Turkish Air Force (HVKK)

[LegionnairE]

We won't use basic EJ200. It will be upgraded. Maybe EJ270 or we can simply use upgraded F-110's

F-110 was among the candidates.. but EJ200 was chosen due to better thrust to weight ratio... from what I understood

F110 wouldn't fit on an aircraft that was designed for EJ200... there wouldn't be enough structure. You couldn't do that.

F110 would be better right now because it's the same engine on F16 and we already have a flow of spare parts and technical expertise on it. But it'll be very, very old by 2023


The best foreign engine for TFX would be F135 to be honest... but I feel twin F135s would be a bit of an overkill. It would provide enough thrust to lift a bomber plane...

like B1 lancer or B2 spirit...

actually... now that I think about it... maybe we should make something like that?
because let's be honest F35 is filling every role that we can imagine for a fighter.

maybe we shouldn't make another fighter? maybe we should make a bomber?

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

That's what Rolls Royce can and will offer Turkey- ready 2020

GE Details Sixth-Generation Adaptive Fighter Engine Plan | Defense content from Aviation Week

It will be not indigenous but a Technology Center in Turkey for Near and Middle East Market

 

[Babur Han]

F-110 was among the candidates.. but EJ200 was chosen due to better thrust to weight ratio... from what I understood

F110 wouldn't fit on an aircraft that was designed for EJ200... there wouldn't be enough structure. You couldn't do that.

F110 would be better right now because it's the same engine on F16 and we already have a flow of spare parts and technical expertise on it. But it'll be very, very old by 2023


The best foreign engine for TFX would be F135 to be honest... but I feel twin F135s would be a bit of an overkill. It would provide enough thrust to lift a bomber plane...

like B1 lancer or B2 spirit...

actually... now that I think about it... maybe we should make something like that?
because let's be honest F35 is filling every role that we can imagine for a fighter.

maybe we shouldn't make another fighter? maybe we should make a bomber?

An Intercontinental Bomber like B-2 will be too expensive, even in future after a succesfull completion of T-FX ! Turkey should rather go for a medium Range Regional Bomber, which will have two Engines, multiple Cruise Missile launch Capabillity, Stealth Charateristics and a Range without Refueling up to 7000 - 8000 km. This could allow TurAF to Project Power to Central Russia,indian Subcontinent and iberian Peninsula !Examples for Bomber in this Class are the , FB-23 and H-18 Concepts.

FB-23

H-18

 

[LegionnairE]

An Intercontinental Bomber like B-2 will be too expensive, even in future after a succesfull completion of T-FX ! Turkey should rather go for a medium Range Regional Bomber, which will have two Engines, multiple Cruise Missile launch Capabillity, Stealth Charateristics and a Range without Refueling up to 7000 - 8000 km. This could allow TurAF to Project Power to Central Russia,indian Subcontinent and iberian Peninsula !Examples for Bomber in this Class are the , FB-23 and H-18 Concepts.

FB-23

H-18

These don't seem much smaller than B1 lancer... we're both saying the same thing

a twin-F135 twin-seated stealth bomber plane would be much more useful for TURAF in my honest opinion

 

[Exocet]

These don't seem much smaller than B1 lancer... we're both saying the same thing

a twin-F135 twin-seated stealth bomber plane would be much more useful for TURAF in my honest opinion

i

Very good idea.

 

[LegionnairE]

Very good idea.

Thanks,

Simply because F35 fills every role I can imagine for a fighter jet... we simply won't need another fighter no matter how good TFX can be

 

[Exocet]

Thanks,

Simply because F35 fills every role I can imagine for a fighter jet... we simply won't need another fighter no matter how good TFX can be

Well, F-35 has some weaknesses as you know. Slow speed, low maneuverability etc, but twin f135 medium bomber is a very good idea.

 

[LegionnairE]

Well, F-35 has some weaknesses as you know. Slow speed, low maneuverability etc, but twin f135 medium bomber is a very good idea.

thanks but

you're wrong about F35 bro... F35 is capable of supercruise therefore it's much faster than F16. It's not slow by any stretch of the imagination.

also trust me on this, an EJ200 powered TFX isn't going to be faster or more agile than F35... We could make the TFX with canards and thrust vectoring systems and it could do Pugachev's cobra all day long but it wouldn't matter... today's air warfare is much more dependant on BVR

Hell... we shot down that SU24 with a BVR missile, there was no dogfight

 

[Exocet]

thanks but

you're wrong about F35 bro... F35 is capable of supercruise therefore it's much faster than F16. It's not slow by any stretch of the imagination.

also trust me on this, an EJ200 powered TFX isn't going to be faster or more agile than F35... We could make the TFX with canards and thrust vectoring systems and it could do Pugachev's cobra all day long but it wouldn't matter... today's air warfare is much more dependant on BVR

Hell... we shot down that SU24 with a BVR missile, there was no dogfight

F-35's top speed is 1960 km/h it is approx 2000 for F-16.

EJ200 powered EF2000 and Snecma M88 powered Rafale can sustain a mach 1.5 supercruise but F135 powered F-35 can supercruise at mach 1.2 but only for 150 miles.

 

[LegionnairE]

F-35's top speed is 1960 km/h it is approx 2000 for F-16.

at what altitude?

 

[Exocet]

at what altitude?

Optimum altitude i think.

 

[LegionnairE]

Optimum altitude i think.

I can't work with this and frankly it doesn't matter that much

what matters is that it's capable of super cruise, that alone is enough for me. It's a big advantage.

EJ200 powered EF2000 and Snecma M88 powered Rafale can sustain a mach 1.5 supercruise but F135 powered F-35 can supercruise at mach 1.2 but only for 150 miles.

at what altitude? with what load?

also, EF and Rafale are 4th generation fighters they don't have the same hardware with F35 it wouldn't be unfair to compare them. Their engines are almost as good as F35's but they don't pack the same hardware so it's natural they might be a bit faster.

But of course things like T-50 or F22 are going to have better flight characteristics but unless America gives us the F22 engines we can't build similiar aircraft... and those are not for sale either so it's irrelevant.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

There are some problems especially in narrow combat "DOGFIGHT with Vipers" ,
but final F-35 is said to be stealth and BVR with AESA.

"More troubling is the fact that during this particular test, the F-35 should have been superior to the F-16 not only because of its more aerodynamic design but also because the old fighter was carrying extra fuel tanks. Still, the F-35 was not able to shoot down the F-16 or evade the attack, even though it should have been significantly nimbler than its opponent."

F-35 vs. F-16: Fighter Dogfight Test Has Unexpected Winner | BGR

but unless America gives us the F22 engines

Chess seems to change the proposal of Rolls Royce and BAE for Turkey sounds pretty good.
Adaptable 6.gen engines , no less no more

 

[era_shield]

thanks but

you're wrong about F35 bro... F35 is capable of supercruise therefore it's much faster than F16. It's not slow by any stretch of the imagination.

also trust me on this, an EJ200 powered TFX isn't going to be faster or more agile than F35... We could make the TFX with canards and thrust vectoring systems and it could do Pugachev's cobra all day long but it wouldn't matter... today's air warfare is much more dependant on BVR

Hell... we shot down that SU24 with a BVR missile, there was no dogfight

The F-35 cannot supercruise. And nobody is suggesting we use the EJ200 - we would be using the EJ230, which has higher thrust and thust vectoring. Read. You don't know what you're talking about, as usual.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Supercruise does produce heat , a lot of heat actually even thought it still produce less infrared signature compared to AB.
Meteor BVR AA missile has a ramjet and more than Mach 5 speed.
Supercruise means agility or.... ?