Turkish Commander Checks Out JF-17 C

[alphapak]

And China didn't even sell the J-31 to their long term partner Pakistan. Why should they sell it to Turkey? a NATO country?

Pak has not asked for 5th gen jet from China yet as India doesn't have 5th gen jet. As soon
as Pak asks China for it, they will defo give it.

 

[LegionnairE]

Pak has not asked for 5th gen jet from China yet as India doesn't have 5th gen jet. As soon
as Pak asks China for it, they will defo give it.

Why wait for India to have it?

 

[lightning F57]

Im scratching my head here thinking what happened to the Turkish commander checking out the Jf17

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Pak has not asked for 5th gen jet from China yet as India doesn't have 5th gen jet. As soon
as Pak asks China for it, they will defo give it.

J35 project is also not completed we should wait few more years for j35 to complete

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

You realize we're developing the TFX Kaan with American engines right? We're developing Hürjet with the American F404 with no alternative engine development in sight. We can't cut ties with NATO.

Money is our real problem.. Between 2018 and 2020, we entered an adventure that started with the Afrin operation and ended with liberation of Karabakh, and although we achieved strategic gains, we ran out of breath when the Turkish economy finished.. We are just maintaining our position now.

About playing our hand correctly, We are realy bad on that, Just last Israel cursing from Erdogan will return us back in the EastMed region and all that Arabs including Palestinians will also support Greeks-Israelis just like last time..

I never have doubt in our army and defence industry but most of the time Erdogan give more damage to us than İsraeli F35 or Greek Rafale.

Right now, Turkey is in the middle, it cannot openly get any sort of partnership / collaboration or equipment from China and Russia. (After S400s, I think Turkey has restrained itself, which btw Turkey purchased AFTER it was rejected equivalent systems from the west). and on the other hand its being treated as an outsider by the US / NATO. Greece is getting F-16 block 72s upgrades, it will get F-35 soon, it already has Rafales.

IMO, Turkey is in the stage where it should not fear US / NATO anymore. the most damage that US/NATO could do is already done by kicking Turkey out of F-35 program. Its US / NATO that needs Turkey to be at their side, They are using Turkish geo-strategic location every day of its existence. The strategic location of Turkey is the most important. Door step of Europe, Mediterranean / Black sea, critical trade routes, proximity to Israel / middle-east. Imagine if Russia / China fleet doing war exercises with Turkish navy in these areas. So, Turkey needs to understand its worth. It is not the Turkey that needs US & NATO. It is other way around. NATO cannot afford largest standing army at door step of Europe to join Russia / China camp.

And Turkey really don't need to officially join Russia / China camp. If NATO can kick turks out of critical weapon programs anytime then Turkey must not become dependent on US engines, who knows they pull the strings at the wrong time. The SU-57 / J-20 uses same thrust engines, AL-41, WS-10 kind of engines can be used if US put embargoes on their own engines. For Hurjet again there are several alternatives present. US engines are not the end of the world. Turkey needs to take decisions for its defense needs, for its national sovereignty. BTW, US already knows that if they put embargoes on engines, there are options where they don't want Turkey to go to. So, Turkey shouldn't really worry on pleasing the americans and take decisions whats best in its own interests. If there is no counter strategy for Rafales, F-16 block 72s then opting for Chinese fighter jet will only benefit Turkey for its own defence, for its own independence. NATO will not kick it out just because of that. Turkey has much more importance to NATO.

BTW, NATO wasn't even designed to counter China. There are many european countries who realize they have no enmity with China and keeping great relations with China are in their national interests. They are slowly and gradually getting away from US hegemonic policies.

 

[alphapak]

Why wait for India to have it?

Pakistan's biggest problem is their economy after the traitors done the
regime change operation.

 

[Flotilla]

And Turkey really don't need to officially join Russia / China camp. If NATO can kick turks out of critical weapon programs anytime then Turkey must not become dependent on US engines, who knows they pull the strings at the wrong time. The SU-57 / J-20 uses same thrust engines, AL-41, WS-10 kind of engines can be used if US put embargoes on their own engines. For Hurjet again there are several alternatives present. US engines are not the end of the world. Turkey needs to take decisions for its defense needs, for its national sovereignty. BTW, US already knows that if they put embargoes on engines, there are options where they don't want Turkey to go to. So, Turkey shouldn't really worry on pleasing the americans and take decisions whats best in its own interests. If there is no counter strategy for Rafales, F-16 block 72s then opting for Chinese fighter jet will only benefit Turkey for its own defence, for its own independence. NATO will not kick it out just because of that. Turkey has much more importance to NATO.

CAATSA sanctions will avoid it.
Only real alternative would be China. Nothing more out of there.

BTW, NATO wasn't even designed to counter China. There are many european countries who realize they have no enmity with China and keeping great relations with China are in their national interests. They are slowly and gradually getting away from US hegemonic policies.

Agreed. USA is in the verge of loosing hegemony I would sentence. It would take 5 or 10 years. But repeatdly mistakes from US governments are speeding up this withdrawal.

 

[Silicon0000]

Any Air to Air missile engagement beyond 100 km need serious luck and foolishness from opponent otherwise its practically useless. There are other things which are important than higher ranges.

