Turkish Air Defence Programs
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Aselsan, Roketsan ve Eurosam‘in, SAMP/T’den daha gelismis bir Uzun Menzilli Bolge Hava ve Fuze Savunma Sistemi gelistirmek hedefiyle surdurdugu kavram tanimlama calismasi raporunun 2019 sonunda SSM‘ye sunulmasi bekleniyor. Not: Aster 30 Blok 1NT seviyesinde 1 fuze hedefleniyor.
Translated from Turkish by Microsoft
Aselsan, Roketsan and Eurosam are expected to be presented to SSM at the end of 2019, with the goal of developing a long-range Bolge air and fuze defense system developed more advanced than Samp/T. Note: Aster 30 blocks 1NT Level 1 fuze is aimed.
3)Hisar-U: Sadece hava soluyan hedefler icin. Hisar-A/O tecrubesiyle yerli tasarim gelistirme. 2022-2023 ilk teslim. 4)Aselsan-Roketsan-Eurosam ortak calisma: UMBHFSS. Kavram tanimlama calismasi raporu 2019 sonunda sunulacak. Hedef SAMP/T’den daha gelismis sistem. *: Degisecektir
Translated from Turkish by Microsoft
3) Hisar-U: Only for air-breathing targets. Local design development with Hisar-A/O experience. 2022-2023 first delivery. 4) Aselsan-Roketsan-Eurosam joint work: UMBHFSS. The Concept Description study report will be presented at the end of 2019. The target is more advanced than the SAMP/T system. *: Will change
Translated from Turkish by Microsoft
Aselsan, Roketsan and Eurosam are expected to be presented to SSM at the end of 2019, with the goal of developing a long-range Bolge air and fuze defense system developed more advanced than Samp/T. Note: Aster 30 blocks 1NT Level 1 fuze is aimed.
3)Hisar-U: Sadece hava soluyan hedefler icin. Hisar-A/O tecrubesiyle yerli tasarim gelistirme. 2022-2023 ilk teslim. 4)Aselsan-Roketsan-Eurosam ortak calisma: UMBHFSS. Kavram tanimlama calismasi raporu 2019 sonunda sunulacak. Hedef SAMP/T’den daha gelismis sistem. *: Degisecektir
Translated from Turkish by Microsoft
3) Hisar-U: Only for air-breathing targets. Local design development with Hisar-A/O experience. 2022-2023 first delivery. 4) Aselsan-Roketsan-Eurosam joint work: UMBHFSS. The Concept Description study report will be presented at the end of 2019. The target is more advanced than the SAMP/T system. *: Will change
TheMightyBender
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Turkey, Italian-French consortium advance talks on air defense systems
Sevil Erkuş - ANKARA
Cooperation between European manufacturer of anti-air missiles Eurosam and Turkish defense organizations will provide technology transfer to Turkey and bring the opportunity of export to third party markets, Ambassador of Italy to Ankara Luigi Mattiolo told Hürriyet Daily News, as the two sides advance talks on the Turkish procurement of the SAMP-T missile system.
“One area Turkey and Italy want to develop economic relations is the defense industry, which is a field that needs trust on the ground in order to cooperate. The added value is huge. The common partnership in NATO should be the main trigger for this kind of cooperation,” Mattiolo said in an interview with the Hürriyet Daily News over the weekend.
The deployment of the Italian air defense system in Kahramanmaraş as part of a NATO mission to augment Turkey’s anti-ballistic defense against potential threats from Syria demonstrates this perspective, he said.
“We are engaged with our French partners in a consortium with Eurosam, which has begun the study of a possible new generation of anti-missile defense systems with Turkish companies, which would obviously be by definition fully NATO interoperable,” the ambassador said.
Ankara had made an initial deal with the French-Italian consortium on July 14, 2017 to develop Turkey’s national defense systems and had signed an agreement early 2018 for an 18-month long study to determine the needs and priorities for the potential joint production of an anti-ballistic missile system. The proposed system will be a more developed version of the Eurosam’s current SAMP-T air defense systems.
Two sides met in Ankara for the systems
A written statement issued by Turkey’s Undersecreteriat for Defense Industries on June 3 informed that the talks between the two sides continued with the participation of high-level officials from the two sides on May 30 in Ankara. The works are planned to be finalized at the end of 2019, it said.
