Turkish Missile Programs

[Bismarck]

Looks like Qatar buyin 5000 APKWS 2 guidance kits from US thats bad news for Cirit.

Qatar doin great job for making america great again.

The current U.S foreign policy looks as follows. Who want to be protected by us, must pay in dollar. Who wants protected from us, must pay in dollar too (by purchasing weapons in this case). It’s nothing more than self protection by Qatar.

 

[mehmet75]

This is a mafia system.. sicilian way of protection..

 

[Otonom Piyade]

This is a mafia system.. sicilian way of protection..

Haha couldnt of said it better... very true indeed.

 

[kartal1]

This is a mafia system.. sicilian way of protection..

The whole world of politics and strategic cooperation is mafia. The nice tongue giving you the feel that you are listening to high level philosophers, the expensive suits and maintained hair, the smiles and the formal environment screaming "V.I.P."! Its all for the normal ignorant people who are working for their comfort to exist. They will never show us the reality behind the scenes where blackmail, violence and treacherous plans are common practice. Where the real game of dominance and survival is being played and personal interest are being chased. They will never show us that side of the coin because it will destroy all the norms and understandings of the elite we had till that moment which are more artificial than the food the most of us are eating right now. And those good looking people who are speaking like some kind of prophets of God are the small fishes. Can we imagine what kind of world is the world of the big players who are standing behind them? The whole system is not like the most people think. Its a lot darker and that's why if you hear political or public figures, directors of important departments and state institutions to be inside of schemes for drug traffic, human traffic, smuggling, corruption and even support for terrorist organizations don't be shocked. In the terrible world we live in sometimes its the only way to survive. At the end the most of the nice looking and highly educated people we see on so important positions that are talking to us and are promising things are very intelligent liars, thieves or killers or even the three at the same time. For the normal people that are psychically intact its shocking, repulsing and disgusting but when you actually enter that world for a bit and see how the game is being played your perception and understanding of the limits and the definition called "normal" starts to change and to adapt to the rules and the environment. The important things are the motive and the intention when you are doing it. Its easy to judge from the point of view of the normal human being on a moderate position in life but not every time those terrible things are terrible in nature. Sometimes it can lead to good but of course the definition of good and bad is changing trough the different people. I would give an example of that with the story of Moses and the Green Man in the holy Quran in Surah Al Kahf 18:65-18:81. Examples of contradictory actions like these can be seen all over in Turkey as well both on political and on secret service level so even Turkey is not exception when it comes to the rules of the game. The world is fucked up but that don't mean by any means that we stop to exist in it.

 

[Kutsanan]

The current U.S foreign policy looks as follows. Who want to be protected by us, must pay in dollar. Who wants protected from us, must pay in dollar too (by purchasing weapons in this case). It’s nothing more than self protection by Qatar.

Awful truth

 

[UkroTurk]

Up Up Up.
It is written "Ground testing process". Is it old photo? We have seen some AA missile in exhibitions??

CIRIT launched from Archangel aircraft

https://twitter.com/x/status/984042847140753408

horrendously looks Ugly aircraft

 

[Otonom Piyade]

That is a rather big payload for an aircraft that size.

 

[xenon54 out]

horrendously looks Ugly aircraft

i think it looks badass.

 

[Dante80]

Up Up Up.
It is written "Ground testing process". Is it old photo? We have seen some AA missile in exhibitions??


horrendously looks Ugly aircraft

The canopy gives away a little its crop duster heritage, but the whole package looks pretty menacing and cool imo.

I think there was a study some time back on fitting a bubble style canopy to the aircraft, like the Pilatus or the Tucano have for example.

 

[UkroTurk]

Again i have a crazy idea What do you think about combining cruise missile with torpido in order to avoid CIWS and to destroy ships??
For example cruise missile makes course 100 miles by flying untill 2 or 3 miles to target it leaves torpido to water. Torpido avoids CIWS and hits ship

There were some examples missile with torpidos but they were made for nuclear toorpidos.
They had also poor range. May be some UAVs with torpido's we will see or unmanned sonars with sea mine-torpidos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikara_(missile)

Malafon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malafon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUR-5_ASROC

MILAS- MBDA
Derived from the OTOMAT MK2 missile system, MILAS is designed to carry and release an MU-90, or similar, lightweight torpedo, close to the designated submarine position, as indicated by the ship sonar or by a co-operating ASW helicopter or MPA.

