Turkish general elections 2015 updates and final result.

[LegionnairE]

No, we do know that.

Qur'an, which was already accepted by the word of God and Muhammad to be the last prophet, could not have been changed by anyone because original scribes of Qur'an and original believers of Muhammad were still alive and they were the one's who 'standardized' Qur'an (Uthmanic Qur'an). Any change in Qur'an would have led to massive upheaval amongst the believers who saw Qur'an as last/final word of God and Muhammad (SAW) to be last prophet.

Qur'an of today is Qur'an of Muhammad, literally. You can believe it to be work of GOD or work of Muhammad..its upto you.

And I agree with you. Religion needs to be moderately taken by society. Focussing solely on religion without other considerations is stupid (like lots of Muslims do in Muslim World).

I think that's a pretty big assumption bro... how do you know changing Kuran was as big a taboo as it is today?

more to the point, the book itself isn't consistent in it's storytelling perspective... some verses are written from god's perspective and some others that aren't.

For example it says somewhere "we created the mountains" than it says somewhere else "your god spoke to honey bees" than it says somewhere "may god give them terror" or something like that... again I'm roughly translating from Turkish. But this indicates to me that it was written and edited by multiple people and certain parts have been changed.

 

[telkon]

It's the same thing to be frank. Islam is an arab mythology and ideology built on jewish beliefs and customs.

all religions and beliefs stem from some pot smoking dudes who lived 100k years ago

 

[LegionnairE]

View attachment 271190

all religions and beliefs stem from some pot smoking dudes who lived 100k years ago

they fvcked up at the end by including scientific method and quantum mechanics

 

[Oublious]

Lets not put atheisten in the ground, we can match your skills with mathematics and physics. Simple proof how dumb you end with Causul argument, you are not the first and the last atheist who will be fuked up.

 

[LegionnairE]

Lets not put atheisten in the ground, we can match your skills with mathematics and physics. Simple proof how dumb you end with Causul argument, you are not the first and the last atheist who will be fuked up.

Learn english first buddy, you can barely express yourself.

Then we can talk about physics and mathematics if you're interested.

 

[AUz]

I think that's a pretty big assumption bro... how do you know changing Kuran was as big a taboo as it is today?

Not an assumption.

Scholars working in the field (non-Muslims too) agree to the fact that Qur'an of today is Qur'an of Muhammad. And c'mon, its not an assumption that people believed Qur'an to be the unchangeable, last word of God. Its a indepedendtly attested fact of history And since they believed that, they would not have allowed to change anything in Qur'an SINCE they believed strictly that any change was blasphemy.

For example it says somewhere "we created the mountains" than it says somewhere else "your god spoke to honey bees" than it says somewhere "may god give them terror" or something like that... again I'm roughly translating from Turkish. But this indicates to me that it was written and edited by multiple people and certain parts have been changed.

lol, That's how classical Arabic is written. Its not an issue.

Even in Urdu, my language, same author writes a book where he uses various writing styles but the core message stays somewhat similar.

Qur'an is weird in a sense that its not a story (like bible) and its not chronological.

 

[LegionnairE]

@AUz if we can't reform religion in any way.. and talking of reform is talking of heresy

Then only way that is left for us to advance is to get rid of religion brother.

For the reasons I've stated in this thread that got me banned.
I don't want to state them and get banned again but you can go two pages back and see what I'm talking about.

 

[telkon]

they fvcked up at the end by including scientific method and quantum mechanics

quantum is a religion for some. especially for chicks from non-engineering, art/literature related fields LOL

 

[LegionnairE]

quantum is a religion for some. especially for chicks from non-engineering, art/literature related fields LOL

that's the longest description of stupidity I've ever heard

you must've seen some shit

 

[telkon]

that's the longest description of stupidity I've ever heard

you must've seen some shit

bir gün karşılaşırsak anlatırım

 

[Ahiska]

Please while i dont like Islamists im a muslim and value my Muslim identity and religion.
Insults and disrespect of Islam is not really a nice way of communicating with most Muslims.

 

[LegionnairE]

bir gün karşılaşırsak anlatırım

I look forward to that

Please while i dont like Islamists im a muslim and value my Muslim identity and religion.
Insults and disrespect of Islam is not really a nice way of communicating with most Muslims.

bro, as I've explained before, I have no intention of disrespecting or insulting you.
If anything I'm trying to help you. I hope I don't sound condescending when I say this.

I want the best for my country. I want my brothers and sisters to advance the human civilization.
I want great things for you.

 

[kalu_miah]

Organized religion with a shared sense of "mythology" and belief systems is important to unite communities which are ethno-linguistically diverse and thus create a larger community. In any given situation size of a group is very important for any group to survive and win in competition against other groups. I have my own set of theories on this topic:

1. Historical Continuity Hypothesis
kalu_miah's new world order, a road map for the future | Page 8
Path dependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (related concept)
2. Large Systems Hypothesis
kalu_miah's new world order, a road map for the future | Page 8

Communism inspired atheism failed and former communists are again going back to their previous religions. So religion actually has a vital role in social evolution. So it is impractical and impossible to discard religion, rather the best option is to find ways to shape religion in such a way so it can benefit society and help social evolution, development and advancement. This is what I attempt to do in this thread:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)

There is a third part of my set of theories, it is about genetics, but it is difficult to discuss in a politically correct way. Also I think discussions on genetics are generally banned in this forum.

 

[LegionnairE]

@kalu_miah of course religion played an important role in our social evolution... nobody's denying that. The idea of an abstract god was an advancement in thinking 3500+ years ago. In my opinion the ability to form abstract thoughts was a mental advancement for our species so I'm inclined to agree with that part. But as you can see I'm talking in past tense. as we lost certain organs in our biological evolution, it's time we lose religion in our social evolution.

I hope google translate provides some half decent subtitles here:

in this video professor Celal Şengör explains that historically there are two roles of religion in society. The first one is explaining the nature, and we all know religion has become obsolete at that. And the second one is providing social order. And we can see how obsolete religion has become by looking at countries that are ruled by sharia and the social order is provided by religion. Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran...

In my world view I see religion as a dividing force instead of a uniting one. Because religion always has a tendency to form into smaller and smaller sects.

In Turkey we have "faculties of divinity" in our universities and there are proffessors who devoted their lives to religion. And when you put these guys together you see that they can't agree on a verse of Kuran. It's maddening, and since it's impossible to ask god "what did you really mean by this?" people just settle their differences in violence. It's counter productive.

I still think that rising of christianity has played a bigger role in the collapse of the Roman empire than the barbarian hordes coming at them.

 

[AUz]

@AUz if we can't reform religion in any way.. and talking of reform is talking of heresy

Then only way that is left for us to advance is to get rid of religion brother.

For the reasons I've stated in this thread that got me banned.
I don't want to state them and get banned again but you can go two pages back and see what I'm talking about.

We can reform religion. Turkish Dinayat did reforms

We can teach a better, more sophisticated understanding of Islam to future generations. It would be a challenge though..