Talks with the Italian-French consortium advance at a moment when Turkey is under fierce pressure from the United States and other NATO countries because of its plans to procure Russia’s sophisticated S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems. A bill legislated in the U.S. Congress last year imposes sanctions on countries and companies purchasing defense equipment from Russian suppliers. Some NATO officials recall that the Russian systems will never be interoperable with NATO defense architecture while expressing concerns that the deployment of these systems on NATO soil would create security concerns for the alliance as a whole.
Turkey blames the U.S. for not providing technology transfer in its earlier attempts to purchase the U.S. made Patriot missiles, therefore pushing its NATO ally to seek alternative systems from other countries. The most important advantage of the process with the Italian-French consortium is the fact that this is a NATO interoperable system and that the supplier offers technology transfer.
“Italian main industries of this sector will be fully involved in this project, together with industries from Turkey, Roketsan and Aselsan,” said Mattiolo, also noting that the cooperation would provide technology transfer to Turkey.
“There is a technology transfer. There is a development of new technology products together,” he said.
System could be marketed to third countries
“The Italian government and Italian businessmen understand that if we want to enhance and develop economic relations with Turkey, we need to go far beyond the logic of a provider and customer. This [Turkey] is not a country who needs a sort of fully precooked project,” said the ambassador.
These products could also be also sold to third markets, Mattiolo said.
“The point is to use the most advanced technologies at the disposal of foreign countries like Italy and to develop a joint project to develop new products together with the use of Turkish engineering and designing capability,” the ambassador said.
A product intended originally for the Turkish market “might easily also be sold to third countries, where Italy or Turkey or both sometimes might have better access,” he said.
The products could be sold to the Caucasus, Asia, or NATO markets, the ambassador added.
After the cancellation of the original tender Turkey had launched earlier, on which Turkey had decided on a Chinese bidder but had failed to reach an agreement, the ambassador said the three NATO countries—Italy, Turkey and France—could develop a system together that would be in the interest of everyone.
“This is typical mutual interest. I am happy that as we have hoped, what prevailed is awareness about the need to develop a system that can be fully integrated with NATO systems. If you are interoperable, you can have all the strength of the alliance with you when it comes to the need for defense,” he said.
The initial deal that exhibits Turkey’s intention to work with Eurosam, the producer of SAMP-T and Aster 30 long-range surface-to-air missiles (SAM) systems, was signed on July 14, 2017.
As the first step, the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium and Turkish companies will look into a system based on the SAMP-T missile system produced by Eurosam and determine the common needs of the three countries.
Sevil Erkuş - ANKARA
“One area Turkey and Italy want to develop economic relations is the defense industry, which is a field that needs trust on the ground in order to cooperate. The added value is huge. The common partnership in NATO should be the main trigger for this kind of cooperation,” Mattiolo said in an interview with the Hürriyet Daily News over the weekend.
The deployment of the Italian air defense system in Kahramanmaraş as part of a NATO mission to augment Turkey’s anti-ballistic defense against potential threats from Syria demonstrates this perspective, he said.
“We are engaged with our French partners in a consortium with Eurosam, which has begun the study of a possible new generation of anti-missile defense systems with Turkish companies, which would obviously be by definition fully NATO interoperable,” the ambassador said.
Ankara had made an initial deal with the French-Italian consortium on July 14, 2017 to develop Turkey’s national defense systems and had signed an agreement early 2018 for an 18-month long study to determine the needs and priorities for the potential joint production of an anti-ballistic missile system. The proposed system will be a more developed version of the Eurosam’s current SAMP-T air defense systems.
Two sides met in Ankara for the systems
A written statement issued by Turkey’s Undersecreteriat for Defense Industries on June 3 informed that the talks between the two sides continued with the participation of high-level officials from the two sides on May 30 in Ankara. The works are planned to be finalized at the end of 2019, it said.
Talks with the Italian-French consortium advance at a moment when Turkey is under fierce pressure from the United States and other NATO countries because of its plans to procure Russia’s sophisticated S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems. A bill legislated in the U.S. Congress last year imposes sanctions on countries and companies purchasing defense equipment from Russian suppliers. Some NATO officials recall that the Russian systems will never be interoperable with NATO defense architecture while expressing concerns that the deployment of these systems on NATO soil would create security concerns for the alliance as a whole.
