, GPS and active radar homing
  Launch
  platform
  Surface-launched
  The Otomat[1] is an Italian-built, anti-ship and coastal defence missile first built by the Italian company Oto Melara jointly with Matraand now made by MBDA.
  
  The name comes, for the first versions, from the name of the two builders (OTO Melara MATra) and, for the later versions, Teseo, from the Italian word for Theseus. The MILAS variant is an anti-submarine missile.
  
  Roketsan, a Turkish missile manufacturer, signed an agreement in 2010 with MBDA to design, develop, and produce the new generation of rocket engines for the Otomat.[2]

View attachment 466705

http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/milas/

I believe that, on the contrary, it becomes harder for torpedoes to hit their targets nowadays as several important technologies emerged as passive and active countermeasures against torpedoes. However, hypersonic missiles would indeed pose a grave threat for any advanced surface combatant with a formidable CIWS and short range air defense systems.