Turkish LHD Program | News & Discusions

[xxxKULxxx]

Guys i read 2014 March MSI magazine... There is an interview with Navantia's Türkiye general director...

From that interview, guy asks Will thewre be differences between Spanish one and Turkish one...

That guy, Jorge Garcia-Monedero answers...

1- Most great difference is battle managment system will be made by Havelsan - Aselsan cooperation and it will be a version of GENESİS...
2- There will be no ski-jump
3- Ship's shelter capacity will be changed
4- The elevator which is on the front of the ship will be removed* and a shutter will be added there.
* (I am not sure if that elevator will be removed so i write it here in original Turkish and see what you think)

* Ön tarafta bulunan hava aracı asansörünün yerine kapak eklenmesi *

I understood that elevator will be removed coz he also says shelter capacity will be changed. So i think elevator will be removed and shelter capacity will be increased...

5- Deck's crane capacity will be increased
6- And another part here. I'm not expert so you can understand it better.
* Bunların dışında çeşitli değişiklikler olsa da dışarıdan baktığımızda, kalkış rampası ve "ada" olarak da nitelendirilen, uçuş güvertesinde yer alan yapının üstü kısmı dışında pek bir farklılık görülmeyecek. *

Also guy asked in another question" Can LHD Juan Carlos I operate F-35B ? "

and guy answered " Yes, LHD Juan Carlos I is based on F-35B "

Lastly my short comment... As some people said there will not be ski-jump but it will not be lighter then Juan Carlos I... Our LHD will have nearly same tonnage with Juan Carlos I.... It will be something big...

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Questions !!!

What are the advantages and disadvantages of SKI-JUMP on OUR LHD ?

With my limited knowledge... First i ask... Can we operate F-35B on our LHD without that ski-jump ???...

And i am thinking of when there is no ski-jump...There will larger flat area... This look it's good for MORE area for helicopters...

And i think about if we want we can carry more wheeled and tracked vehicles on the deck ? BTW is there anything wrong about carrying land vehicles on the deck ?

Also without ski-jump there will be more area for humanitarian operations...

So what's your opinions about our LHD which will have no ski-jump ? Also do you think our LHD will be modified in the future... Because when we look at Navantia'a official's answers he says that " Elevator will be removed and a shutter will be added there " ... So does it mean we can remove that shutter and put an elevator there in the future ?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Questions !!!

What are the advantages and disadvantages of SKI-JUMP on OUR LHD ?

With my limited knowledge... First i ask... Can we operate F-35B on our LHD without that ski-jump ???...

And i am thinking of when there is no ski-jump...There will larger flat area... This look it's good for MORE area for helicopters...

And i think about if we want we can carry more wheeled and tracked vehicles on the deck ? BTW is there anything wrong about carrying land vehicles on the deck ?

Also without ski-jump there will be more area for humanitarian operations...

So what's your opinions about our LHD which will have no ski-jump ? Also do you think our LHD will be modified in the future... Because when we look at Navantia'a official's answers he says that " Elevator will be removed and a shutter will be added there " ... So does it mean we can remove that shutter and put an elevator there in the future ?

It depends upon the primary mission of your ship. If you primarily want it a helicopter ship then putting a ski-jump takes away spots and causes some rotor impact worries. Also some helicopters do rolling starts and a ski-jump probably wouldn't be beneficial.

If you primary want VTOL jets then a ski jump is useful.

As for the front elevator the design of it on the Juan Carlos unfortunately takes up precious hangar space since it is internal (vs external which only takes up deck space).

So if you want more hangar space the easiest way to do that is to get rid of the front elevator.

The F35B doesn't need a ski jump to takeoff. No US ship has ski-jumps and none are planned probably due to helicopter issues. The US has amphibious assault ships that carry Harriers/MV22 Ospreys/helicopters on flat decks.

 

[Neptune]

Questions !!!

What are the advantages and disadvantages of SKI-JUMP on OUR LHD ?

Well. ski-jump basically makes the LHD into kind of a multi-role amphibious assasult ship. It'll allow the ship to have a shorter time of scramble in case of an alert. It just gives the planes to be airborne faster than VTOL. There seems to be an angled part from outside but it also occupies a huge part inside the ship. Removing the ski-jump was a wise decision. It'll allow the ship to have a larger hangar and a larger flight deal, which means operating more aircraft and being able to have more aircraft on deck.

With my limited knowledge... First i ask... Can we operate F-35B on our LHD without that ski-jump ???...

