Turkish Military is better than IDF

[Hellfire2006]

If you google US naval war college research paper on Kargil, you'd give yourself a slap.

Care to share the source or did you just make it up, waiting for you to share the source

That said despite all the indian holabaloo, you still ended up loosing almost a dozen peaks, more troops

It's documented that Pakistanis lost more men despite sitting at the heights, your prime minister Nawaz Sharif claimed as many as 4,000 casualties. But realistic estimates range between 450-1000 dead on Pakistani side , we'd never know the exact no.of casualties because you refused to accept your dead bodies during the early days, hence we had to bury them with full military honours . As for the peaks, it was never a dozen , the only bone of contention was 5353 which right through the LoC ,I believe we evened up the score for 5353 by taking 5310 , 1km on your side

, airborne assets like jets and choppers. Against lightly armed 2500-30000 paramil and Mujahideen troops v entire divisions

Yeah, karnal sher khan was a paramil officer right ? What was a regular army officer doing in a paramil force ? There was an estimated size of 2 Pakistani brigades in the area , mostly NLI troops as well as some regular units. NLI was better in mountains than regular Pakistani units. Ideally they should have inflicted 10 times more casualties since they were on the high ground , but in the end , indian army dislodged them and they had to retreat with more casualties than they could inflict to indian attacking forces

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey can not even beat pkk in 40 yrs so don't worry about Hamas who has their own territory.

Turkish Army easly beat PKK in Turkish soil
therefore PKK founded terror camps in Iran ,Iraq and Syria since 1990

You are not biggest economy in the region its saudi arabia and then iran (adjusted for decreased sanctions).

GDP Nominal

Turkiye : $1.154 trillion
S.Arabia : $1.069 trillion
Israel : $521 billion
Iran : $366 billion

Turkiye has bigger economy than Israel+Iran combined

List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you don't have start of the art weapons like egypt and gulf arabs or nukes like israel. Your 'truths' is your brainwashing that you want to unload on the rest of us.

Gulf Arabs even dont know how to fight ... lol
Their so-called state-of-the weapons are useless

Reality hurts anti-Turkiye users like You


Egypt,S.Arabia,Iran are backward Countries to compare with Turkiye in technology and Defense Industry

and Israel is nothing without USA


State of the art weapons for the Turkish Armed Forces ... now and soon

And many more ......

Our ex vassals Greece , Iran , S.Arabia , Egypt , Israel only can dream about Turksh Defense Industry

 

[Hellfire2006]

Cyprus,N.Iraq,Afrin,Al bab and countless other successful operation and rising domestic military industry.. I dont even have to speak about our part in civil war in Libya

and Karabakh war..

None of these were real conventional wars , just a few counter insurgency operations and sending a few soldiers to train pro turkey militias, that's not a real war. A real war is fought against a peer enemy with a formal army and a defined geographic boundary. For example - greece. Northern Iraq , Cyprus are nowhere close to being called as real wars. They're as much of a war as India's involvement in Maldives in 1988 which saved the country from a coup or our operations in Congo , Sudan and Sierra Leone.

Now what was the last victory of the Indian army other than killing simple Kashmir Muslims?

Every war we fought against your best friend either ended in a stalemate or a decisive indian victory. And your friend's military is better than your own , so you can make an estimate. We fought 4 wars with them , 2 ended in a tie with no clear winners and 2 ended in our victory. We also took the world's largest non polar glacier , Siachen from them in 1984.
Moreover, like you fought insurgencies, we have been fighting insurgencies in Kashmir since 1989 , we decisively destroyed the insurgency in Punjab which lasted from 1982-1995. We totally dissolved the active naga insurgency which was funded by china from 1950-2009 and turned into a group of small gangs fighting each other with Chinese weapons and money. We dismantled the Mizo insurgency from 1966-1980 which got support from across the border in Myanmmar and east Pakistan. We have defeated the world's longest and largest communist insurgency funded by china which once ravaged through the entire countryside to a small pocket of forest in Central india and now they have nowhere to expand and recruit. We defeated the Bodo Insurgency from 1985-2019 along with Bhutan when the last remaining Bodo militias surrendered. The Kashmir insurgency was the most brutal in the world in the 90s with 30,000 militants roaming a valley of relatively small size , today there are barely 200. We inflicted a casualty rate of 1:5 on the militants during this phase of insurgency. All done without air support or artillery, we only fought with light infantry weapons. Because the government protocol strictly prohibits use of heavy weapons and air power against kashmiri civillians amongst whom the militant hide , while the Turks despite using air support and heavy artillery couldn't defeat PKK FOR 40 YEARS !