Turkey blames the U.S. for not providing technology transfer in its earlier attempts to purchase the U.S. made Patriot missiles, therefore pushing its NATO ally to seek alternative systems from other countries. The most important advantage of the process with the Italian-French consortium is the fact that this is a NATO interoperable system and that the supplier offers technology transfer.
“Italian main industries of this sector will be fully involved in this project, together with industries from Turkey, Roketsan and Aselsan,” said Mattiolo, also noting that the cooperation would provide technology transfer to Turkey.
“There is a technology transfer. There is a development of new technology products together,” he said.
System could be marketed to third countries
“The Italian government and Italian businessmen understand that if we want to enhance and develop economic relations with Turkey, we need to go far beyond the logic of a provider and customer. This [Turkey] is not a country who needs a sort of fully precooked project,” said the ambassador.
These products could also be also sold to third markets, Mattiolo said.
“The point is to use the most advanced technologies at the disposal of foreign countries like Italy and to develop a joint project to develop new products together with the use of Turkish engineering and designing capability,” the ambassador said.
A product intended originally for the Turkish market “might easily also be sold to third countries, where Italy or Turkey or both sometimes might have better access,” he said.
The products could be sold to the Caucasus, Asia, or NATO markets, the ambassador added.
After the cancellation of the original tender Turkey had launched earlier, on which Turkey had decided on a Chinese bidder but had failed to reach an agreement, the ambassador said the three NATO countries—Italy, Turkey and France—could develop a system together that would be in the interest of everyone.
“This is typical mutual interest. I am happy that as we have hoped, what prevailed is awareness about the need to develop a system that can be fully integrated with NATO systems. If you are interoperable, you can have all the strength of the alliance with you when it comes to the need for defense,” he said.
The initial deal that exhibits Turkey’s intention to work with Eurosam, the producer of SAMP-T and Aster 30 long-range surface-to-air missiles (SAM) systems, was signed on July 14, 2017.
As the first step, the Franco-Italian Eurosam consortium and Turkish companies will look into a system based on the SAMP-T missile system produced by Eurosam and determine the common needs of the three countries.
cabatli_53
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Very good! Do we have any information about what will be the differences between Hisar O, Hisar O+, Hisar Nokta
azyr
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Don’t use S-400s even if you buy them, US tells Turkey
Serkan Demirtaş - ANKARA
Turkey and the United States recently took an important step in the right direction by endorsing the road map for Syria’s Manbij province that will lead to the withdrawal of the People’s Protection Units (YPG) at a meeting between Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Washington.
Although it is regarded as a positive development for the normalization of ties, there are still some very important pending disputes between the two long-standing allies, including Turkey’s procurement of S-400s from Russia.
Senior Turkish and American officials have been in close dialogue and negotiations to overcome the troubled waters on ties for some time, with a special emphasis on two main issues: S-400s and the Manbij process.
Speaking to diplomatic sources who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the issues, the Hürriyet Daily News has obtained important background information about closed-door talks between the two countries on these key matters. They have engaged in hectic diplomacy in the last few months at almost every level, with the last one being between Çavuşoğlu and Pompeo on June 4.
One track of this Turkish-American diplomacy was focused on Turkey’s bid to augment its air defense with the sophisticated Russian-made S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems. The U.S. has long been against this procurement for three main reasons.
First, it is against NATO’s plans to further isolate and deter Russia. A bill legislated at the U.S. Congress in 2017 imposes sanctions on countries and companies who engage in contracts to purchase Russian weaponry. Second, there are concerns that this deployment would endanger the flights of NATO aircrafts, particularly F-35s that are also on Turkey’s procurement plans from the U.S. Third, there are trade concerns that prioritize the sale of U.S.-made Patriot air defense systems to Turkey and other allies.
Sanctions will be retaliated
Talks between Ankara and Washington on S-400s were therefore shaped around these three concerns. The main U.S. demand from its ally was the cancellation of the purchase of S-400s on the grounds that it could trigger sanctions on Turkey. Turkish officials firmly rejected this call, stressing that these systems will be bought and deployed because Turkey needs them.
