Turkish constitutional referendum 2017 - News, Update & Discussion

[blondeturkish]

erdogan is not as popular as he might think. three of the largest cities have voted against him.

 

[Luffy 500]

so what if Yes win? Do this mean there will be no PMship in future.. Or semi presidential like France?

Yes, NO PM ship. The PM post is to be abolished similar to latin america and USA. The changes reportedly would take effect in 2019 giving erdogan room to possible rule till 2029.

Btw in the french semipresidential system the president is very very strong btw. The french president can dissolve parliament without any consequences unlike in the Proposed constitutional changes in Turkey.

 

[HannibalBarca]

It's "Almost a win" ..; at this stage.
Or If they are able to find 1.5Mil more NO voters...

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

I understand..; but I want to push you view...

Let's say you have a new country. ANd you want to impose meritocracy. Ok

THen How & Who will you choose ? ...
ofc you WILL not choose... it's ...How will it happen I meant

It happens organically. All forms of government develop organically and over time, including democracies. All countries start out autocratic at first, and then undergo organic changes that liberalize/reform the political system.

Let's say you establish a country. This means that you're technically the most powerful person in that country, so you'll get to decide how the country develops. But if you want your country to survive, then you must do trade with other countries. That means you must have a free and open economy, otherwise your country will not survive. But in order to survive economically, your country must enjoy economic freedom. But economic freedom doesn't come alone (it doesn't come without a price). In order to sustain economic freedom in your country, you must either develop a meritocratic or democratic form of government. Only meritocracies (e.g. Dubai) or democracies (e.g. Australia) can sustain economic freedom. No other form of government can do that. So it's the opening up of a country's economy that leads to either the development of meritocracy or democracy, or both. Some countries have both systems, such as Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia and South Korea.

If you don't open up your economy, your country won't develop anyway. It'll most likely become a failed state in the long term.

 

[blondeturkish]

so what if Yes win?

Does this mean there will be no PMship in future.. Or semi presidential like France?

it is going to be more like putin Russia full dictatorship.

 

[hussain0216]

A great day!!!

 

[tesla]

so what if Yes win?

Does this mean there will be no PMship in future.. Or semi presidential like France?

not semi presidental system more likely american type presidental system but erdogan said we will bring turk type presidental system everybody says thar it is sultanate system

 

[Max]

it is going to be more like putin Russia full dictatorship.

Putin have Medvadov or whatever his name is as PM. So you are referring to Semi Presidential like France. I think French PM is rubber stamp too, only President matter. @luffy

 

[Luffy 500]

it is going to be more like putin Russia full dictatorship.

Putin is a low life bastard scumbag. But he is elected by the russian people. Its not necessary that people become dictator the moment they do NOT meet western expectations.

Putin have Medvadov or whatever his name is as PM. So you are referring to Semi Presidential like France. I think French PM is rubber stamp too, only President matter. @luffy

Russia is semi-presidential in name only. The Russian presidency arguably has more power than both US, French OR Turkish proposed presidency. RUssian PM is just a rubber stamp. But nonetheless its an elected position.

The French presidency is a bit weaker than RUssian one. But it truly is a semi-presidential system. In France If the Presidents party do NOT get majority in parliament he is forced to choose a PM from opposition in which case the PM has control over domestic policy and President has control over Foreign, national defence & security. This is what the French call cohabition which after French constitutional amendment in 2000 is extremely unlikely because Presidential and parliamentary election take place at the same time. And the French electoral system also make cohabition difficult. And ultimately The french president has the power to dissolve parliament to call for new elections. SO in a nutshell the French system by default favors a strong president even though it has a PM with considerable theoretical powers.

I wish countries like BD and Pakistan had either semi-residency or presidential system that favors strong presidents who would need to appeal to a large segment of population to elected. At least secular liberals or western lackeys won't get elected by such system in Muslim countries.

 

[blondeturkish]

Putin have Medvadov or whatever his name is as PM. So you are reffering to Semi Presidential like France. I think French PM is rubber stamp too, only President matter.

this is an erdogan system which means he will bring whatever he see fit, he could be like france. he could be like Russia or Iran.

 

[HannibalBarca]

It happens organically. All forms of government develop organically and over time, including democracies. All countries start out autocratic at first, and then undergo organic changes that liberalize/reform the political system.

Let's say you establish a country. This means that you're technically the most powerful person in that country, so you'll get to decide how the country develops. But if you want your country to survive, then you must do trade with other countries. That means you must have a free and open economy, otherwise your country will not survive. But in order to survive economically, your country must enjoy economic freedom. But economic freedom doesn't come alone (it doesn't come without a price). In order to sustain economic freedom in your country, you must either develop a meritocratic or democratic form of government. Only meritocracies (e.g. Dubai) or democracies (e.g. Australia) can sustain economic freedom. No other form of government can do that. So it's the opening up of a country's economy that leads to either the development of meritocracy or democracy, or both. Some countries have both systems, such as Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia and South Korea.

If you don't open up your economy, your country won't develop anyway. It'll most likely become a failed state in the long term.

So in the END that "first" person will not be choosed by being the BEST, but by being the ONE WHO TOOK THE JOB, whatever by tactics or by force.

ANd as for DUbai, it has meritocracy but it's still a monarchy... Meaning that Meritocracy will survive ONLY if the one at the top decide to stay in that road... .

I don't know if you understood my view... but Meritocracy couldn't be a way to govern, but a way to organize a hierachy for X purpose.

 

[BHarwana]

LOL

Democracy has defeated Democracy

 

[tesla]

i think nobody know the system except erdogan lets wait and see what will happen

 

[Max]

not semi presidental system more likely american type presidental system but erdogan said we will bring turk type presidental system everybody says thar it is sultanate system

wish best of luck, it does not matter whether you have Parliamentary, Semi Presidential or Presidential even sultanate, more important think is Independent Judiciary and freedom of speech.

 

[BHarwana]

i think nobody know the system except erdogan lets wait and see what will happen

AA we know the system very well in Pakistan.

President Erdogan just became President Musharaf