 

[MMM-E]

Finally. Isn’t it ridiculous to compare US military vs Turkish military. Turkish military is more is the scale of Iranian military or Greek military. It’s not even in the same ball park as the US military. A couple of Ohio class guided missile nuclear subs (not nuclear missile sub) and a few aircraft carrier assets can destroy the whole Turkish AF. The US navy 3rd fleet has a stronger air wing vs Turkish AF. US Air Force is not even needed. This discussion is not productive.

USA is a hyper power which has bigger defense budget than China+Russia+India+The UK+France+Germany+Japan+S.Korea+Brazil+Italy+Turkiye combined


to destroy military equipment is a thing
to conquer a country is another thing

USA failed in Vietnam in 20 years and Afghanistan in 20 years

keep watching RAMBO-2 movie for Vietnam ..... hahaha


RESULT : North Vietnamese and Viet Cong/PRG victory

1-- USA failed to comprehend the political dynamics of the local and regional landscape and more importantly, what Vietnam wanted to become

2-- USA lost huge money and around 60.000 soldiers for nothing

also 303,644 wounded .. most of them lost their leg , arm or eyes



Therefore USA now has a strategy to use puppets for American interests

Ukraine against Russia
Taiwan against China
PKK-YPG , Greece against Turkiye

 

[Hold the door]

Our exvassals Greece , Iran , S.Arabia , Egypt , Israel only can dream about Turksh Defense Industry

You are insulting these countries because of one Chinese troll. End to this.

 

[MMM-E]

while the Turks despite using air support and heavy artillery couldn't defeat PKK FOR 40 YEARS !

Stop posting same BS

Turkish Army easly defeated PKK in Turkish soil

but USA,Iran,Syrian Regime always blocked Turkiye to destroy PKK/YPG in Iran,Iraq and Syria
therefore PKK founded terror camps in Iran ,Iraq and Syria since 1990


-- Israeli Army can not enter even the outskirts of Gaza to fight HAMAS .... so pathetic Army
-- Egyptian Army could not match with even 1.000 ISIS terrorists in Sinai

on the other hand
A total of 35.786 PKK-YPG and ISIS terrorists have been neutralized by the Turkish Army as a result of operations since July 2015 in Turkiye , Iraq and Syria

 

[A Voice of Reason]

what craps ? reality hurts you

You , LegionnairE , Foinikas , etc are ignorant boys and nothing on PDF


Stop trolling with your jealousy and ignorance

1-- Turkiye has the strongest military power in the region

2024 Military Strength Ranking

Ranking the nations of the world based on current available firepower.

www.globalfirepower.com

2-- Turkiye has the best Defense Industry in the region
others not even close


3-- Turkiye is only industrialized country in the region

Newly industrialized country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

4-- Turkiye has the biggest economy in the region

Turkiye : $1.154 trillion
Israel : $521 billion
Egypt : $398 billion
Iran : $366 billion
Greece : $242 billion

List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I show the reality with Source

Turkiye is the strongest country in the region by military and economy to compare with Israel , Greece , Iran and Egypt

Your craps wont change the reality

Actually Turkiye and Israel are not busy trying to compare the power of their respective militaries or the size of their anatomies or anything else. That tends to be the province of the brilliant minds on PDF.

The truth is that Turkiye has deep economic challenges. Many of them brought on by the amazing economic theories of the Turkish President.

Turkish economic crisis (2018–current) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As of 2023 Turkiye and Israel have a $9.5 Billion USD trade relationship that is a) 3 to 1 in Turkiye's favor and b) rising steadily for the last decade and c) likely to rise further and doing this fast.