“All countries surrounding us have missile systems. Imagine if, for example, relations with Iran deteriorate over Syria and they launch missiles on us. How Turkey will be able to protect itself?” was the question posed to American officials.
They also denounced threats imposed on Turkey, making clear that “any sanctions on Turkey will not be left unanswered.”
Following Turkey’s firm stance on the purchase of these systems, U.S. officials hinted that “Turkey should not use the S-400s even if it does buy them from Russia,” while Turkish diplomatic sources said this was not a realistic expectation.
‘Let’s work together’
Having dismissed calls for the cancellation, Turkey suggested joint work with the U.S. to look into potential consequences of the deployment of S-400s and to address U.S. concerns on the safety of NATO aircrafts.
In talks with U.S. officials, Turkey made clear its sensitivity in not putting NATO allies’ aircrafts in danger through the weapon systems it acquires from non-NATO sources. They also stress that it has not opted for a nine-month quick delivery option offered by Russia.
“If we had accepted a nine-month delivery option then we would have no control on the use of S-400s. They would be used only by Russian experts, as national software would not be ready to be uploaded. Instead, we have chosen the 19-month option so that we could prepare our technical works and use them under fully Turkish control. We are very sensitive on this,” officials stated.
Trump offers Patriots
The third aspect of Turkish-American conversations was about the latter’s revisited attempts to sell Patriot air defense systems to Turkey in place of the S-400s.
U.S. President Donald Trump was as direct as possible in trying to convince President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan that the U.S. was ready to sell Patriots right away, after his counterpart complaint that previous administrations introduced difficulties in front of Turkey on this purchase. In talks on Patriots, Turkey said it could consider procuring these systems from the U.S. on the condition that the administration could assure congressional approval.
Three-stage road map for Manbij
The second main topic between Turkey and the U.S. was the Manbij road map. Talks had been delayed due to the replacement of Rex Tillerson by Mike Pompeo as secretary of state. However, diplomatic sources underline that the road map endorsed on June 4 between Pompeo and Çavuşoğlu was not much different the version agreed with Tillerson.
The road map reportedly consists of three stages starting from June 4: In the first 10 days, both countries’ experts, officers, and intelligence institutions will conduct initial preparations for the implementation of the road map. From the 11th to the 30th day, preparatory talks will be held to shape the modalities of the withdrawal of YPG troops from the province as well as on how the security of the city will be provided. On the 31st day, in early July, the withdrawal will begin and the entire process will be terminated within 90 days after June 4. This includes the establishment of a local government.
US sought delay on YPG pull back
Diplomatic sources told that U.S. wanted a six-month withdrawal process instead of three months. But this proposal has not been accepted by Turkey as it could undermine the road map. Another demand from the U.S. was to introduce this road map to the relevant bodies for its ratification. Turkey has opposed this amid concerns that congressional approval could never come and therefore the road map would never be implemented.
One important question was about the motives of the U.S. in endorsing this road map, despite the expectation that its cooperation with the YPG will continue afterwards. According to sources, there are two main drivers behind the endorsement. The first was about a growing concern in the Washington that the U.S. has been losing its main ally in the region. Sources recalled that Turkey made clear its counterpart that ties risk to be broken if U.S. continues its support to the YPG. This message has found its place, they stress.
The second is more important. Many U.S. officials, including President Trump, were very concerned about the possibility of an armed conflict with Turkey because of the situation in Manbij. Sources said Trump raised this concern in one of his conversations with Erdoğan, who told him that Turkey was primarily concerned with YPG militants rather than U.S. troops.
Source : http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/dont-use-s-400s-even-if-you-buy-them-us-tells-turkey-132904
Serkan Demirtaş - ANKARA
Turkey and the United States recently took an important step in the right direction by endorsing the road map for Syria’s Manbij province that will lead to the withdrawal of the People’s Protection Units (YPG) at a meeting between Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Washington.
Although it is regarded as a positive development for the normalization of ties, there are still some very important pending disputes between the two long-standing allies, including Turkey’s procurement of S-400s from Russia.
