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Turkish-Armenian scribe sentenced to 13 months for blasphemy in blog post

1. I have come to to conclusion that countries without Islam are on average more underdeveloped than others. That's just my opinion please don't sue me, not you Bronze_Plaque.

I think you mean more developed...Anyhow, this "Islamic Countries are more underdeveloped than the rest of the world" phenomenon, despite there is some true in it, is just not %100 correct..Latin America countries would be a good example...Furthermore almost all of the Muslim countries won their freedom from the colonial powers after the World War II, but they did not or could not concentrate on leadership development, they needed for their future. Consequently, due to poor leadership and management and lack of good governance they have been making less progress. It is not destiny but self imposed poverty..Can you name one good leader besides Ataturk on the course of Republican era in Turkey? May be Ecevit at some level but thats it and we are supposed to be the most advanced Muslim Country... I respect your opinion and i know your heart is in right place but "It's Islam. Its in its nature to destroy anything that is free" expression is a bit far-fetched..As a Muslim, i am offended by this statement

2. How many mosques does the average Turkish city have? 100m should be enough to make sure that certain areas like streets around Istiklal Caddesi in Istanbul will be alcohol free soon, you think thats justifiable?

- İbadethane ve eğitim kurumlarına 100 metre yasağı, mevcut turizm belgeli işletmeler ile kazanılmış hakları kapsamayacak. Yasadan önce ruhsat almış işletmeler için bunlar 'müktesep hak(meaning vested/acquired right)' sayılacak.
There are hundreds if not thousands of Tekel Bayii and restaurants/bars in Istiklal Street atm...They wont be touched...This law applies to new establishments in consideration..So dont worry..If you happen to come to Istanbul soon, first beers on me mate :cheers:

Enjoy it while it lasts. One way or the other the AKP is trying to enforce its way of life to the Turkish people: higher taxes on alcohol and tobacco, tobacco (and the coming alcohol) ban, jailing people for blasphemy, the planned and (no pun intended) aborted abortion laws. If you don't see a pattern here mate, I cant help you.

Mate i hear you and share the same concerns..I just dont see it happening..Its just not easy to shift the governing system one from another...Needs an overwhelming public support...With %51 AKP votes, its impossible...And dont think those %51 all is in favor for Sharia
 
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Gul is the second man of Erdogan,Erdogan dictates Gul does.
Even though he looks moderate,he cant decide things on his own.
Its like Putin and Medvedev,there will be no change in my opinion(same school).
But who knows,maybe im wrong.
The opposition?
There is none,they only shout at whats wrong but solutions none as usual.
We need some one who can get the masses behind him/her,without as BRONZEPLAQUE nicely pointed out buying them with food.
 
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i didnt know that this BS takes place in turkey too..:rolleyes:
 
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There is a difference between an educated debate and malicious slander.

Scum like this guy and anyone who maliciously insults Islam need to know their actions will not be tolerated.

Good move by Turkey.

Islamic Al-Andalus was technologically ahead of the rest of Europe by 700 years with lit streets, running water and paved roads with a functioning and prosperous multicultural citizenry. Ancient Baghdad under Islamic rule was the center of learning for the world. The Mughal Empire was technologically on par with Britain. Asia and the Middle East (including N. Africa) were always more prosperous than Europe so what changed?

The problem is that the more Muslim nations stray from Islam the worse our economic situations get. Another reason for the problems the Muslim and non-Muslim world face is the result of colonization/occupation by Europeans and their policy of deindustrialization in support of procuring cheap/slave labor and raw materials from the nations they invaded.

Islam is the answer the problem has always been those who have always been opposed to it.
 