Of course. In fact, currently US Navy operates F-35Bs at her Wasp-class LHDs whom do not have ski-jumps nor catapults. It has a similar lenght with our LHD. They can use it with both vertical takeoff and traditional takeoff. But they do land vertically. Spain will also replace her Harriers stationed at Juan Carlos with F-35B. If you check the wiki page of JSF. For Turkey it says, Turkey may increase it's orders from 110 to 120, also considering initials orders of 2 aircraft. I believe Navy has plans about F-35B at future.

And i am thinking of when there is no ski-jump...There will larger flat area... This look it's good for MORE area for helicopters...

Of course. It'll bring more operational capabilities at missions

And i think about if we want we can carry more wheeled and tracked vehicles on the deck ?

Of course. With the extra square meters to be gained with removing the ski-jump, we can use it for land platforms. DZKK will decide it.

BTW is there anything wrong about carrying land vehicles on the deck ?

sure man, but it'd just sound weird. If you look at the last post of my "Awesome Military Pictures Thread". You can see a photo that shows, Chinese howitzers similar to our T-155, being operated on the deck of a Chinese destroyer .

Also without ski-jump there will be more area for humanitarian operations...

depends on the mission.

So what's your opinions about our LHD which will have no ski-jump ? Also do you think our LHD will be modified in the future... Because when we look at Navantia'a official's answers he says that " Elevator will be removed and a shutter will be added there " ... So does it mean we can remove that shutter and put an elevator there in the future ?

I don't know. But it's unlikely that the ship would have modernisations.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Well. ski-jump basically makes the LHD into kind of a multi-role amphibious assasult ship. It'll allow the ship to have a shorter time of scramble in case of an alert. It just gives the planes to be airborne faster than VTOL. There seems to be an angled part from outside but it also occupies a huge part inside the ship. Removing the ski-jump was a wise decision. It'll allow the ship to have a larger hangar and a larger flight deal, which means operating more aircraft and being able to have more aircraft on deck.



Of course. In fact, currently US Navy operates F-35Bs at her Wasp-class LHDs whom do not have ski-jumps nor catapults. It has a similar lenght with our LHD. They can use it with both vertical takeoff and traditional takeoff. But they do land vertically. Spain will also replace her Harriers stationed at Juan Carlos with F-35B. If you check the wiki page of JSF. For Turkey it says, Turkey may increase it's orders from 110 to 120, also considering initials orders of 2 aircraft. I believe Navy has plans about F-35B at future.



Of course. It'll bring more operational capabilities at missions



Of course. With the extra square meters to be gained with removing the ski-jump, we can use it for land platforms. DZKK will decide it.



sure man, but it'd just sound weird. If you look at the last post of my "Awesome Military Pictures Thread". You can see a photo that shows, Chinese howitzers similar to our T-155, being operated on the deck of a Chinese destroyer .



depends on the mission.



I don't know. But it's unlikely that the ship would have modernisations.

Great answers thx... As i told i am not expert so i think i felt for the better appearance of our LHD with ski-jump and thought that if our LHD would be with ski-jump it would be better... So thx i am convinced and fell good now...

When it comes land vehicles (wheeled % tracked vehicles) on the deck... Well our new LCTs can carry for 7 tanks at the same time for landing operations... Sure our commanders will decide that but they have a good option to load 10s of tank, land vehicles in possible conditions... By loading them inside the ship + deck...

 

[ANMDT]

So what's your opinions about our LHD which will have no ski-jump ? Also do you think our LHD will be modified in the future... Because when we look at Navantia'a official's answers he says that " Elevator will be removed and a shutter will be added there " ... So does it mean we can remove that shutter and put an elevator there in the future ?

Replacing shutter with elevator will depend on structure on that area, if its designed with a further replacement and modernization concerns , then it can be easily replaced into elevator . its on hands of our engineers (if there is any) cooperating with Navantia

İs there any information about propulsion system ? will it be Podded propeller as Spanish LPD or just a controllable pitch propeller ?

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Replacing shutter with elevator will depend on structure on that area, if its designed with a further replacement and modernization concerns , then it can be easily replaced into elevator . its on hands of our engineers (if there is any) cooperating with Navantia

İs there any information about propulsion system ? will it be Podded propeller as Spanish LPD or just a controllable pitch propeller ?

When i look at S&H, they say Juan Carlos I is the first ship with this size which has electric drive with pods. So i think it will be same about our LHD... There is no negative information S&H gives...

Also when i look at some informations(i think they are SSM's requirements)... Infos about engine and performance is like that >

Max. & Continuous Speed > Atleast 22 knots
Max. Speed Fully Loaded > Atleast 20 knots
Cruise Speed > Atleast 16 knots
Endurance > With Cruise Speed atleast 7.000 nm.