MILAS is capable of ranges from 5 to in excess of 35 km in all directions.

The system effectiveness relies on the capability to update the trajectory and the torpedo release point continuously during the missile flight, with the added advantage of modifying the torpedo settings in respect of target manoeuvres.


With its fast reaction time, operational range and availability, the system provides the launching ship and the escorted naval formation permanent and effective defence against the submarine, be it conventional or nuclear.

MILAS missiles can also be used together with OTOMAT MK 2 missiles in a common system for combined ASW and ASuW operations as in the Italian FREMMs.

Developed in co-operation by France and Italy, MILAS is in operational service with the Italian Navy.

• MILAS: ASW version with a light torpedo in the nose. Weights 800 kg (including torpedo), 6-meter length, 0.46-meter diameter, and 5 km to 35+ km effective range, compatible with Otomat standard systems.[8] The MILAS program started in the 1980s, and was finally adopted only by Italian Navy, the French Navy withdrawing from the program due to cost.
• Otomat
  
  Type Medium-range anti-ship missile
  Place of origin Italy
  Service history
  In service 1977
  Production history
  Manufacturer MBDA
  Specifications
  Weight 770 kg (1,698 lb) with booster
  Length 4.46 m (14.6 ft)
  Diameter 400 mm (15.7 in)
  Warhead 210 kg (463 lb)
  Detonation
  mechanism
  Impact and proximity
  Engine Turbojet engine
  Operational
  range
  >180 km (97 nmi)
  Speed 310 m/s (690 mph; 1,100 km/h; Mach 0.91)
  Guidance
  system
  Inertial guidance, GPS and active radar homing
  Launch
  platform
  Surface-launched
  The Otomat[1] is an Italian-built, anti-ship and coastal defence missile first built by the Italian company Oto Melara jointly with Matraand now made by MBDA.
  
  The name comes, for the first versions, from the name of the two builders (OTO Melara MATra) and, for the later versions, Teseo, from the Italian word for Theseus. The MILAS variant is an anti-submarine missile.
  
  Roketsan, a Turkish missile manufacturer, signed an agreement in 2010 with MBDA to design, develop, and produce the new generation of rocket engines for the Otomat.[2]

http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/milas/

 

[Dante80]

Again i have a crazy idea What do you think about combining cruise missile with torpido in order to avoid CIWS and to destroy ships??
For example cruise missile makes course 100 miles by flying untill 2 or 3 miles to target it leaves torpido to water. Torpido avoids CIWS and hits ship

Attaining a large range is not that easy as we may think. You see, a lightweight torpedo together with its mating adapter weighs close to 300kg by itself. So, you essentially need a cruise missile that can deliver a 300kg payload some 100nm away.

This would be a pretty big missile. For example, the MILAS project that uses a turbojet weighs close to 800kg before it is canisterised, and has a maximum range of 19nm.

It is certainly doable (something on the 1,250kg range), but this would be a pretty expensive project.

 

[UkroTurk]

Attaining a large range is not that easy as we may think. You see, a lightweight torpedo together with its mating adapter weighs close to 300kg by itself. So, you essentially need a cruise missile that can deliver a 300kg payload some 100nm away.

This would be a pretty big missile. For example, the MILAS project that uses a turbojet weighs close to 800kg before it is canisterised, and has a maximum range of 19nm.

It is certainly doable (something on the 1,250kg range), but this would be a pretty expensive project.

MILAS were designed against submarines.

What about using flying torpedoes against warships? It would ease and make cheaper dedecting systems.

I've seen first time this drone. WTF UAE produces UAV?
UAV with light torpidoe!!