Erdogan says Turkey, Israel to take steps in energy drilling soon, media report

Turkey and Israel will soon begin taking joint steps in energy drilling, President Tayyip Erdogan was cited by Turkish media as saying on Thursday, adding the two countries would also operate energy networks to Europe through Turkey.

www.reuters.com

Turkiye can simply ill afford to destroy this source of income and adding even more to its economic challanges.

This has meant that no matter how much the President of Turkiye might rail against Israel in the past, present and no doubt in the future, his past performance indicates both he and Israel will keep their real relationship quarantined from the rhetoric and humming along nicely.

Israel and Turkiye are not going to war and comparing the size of their militaries for some theoretical war is merely a useless thought excersize.

 

[Trisolaran]

None of these were real conventional wars , just a few counter insurgency operations and sending a few soldiers to train pro turkey militias, that's not a real war. A real war is fought against a peer enemy with a formal army and a defined geographic boundary. For example - greece. Northern Iraq , Cyprus are nowhere close to being called as real wars. They're as much of a war as India's involvement in Maldives in 1988 which saved the country from a coup or our operations in Congo , Sudan and Sierra Leone.


Every war we fought against your best friend either ended in a stalemate or a decisive indian victory. And your friend's military is better than your own , so you can make an estimate. We fought 4 wars with them , 2 ended in a tie with no clear winners and 2 ended in our victory. We also took the world's largest non polar glacier , Siachen from them in 1984.
Moreover, like you fought insurgencies, we have been fighting insurgencies in Kashmir since 1989 , we decisively destroyed the insurgency in Punjab which lasted from 1982-1995. We totally dissolved the active naga insurgency which was funded by china from 1950-2009 and turned into a group of small gangs fighting each other with Chinese weapons and money. We dismantled the Mizo insurgency from 1966-1980 which got support from across the border in Myanmmar and east Pakistan. We have defeated the world's longest and largest communist insurgency funded by china which once ravaged through the entire countryside to a small pocket of forest in Central india and now they have nowhere to expand and recruit. We defeated the Bodo Insurgency from 1985-2019 along with Bhutan when the last remaining Bodo militias surrendered. The Kashmir insurgency was the most brutal in the world in the 90s with 30,000 militants roaming a valley of relatively small size , today there are barely 200. We inflicted a casualty rate of 1:5 on the militants during this phase of insurgency. All done without air support or artillery, we only fought with light infantry weapons. Because the government protocol strictly prohibits use of heavy weapons and air power against kashmiri civillians amongst whom the militant hide , while the Turks despite using air support and heavy artillery couldn't defeat PKK FOR 40 YEARS !

It's too long, I didn't read it all.. But here's my short answer..

Türkiye has the most experienced army in the region and is 80% independent in its defense industry. We were close to all-out war with Syria and Greece, and they were the ones who took a step back.



Pakistan still has Azad Kashmir, so there is no complete victory for India over Pakistan



The PKK's military wing has always been defeated and has never won a conventional war.

PKK does not exist in Turkey, it exists in Iraq.

Meanwhile, Indian army's inability to stop the conflict in Manipur or the maoist militias in Naxile is even more embarrassing for a superpower.

 

[PradoTLC]

Back in mid 2000s, my father was posted as an Observer team leader and I was visiting.

Woke up in the evening to Pak troops forcefully taking the Egyptians to the UN compound... Dudes would sit outside, smoke sheesha and fk African hookers and than not pay them lol.

A problematic and undisciplined bunch...

Yup that is why I said the Egyptian army is a hit and miss affair .. remember in 1973 the Egyptian army under General Shasli did a fantastic job.

swear if Pak had Saudi petro dollar support, we would wipe the floors with any mofo out ther

Pakistan has more resources over all ie water , gas , mineral , agricultural, etc Pakistan problem was always governance

 

[PradoTLC]

It's documented that Pakistanis lost more men despite sitting at the heights, your prime minister Nawaz Sharif claimed as many as 4,000 casualtie

Nope.. that is BS

As you have no common sense you don’t understand.

It is impossible for Pakistan to have those many casualties because those heights have space restrictions means no more than 300 or so soldiers could be accommodated on those vantage points

There merely observers and snipers that hailed hell from Pak army highly accurate artillery fire to the wave after wave of Indian army attacks that were beaten back ..

The Indian army adopted very poor and predictable tactics .. and in Galwan 2020 we saw the same against the Chinese army, ie poor tactical execution.