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I think you mean more developed...Anyhow, this "Islamic Countries are more underdeveloped than the rest of the world" phenomenon, despite there is some true in it, is just not %100 correct..Latin America countries would be a good example...Furthermore almost all of the Muslim countries won their freedom from the colonial powers after the World War II, but they did not or could not concentrate on leadership development, they needed for their future. Consequently, due to poor leadership and management and lack of good governance they have been making less progress. It is not destiny but self imposed poverty..Can you name one good leader besides Ataturk on the course of Republican era in Turkey? May be Ecevit at some level but thats it and we are supposed to be the most advanced Muslim Country... I respect your opinion and i know your heart is in right place but "It's Islam. Its in its nature to destroy anything that is free" expression is a bit far-fetched..As a Muslim, i am offended by this statement

At least you didn't sue me :D
News like these get my blood boiling and even if it offends you I sometimes think that Islam plays its part in there and education. Education is the key to a developed Muslim world, science and freedom of expression thats the way to go. We don't have both in any Muslim country (exceptions maybe the ex-Soviet Muslim countries Albania and the Azeris).



- İbadethane ve eğitim kurumlarına 100 metre yasağı, mevcut turizm belgeli işletmeler ile kazanılmış hakları kapsamayacak. Yasadan önce ruhsat almış işletmeler için bunlar 'müktesep hak(meaning vested/acquired right)' sayılacak.
There are hundreds if not thousands of Tekel Bayii and restaurants/bars in Istiklal Street atm...They wont be touched...This law applies to new establishments in consideration..So dont worry..If you happen to come to Istanbul soon, first beers on me mate :cheers:


What about cities like my hometown that don't have any touristic attractions and tons of mosques? There wont be a single place to have a beer.

I will come back to your offer. Btw its a shame that you can't sit outside in many of those areas anymore.


Mate i hear you and share the same concerns..I just dont see it happening..Its just not easy to shift the governing system one from another...Needs an overwhelming public support...With %51 AKP votes, its impossible...And dont think those %51 all is in favor for Sharia

Let's hope so, I might be a bit pessimistic but I'm scared that the country I plan to move "back" my big dream will be shattered by the time I graduate. Plan B and C are Azerbaijan and Turkish Cyprus :D
 
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Islam is not the answer for Politics, EVER.

What are you basing your opinion on?

Democracy itself is inherently evil which is why the US declared itself a Republic with checks and balances meant to try and control the threat the majority pose.

In a Democracy the majority can decide whatever they want and the minority have to follow. Something as ridiculous sounding to western cultures as it being legal to detain people wearing pink shirts can become a law in a democracy.

Unfortunately, the problem with modern Republics is that they employ a democratic system of governance where the majority elects in individuals that have the ability to alter the Constitution to suit their beliefs. Thus, no one is guaranteed security or prosperity. Furthermore, how are unlearned people supposed to elect responsible/learned politicians? Winston Churchill once said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

The Islamic Republic is superior to any other form of governance around the only issue is that even those countries that refer to themselves as one aren't acting the part. The Quran and Sunnah cannot be altered nor will anyone in the Muslim world permit such an act. Thus, laws based on it's teachings are permanent from government to government which means all peoples have full understanding of what the laws are without fear of ever having to loose rights they are guaranteed and those who disagree with the rules are then able to move on with their lives whether it be outside of the Islamic Republic or within it.

There are a lot of misconceptions about Sharia in general propagated by individuals not only with little to no understanding of it but many who actually outright lie about it's teachings. I won't go over any in specific details because of an aversion from turning this into a theological debate/essay but it is clear that all nations, Muslim nations in particular, need a break from western models of governance which were largely imposed on various nations via colonization/occupation. The current models of governance aren't working in the very nations that are adamantly promoting the idea like the US or Australia while other nations like Canada (a constitutional monarchy) or groups of nations like the European Union aren't even democracies at all.
 
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The Islamic Republic is superior to any other form of governance around the only issue is that even those countries that refer to themselves as one aren't acting the part. The Quran and Sunnah cannot be altered nor will anyone in the Muslim world permit such an act. Thus, laws based on it's teachings are permanent from government to government which means all peoples have full understanding of what the laws are without fear of ever having to loose rights they are guaranteed and those who disagree with the rules are then able to move on with their lives whether it be outside of the Islamic Republic or within it.
You asked me on what i am basing my opinion, but the problem is, religious people and with that i mean people who dont want a secular state/democracy, will never accept the opinions of others (example: you). Why? Because God is the answer to everything and a country should be ruled by Islam, ALLAH AKBAR.
What if youre atheist, secular, christian, jew etc. etc. and you dont want to live under Sharia law/Islamic Ruling? It doesnt work because it only favors a select group of people and anyone who disagrees will have to shut up and cant do anything about it.
That said, I would rather die than live in a country ruled by Sharia law and i know that alot of people think the same.
 