UAE-based unmanned air vehicle (UAV) specialist ADCOM Systems (Stand OA-003) has unveiled an antisubmarine warfare (ASW) variant of its United-40 Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAV. Developed in co-operation with Finmeccanica (Stand 06-A03) company Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS), the United-40 Block 6 has been developed so as to be able to carry and deploy sonobuoys, plus a single lightweight torpedo.

ADCOM and WASS signed a letter of intent to co-develop an ASW-optimised MALE UAV in late 2013.

Since then, they have been working to mature their United-40 Block 6 concept, leading to the unveiling of a first full-scale version at the show.

According to ADCOM Systems, the United-40 Block 6 UAV can be used to lay a barrier of sonobuoys, and then continue to loiter in the area for up to 16 hours with its torpedo armament.

Sonobuoy pre-processing – employing proven multi-static techniques – would be performed on board the UAV, with acoustic data then shared via link to co-operating units.

Alternatively, a group of UAVs could operate together to create a larger field of sonobuoys. Cooperative operations could also be performed with maritime patrol aircraft and ASW helicopters equipped with active dipping sonars.

One other option postulated by ADCOM and WASS is for the United-40 Block 6 UAV to be used as a dedicated weapon-carrier, thus allowing helicopters and MPAs to carry more fuel and hence extend time on station.

Such an approach would increase the range at which submarine threats could be engaged. Furthermore, given the potential proliferation of submarine self-defence missile systems in the coming years, the use of a UAV to drop a torpedo in the target vicinity would enable manned airborne ASW platforms to remain at a safe range outside.

ADCOM and WASS are working to advance the electronic and mechanical integration of the ASW payloads, including drop testing from the United-40 platform. This is planned to culminate later this year with a torpedo drop test demonstration for the UAE Naval Forces.

Another interesting development for marine forces
HAAWC anti-submarine warfare (ASW) technology involves Boeing-built add-on kits for the U.S. Navy Mark 54 lightweight torpedo called the HAAWC Air Launch Accessory (ALA) that will enable the weapon to glide through the air from altitudes as high as 30,000 feet and enable the Boeing P-8A to attack enemy submarines from long ranges.

All abovementioned weapons are easy to produce for Turkish defence industry, we've already had ANKA's, Kanat Gudum Kiti etc..

 

[Dante80]

Then, there is the matter of guidance. The reason the weapons you posted above have small range and are used in ASW scenarios is two-fold. They provide rapid response in active sonar range (or networked LAMPS range) against submarine targets, and they are inside datalink range limits for mid-course correction.

Ships and subs move, and the longer ETA you have to a target the more distance they have travelled in the mean time.

1. TVM and ARH guidance is impossible because you don't have a seeker up front. You have the payload.
2. Datalink correction is extremely tricky at the ranges we talk about. And would require the missile to fly at a high altitude mid-course (beat the horizon), so as to get updated data from the platform.
3. Pre-programmed, inertial, GPS or launch predictive guidance would not fit the bill. By the time you run a subsonic cruise missile to 100nm, 11 minutes have passed. A ship moving at 20kn will have moved more than 6km in the meantime. And that is before we take into account the fact that we don't know if it even changed course.

So, in the end, it really doesn't make much sense. You can simply do then an ASuW UAV if you really want torpedoes.

 

[Saithan]

but UAV to drop sonobuoy is actually pretty neat idea. could be quite an effective way of creating a net.

 

[UkroTurk]

Turkish ANKA UAV easily could dedect anywarships. Ours might have thought UAV with torpedoe.
I would like to know how warships can protect them against torpedeos.
Which one is more lethal and dangerous for ships? I think using CIWS warships are more confident against cruise missiles. But sudden flying torpedo from UAV must be real cheap surprise.KGK could use IIR guiding systems which are cheap to dedect ships.

EDIT:
It is Ground Launched Small Diametr Bomb whose copy is being developed by Roketsan!

It is flying torpedoe whose copy was produced KGK as a conventional glide bomb

Result: 300mm turkish artilery rockets with flying torpedoes!