 

[Trisolaran]

Right now, Turkey is in the middle, it cannot openly get any sort of partnership / collaboration or equipment from China and Russia. (After S400s, I think Turkey has restrained itself, which btw Turkey purchased AFTER it was rejected equivalent systems from the west). and on the other hand its being treated as an outsider by the US / NATO. Greece is getting F-16 block 72s upgrades, it will get F-35 soon, it already has Rafales.

IMO, Turkey is in the stage where it should not fear US / NATO anymore. the most damage that US/NATO could do is already done by kicking Turkey out of F-35 program. Its US / NATO that needs Turkey to be at their side, They are using Turkish geo-strategic location every day of its existence. The strategic location of Turkey is the most important. Door step of Europe, Mediterranean / Black sea, critical trade routes, proximity to Israel / middle-east. Imagine if Russia / China fleet doing war exercises with Turkish navy in these areas. So, Turkey needs to understand its worth. It is not the Turkey that needs US & NATO. It is other way around. NATO cannot afford largest standing army at door step of Europe to join Russia / China camp.

And Turkey really don't need to officially join Russia / China camp. If NATO can kick turks out of critical weapon programs anytime then Turkey must not become dependent on US engines, who knows they pull the strings at the wrong time. The SU-57 / J-20 uses same thrust engines, AL-41, WS-10 kind of engines can be used if US put embargoes on their own engines. For Hurjet again there are several alternatives present. US engines are not the end of the world. Turkey needs to take decisions for its defense needs, for its national sovereignty. BTW, US already knows that if they put embargoes on engines, there are options where they don't want Turkey to go to. So, Turkey shouldn't really worry on pleasing the americans and take decisions whats best in its own interests. If there is no counter strategy for Rafales, F-16 block 72s then opting for Chinese fighter jet will only benefit Turkey for its own defence, for its own independence. NATO will not kick it out just because of that. Turkey has much more importance to NATO.

BTW, NATO wasn't even designed to counter China. There are many european countries who realize they have no enmity with China and keeping great relations with China are in their national interests. They are slowly and gradually getting away from US hegemonic policies.

You know how there is always an unwanted guy in the group, but other group members keep himin the group because of his connections. Thats how NATO-Turkish relations work, They need us because we have something they realy need and we need them because they tolerate our foreign policy in the middle east and east med.. If we realy leave NATO they will accept Cyprus into NATO ın the first day and they will send hundreds of jets to Aegan sea to support Greek claims.. So ıt will hurt Americans and Europeans ıf we leave NATO but we will also get hurt realy bad and because of this we are tolerating each others.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

All the best to "Turkiye" I heard they prefer this pronunciation to Turkey
The KAAN project will be certainly more advance then JF17-Block III For Sure

The denial of F-35 To Turkey , just shows , that USA wants Turkey to fall behind technologically vs Israel , such technological embargoes were set place on Syria/Iraq

We all know what happened to these two nations between 2005-2014


Turkiye : 0.50 Generation behind world best craft
Saudia : 0.50 Generation behind world best craft
Pakistan : 0.75 Generation behind world best craft
Egypt : 1.0 Generation behind world best craft
Iran : 1.50 Generation behind world best craft
Iraq : 1.50 Generation behind world best craft
Syria : 1.50 Generation behind world best craft (Almost defunc)
Jordan : 1.0 Generation behind world best craft (Low plane count)

Pakistan will have to retire all Mirage and F7 craft in order to be bit more modern like Turkiye/Saudi Arabia

 

[TheSolution]

All the best to "Turkiye" I heard they prefer this pronunciation to Turkey
The KAAN project will be certainly more advance then JF17-Block III For Sure

The denial of F-35 To Turkey , just shows , that USA wants Turkey to fall behind technologically vs Israel , such technological embargoes were set place on Syria/Iraq

We all know what happened to these two nations between 2005-2014


Turkiye : 0.50 Generation behind world best craft
Saudia : 0.50 Generation behind world best craft
Pakistan : 0.75 Generation behind world best craft
Egypt : 1.0 Generation behind world best craft
Iran : 1.50 Generation behind world best craft
Iraq : 1.50 Generation behind world best craft
Syria : 1.50 Generation behind world best craft (Almost defunc)
Jordan : 1.0 Generation behind world best craft (Low plane count)

Pakistan will have to retire all Mirage and F7 craft in order to be bit more modern like Turkiye/Saudi Arabia

6th gen will be here by the time Turkey has a full 5th gen

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I am sure Authorities in Turkiye are taking the upgrade of their Airforce much more seriously then Pakistan

Pakistan's upgrade has slowed down since 2014

 

[MastanKhan]

I am sure Authorities in Turkiye are taking the upgrade of their Airforce much more seriously then Pakistan

Pakistan's upgrade has slowed down since 2014

Hi,

well---here is a different analysis---.

It has reached the needed plateau---with almost 60 + aesa equipped aircraft & other goodies---an extremely capable offensive capability---I am surprised you would say that---.

The air force need 2.5-3 pilot ratio ready per aircraft-and to switch it from conventional radar to an aesa radar equipped machine is a herculian task in itself---.

Can't have second rate pilots flying a 1st +++ rate machine---.

Integration is a monstrous task---. Just look back and read about the F-35 integration period---. There was a time that critics had lambasted it to kingdom come---. Now after 15 +++ years of integration---it has become the deadliest of the aircraft in the air and an aircraft of choice for any air force that can live under the threat of " kill switches".