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Education is the key to a developed Muslim world, science and freedom of expression thats the way to go

I agree with you in regards to education being important for the development of the Muslim world. There are hadiths but also Muslim history in general has demonstrated this to be of fundamental importance.

However, there is no such thing as absolute "freedom of expression" and to demonstrate that you need look no further than the EU and various that make denying the "holocaust" illegal. Furthermore, there are a host of laws in virtually every country criminalizing activities/speech that incite rebellion or hatred not to mention defamation laws to protect individuals from unwanted slander. Thus, blasphemy laws are much the same and enacted in Muslim nations to protect what we cherish from malicious slander. Muslims have always open for theological debates (ex. Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat, Yusuf Estes, etc...) which I even encourage since they were what really got me into Islam.

There is this war being waged by kafir's to get Muslims to denounce our faith/cultures and those Muslims who fight for our nations/peoples while at the same time applaud the aggressors who murder our own and occupy our homelands.
 
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I agree with you in regards to education being important for the development of the Muslim world. There are hadiths but also Muslim history in general has demonstrated this to be of fundamental importance.

However, there is no such thing as absolute "freedom of expression" and to demonstrate that you need look no further than the EU and various that make denying the "holocaust" illegal. Furthermore, there are a host of laws in virtually every country criminalizing activities/speech that incite rebellion or hatred not to mention defamation laws to protect individuals from unwanted slander. Thus, blasphemy laws are much the same and enacted in Muslim nations to protect what we cherish from malicious slander. Muslims have always open for theological debates (ex. Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat, Yusuf Estes, etc...) which I even encourage since they were what really got me into Islam.

There is this war being waged by kafir's to get Muslims to denounce our faith/cultures and those Muslims who fight for our nations/peoples while at the same time applaud the aggressors who murder our own and occupy our homelands.
I think when muslim kingdoms did the same to people of other faiths they werent really pleased with it.
And no a blasphemy law is not like the holocaust law.
Everyone knows that the holocaust happened but not everyone believes in islam you cannot sentence someone to death because he dont agree with you.
Blasphemy law and sharia make the muslim countries weak and powerless we must use education to become strong you will not become the strongest when you pray at home and beat up people because they dont see it like you.
 
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Living by the ‘de jure’ sword

BURAK BEKDİL
burak.bekdil@hurriyet.com.tr

Islamists often – but not always – come in two flavors: Those who would decapitate an infidel, take out his heart and eat it in front of cameras, like the “freedom fighter” in Syria; and those who have the same sentiments and goals but pursue smarter means to Islamize the whole universe, including “lesser Muslims,” through “de jure” methods. The most preferred de jure methodology is “majoritarianism.”

Turkey is the world’s best example of how smartly smarter Islamists function – and how de jure!
On April 15, 2013, the world-renowned Turkish pianist Fazıl Say was sentenced to a 10-month suspended prison sentence for tweeting and retweeting words that some Muslims, all Islamists and “independent” judges thought insulted Muslims and their faith.

A couple of days ago, Turkish-Armenian linguist and former columnist Sevan Nişanyan was condemned to 13 months in prison (not suspended) for alleged blasphemy against Muslims in a blog comment.

Mr. Nişanyan’s “Hrant Dink-style” conviction came on the same day a parliamentary commission, with the majority of votes from the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) deputies, passed new restrictions on the sale and consumption of alcohol, the Islamists’ nemesis beverage.

As this column was written, the lawyer and women’s rights activist Canan Arın was awaiting trial which could put her in jail for five years because, in a conference speech on “child brides,” she had criticized the Prophet Muhammad for marrying, according to some accounts, a 9-year-old, and President Abdullah Gül, for marrying, according to official accounts, a 15-year-old. Mrs. Arın has been prosecuted for “denigrating the values embraced by all or a part of the society,” and for “insulting the president.”