There are some other specs. but i'm lazy about posting them here now. Maybe i can send them tomorrow from S&H...

BTW as you know i gave infos from MSI about our LHD from an interview with Navantia's official...

I saw a difference between S&H and MSI about 1 issue... In MSI Navantia's guy said " There will be no ski-jump in your LHD " but S&H says "Ski-jump issue decision will be made through contract negotiations" but i didn't see any clear source for that info.

So i think MSI's info is correct... Atleast this info is from directly from an official...

You know, so many times we repeated a word about specs. of our LHD > " Let's wait and see "

 

[ANMDT]

When i look at S&H, they say Juan Carlos I is the first ship with this size which has electric drive with pods. So i think it will be same about our LHD... There is no negative information S&H gives...

Also when i look at some informations(i think they are SSM's requirements)... Infos about engine and performance is like that >

Max. & Continuous Speed > Atleast 22 knots
Max. Speed Fully Loaded > Atleast 20 knots
Cruise Speed > Atleast 16 knots
Endurance > With Cruise Speed atleast 7.000 nm.

There are some other specs. but i'm lazy about posting them here now. Maybe i can send them tomorrow from S&H...

BTW as you know i gave infos from MSI about our LHD from an interview with Navantia's official...

I saw a difference between S&H and MSI about 1 issue... In MSI Navantia's guy said " There will be no ski-jump in your LHD " but S&H says "Ski-jump issue decision will be made through contract negotiations" but i didn't see any clear source for that info.

So i think MSI's info is correct... Atleast this info is from directly from an official...

You know, so many times we repeated a word about specs. of our LHD > " Let's wait and see "

As i directly heard someone designed RMK MARIN's LPD/LHD for tender, he told me that there is no ski jump requirement on Naval forces, but i dont know what might be changed since then ?
He also told about some other issues but Desan and Rmk's design were having CPP propellers, expected so for Sedef's but i just had a hope having a sophisticated podded propulsion system on our only LPD.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Will there be F35B on board? any info?

Turkey ordered 16 f36 b variant

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Turkey ordered 16 f36 b variant

I hope so but source?

 

[xenon54 out]

Turkey ordered 16 f36 b variant

I hope so but source?

I think @Neptune told it once if im not wrong.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

I think @Neptune told it once if im not wrong.

I'm also thinking in the same way but i didn't see any clear source comment about this...

Why i am thinking in the same way ? Because in the beginning ordered decleared like 100+16... This +16's info didn't decleared but i think this +16 stands for F-35B... And when you look at unit number of +16 order it fits our need of F-35Bs for our LHD...

Again what we say ?

Let's wait and see...

 

[Kamil_baku]

Ther are some things what i read on the net. The F16 have the problem to ad missile like SOM. The new blocks we dont have the codes so its difficult to program a missile with out the permission of lockheed.

As far i understand the missile have to make a detour to program the missile. Dont ask what or how but its difficult. But it can be fired!

The old terminators are no problem because we have the source codes and old block f16.

So if they are not ready to share source code then we wil say goodby to f35 i think.

Bullshit! in all 240 f16(which upgraded to block 50 version) use turkish systems to control the aircraft.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Questions !!!

What are the advantages and disadvantages of SKI-JUMP on OUR LHD ?

With my limited knowledge... First i ask... Can we operate F-35B on our LHD without that ski-jump ???...

And i am thinking of when there is no ski-jump...There will larger flat area... This look it's good for MORE area for helicopters...

And i think about if we want we can carry more wheeled and tracked vehicles on the deck ? BTW is there anything wrong about carrying land vehicles on the deck ?

Also without ski-jump there will be more area for humanitarian operations...

So what's your opinions about our LHD which will have no ski-jump ? Also do you think our LHD will be modified in the future... Because when we look at Navantia'a official's answers he says that " Elevator will be removed and a shutter will be added there " ... So does it mean we can remove that shutter and put an elevator there in the future ?

Actually ski-jump is for technologically poor countries. Only USA, use steam to accelerate its jets to get out of the Carier and Turkey said they have the same technology, thats why they dot want to use it. Also, Turkey is going to purchase f35 B which they dont need a ski-jump.

 

[Neptune]

Actually ski-jump is for technologically poor countries. Only USA, use steam to accelerate its jets to get out of the Carier and Turkey said they have the same technology, thats why they dot want to use it. Also, Turkey is going to purchase f35 B which they dont need a ski-jump.

Are kidding me???? UK SPAİN ITALY are one of very few navies with blue-water-capabilities. That was just one of the most stupid posts I've ever read, no Offence.