 

[Hellfire2006]

Nope.. that is BS

As you have no common sense you don’t understand.

that's why I said that the claims put forward by nawaz are exaggerated and the realistic estimate lies between 450-1000 dead for pak army, the estimate is harder to make due to the fact that you abandoned some dead bodies. did you even read whatever I wrote ? or were you facing comprehension issues. for a place like kargil 4,000 definitely sounds like an exaggeration. musharraf said 357 , pakistan army officialy says 457 , nawaz claimed 4,000 , US state department estimated 700 deaths for the pak army. india claimed anywhwere between 700-1200 pakistanis KIA. so the real figure must be somewhere between 400-1000

There merely observers and snipers that hailed hell from Pak army highly accurate artillery fire to wave after wave of Indian army attacks that were beaten back ..

key point, you did have artillery and air defences there, unlike many here who claim that your army fought without artillery support or air defence cover.

 

[PradoTLC]

key point, you did have artillery and air defences there, unlike many here who claim that your army fought with artillery support or air defence cover.

Claimed by who ?

Santa clause ?

Lol

2 IAF fast jets destroyed , 3 helo, shot down and one badly damaged Jaguar that limped back to base … you think we used harsh words?

between 450-1000 dead for pak army,

700 casualties of which were 450 or so were dead mostly caused when soldiers withdrew the came under fire from Indians who broke the cease fire agreement brokered by the Americans as they were coming down.

Shameless unprofessional army of India

 

[Hellfire2006]

Claimed by who ?

Santa clause ?

Lol

2 IAF fast jets destroyed , 3 helo, shot down and one badly damaged Jaguar that limped back to base … you think we used harsh words?

there are some people who claim that your soldiers fought only with light weapons against us for 2 months, I find those claims laughable and that's why felt reassured to see a pakistani who atleast knows that your soldiers indeed possessed artillery and air defence cover. we only lost 1 helicopter by the way.

700 casualties of which were 450 or so were dead mostly caused when soldiers withdrew the came under fire from Indians who broke the cease fire agreement brokered by the Americans as they were coming down.

Shameless unprofessional army of India

excuses, the fact that you guys couldnt conserve casualties while making a fighting withdrawal shows how unprofessional the entire withdrawal exercise was. you should try and hold your generals accountable for once rather than blaming us for your casualties. we being your enemy , our aim was to inflict maximum attrition. which we did , quite successfully and made you suffer a higher death toll than what we suffered, and in the end , logistics to siachen were still intact despite the constant artillery fire on leh srinagar highway. whenever you think of calling us unprofessional , just remeber that we held 93,000 of your PoWs( uniformed and civilian) for 3 years and fed them three time meals with tea. had they been left to the mukti bahini's mercy , you very well know what would have happened

 

[LeGenD]

Cyi



Dude…

They still lost

This war was not lost in the battlefield but due to American political paralysis.

Vietcong Tet Offensive in 1968	Failure to reclaim South Vietnam	American Victory
American Operation Apache Snow	A Sau Valley captured	American Victory*
Vietcong Easter Offensive in 1972**	Failure to reclaim South Vietnam	American Victory

*President Johnson ordered withdrawal of American troops from A Sau Valley.

**Vietcong launched this offensive when President Nixon ordered withdrawal of American troops from South Vietnam. American troops were put in a difficult situation but Operation Linebacker II crippled Vietcong and brought it to the negotiation table in 1972. President Nixon did not take advantage of this shift in situation to secure freedom of South Vietnam. Vietcong recovered in subsequent years and reclaimed South Vietnam in 1975.

This is how it went down.

But here is something:

Vietnam, Japan Expected to Deepen Ties as China Concerns Grow

The new relationship comes a month after the US and Vietnam upgraded their ties to the same level, showing Hanoi’s diversification of its ties, experts say

www.voanews.com

US gets to influence Vietnam on the whole in a strategic move.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Why not put this to the test and Turkey pummels Israel into the ground. We can then dissolve OIC and let Turks lead the region into the modern age, with the full Middle East and Pakistan becoming Turk client states.

Outcomes:

Arabs shown their place.
Iran shown their place.
Pakistan shown their place.