Ironically, this trial takes place in a country where the government, in rhetoric, has launched a campaign against child brides. Turkey looks like a lost soul: Marrying a 15-year-old girl is normal but the government fights underage marriages and an activist who criticizes child marriages faces a five-year prison sentence!

Fortunately, criticizing rape or sexual harassment has not yet fallen into the catalogue of crimes under the heading “denigrating the values embraced by all or a part of the society,” since Turkish criminal statistics show that quite a number of Turks have embraced both as their values.

Only a few weeks before the inflow of “halal courtroom news,” a Turkish sociologist had likened atheism to autism, not because both words start with an “a” and end with the suffix “ism,” but because he believed that autistic children cannot go to heaven. The professor, who happens to be the chairman of an association that should provide care and education for autistic children, even proudly unveiled his plans to provide therapy for autistic children “so that they could become faithful children.” In a saner country, of course, the sociologist would have been forced to have therapy “so that he could become a saner scientist” – if not arrested for child abuse.

And three days ago, Mahmut Macit, a senior member of AKP’s Ankara provincial board, flared up about insults against believers with a tweet that read: “My blood boils when spineless psychopaths pretending to be atheists swear at my religion. These raped types should be annihilated.”

Mr. Macit probably falls into the third category of Islamists: Those Islamists who officially belong to the second category but cannot hide their true sentiments that they actually belong to the first category.
You may dislike Mr. Macit, or condemn him for his remarks which no prosecutor will think “denigrate the values embraced by all or a part of the society.” But at least you must thank him for being honest while his second-category peers quietly praise him, even while publicly denouncing him.

May/24/2013

BURAK BEKDİL - Living by the ‘de jure’ sword
 
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The problem is that the more Muslim nations stray from Islam the worse our economic situations get.

Really? Funny last time i checked countries like Turkiye , Malaysia or Indonesia were doing quite well while staying away from Islamism and not possesing any natural resources unlike their Middle-Eastern counterparts.
 
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Topic was armenian ase insulting muslims. Yet he did it again! So lets wait what wil happen.
 
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I agree with you in regards to education being important for the development of the Muslim world. There are hadiths but also Muslim history in general has demonstrated this to be of fundamental importance.

However, there is no such thing as absolute "freedom of expression" and to demonstrate that you need look no further than the EU and various that make denying the "holocaust" illegal. Furthermore, there are a host of laws in virtually every country criminalizing activities/speech that incite rebellion or hatred not to mention defamation laws to protect individuals from unwanted slander. Thus, blasphemy laws are much the same and enacted in Muslim nations to protect what we cherish from malicious slander. Muslims have always open for theological debates (ex. Zakir Naik, Ahmed Deedat, Yusuf Estes, etc...) which I even encourage since they were what really got me into Islam.

There is this war being waged by kafir's to get Muslims to denounce our faith/cultures and those Muslims who fight for our nations/peoples while at the same time applaud the aggressors who murder our own and occupy our homelands.

You will never get into jail for denying the Holocaust in Germany, but you will get a fine and pay. You also won't go to jail because of blasphemy, probably won't even get a fine.

I wont even argue with you about freedom of speech, without a doubt you have more freedom here in Europe then in large parts of the Muslim world.

You will probably be stabbed the moment you say you're an atheist in the streets of many Muslim countries. In Germany no will care, in Poland people might be outraged, in Karachi you probably get stabbed. Its not only the laws, its the people too. Backwardness, no education, needless aggression.
 
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Funny last time i checked countries like Turkiye , Malaysia or Indonesia were doing quite well while staying away from Islamism and not possesing any natural resources unlike their Middle-Eastern counterparts.

True, but last time I checked there were a lot of secular nations which are dirt poor. The idea that a western style democracy is a precursor to better living standards is ridiculous and China proved it with, what's considered by many, a very poor overall human rights record. Furthermore, as per PEW, 86% of Muslims in Malaysia (like in Pakistan) and 75% in Indonesia want Sharia as the law of the land and both countries currently employ Blasphemy laws.
 
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