Senior Turkish and American officials have been in close dialogue and negotiations to overcome the troubled waters on ties for some time, with a special emphasis on two main issues: S-400s and the Manbij process.
Speaking to diplomatic sources who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the issues, the Hürriyet Daily News has obtained important background information about closed-door talks between the two countries on these key matters. They have engaged in hectic diplomacy in the last few months at almost every level, with the last one being between Çavuşoğlu and Pompeo on June 4.
One track of this Turkish-American diplomacy was focused on Turkey’s bid to augment its air defense with the sophisticated Russian-made S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems. The U.S. has long been against this procurement for three main reasons.
First, it is against NATO’s plans to further isolate and deter Russia. A bill legislated at the U.S. Congress in 2017 imposes sanctions on countries and companies who engage in contracts to purchase Russian weaponry. Second, there are concerns that this deployment would endanger the flights of NATO aircrafts, particularly F-35s that are also on Turkey’s procurement plans from the U.S. Third, there are trade concerns that prioritize the sale of U.S.-made Patriot air defense systems to Turkey and other allies.
Sanctions will be retaliated
Talks between Ankara and Washington on S-400s were therefore shaped around these three concerns. The main U.S. demand from its ally was the cancellation of the purchase of S-400s on the grounds that it could trigger sanctions on Turkey. Turkish officials firmly rejected this call, stressing that these systems will be bought and deployed because Turkey needs them.
“All countries surrounding us have missile systems. Imagine if, for example, relations with Iran deteriorate over Syria and they launch missiles on us. How Turkey will be able to protect itself?” was the question posed to American officials.
They also denounced threats imposed on Turkey, making clear that “any sanctions on Turkey will not be left unanswered.”
Following Turkey’s firm stance on the purchase of these systems, U.S. officials hinted that “Turkey should not use the S-400s even if it does buy them from Russia,” while Turkish diplomatic sources said this was not a realistic expectation.
‘Let’s work together’
Having dismissed calls for the cancellation, Turkey suggested joint work with the U.S. to look into potential consequences of the deployment of S-400s and to address U.S. concerns on the safety of NATO aircrafts.
In talks with U.S. officials, Turkey made clear its sensitivity in not putting NATO allies’ aircrafts in danger through the weapon systems it acquires from non-NATO sources. They also stress that it has not opted for a nine-month quick delivery option offered by Russia.
“If we had accepted a nine-month delivery option then we would have no control on the use of S-400s. They would be used only by Russian experts, as national software would not be ready to be uploaded. Instead, we have chosen the 19-month option so that we could prepare our technical works and use them under fully Turkish control. We are very sensitive on this,” officials stated.
Trump offers Patriots
The third aspect of Turkish-American conversations was about the latter’s revisited attempts to sell Patriot air defense systems to Turkey in place of the S-400s.
U.S. President Donald Trump was as direct as possible in trying to convince President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan that the U.S. was ready to sell Patriots right away, after his counterpart complaint that previous administrations introduced difficulties in front of Turkey on this purchase. In talks on Patriots, Turkey said it could consider procuring these systems from the U.S. on the condition that the administration could assure congressional approval.
Three-stage road map for Manbij
The second main topic between Turkey and the U.S. was the Manbij road map. Talks had been delayed due to the replacement of Rex Tillerson by Mike Pompeo as secretary of state. However, diplomatic sources underline that the road map endorsed on June 4 between Pompeo and Çavuşoğlu was not much different the version agreed with Tillerson.
The road map reportedly consists of three stages starting from June 4: In the first 10 days, both countries’ experts, officers, and intelligence institutions will conduct initial preparations for the implementation of the road map. From the 11th to the 30th day, preparatory talks will be held to shape the modalities of the withdrawal of YPG troops from the province as well as on how the security of the city will be provided. On the 31st day, in early July, the withdrawal will begin and the entire process will be terminated within 90 days after June 4. This includes the establishment of a local government.
US sought delay on YPG pull back
Diplomatic sources told that U.S. wanted a six-month withdrawal process instead of three months. But this proposal has not been accepted by Turkey as it could undermine the road map. Another demand from the U.S. was to introduce this road map to the relevant bodies for its ratification. Turkey has opposed this amid concerns that congressional approval could never come and therefore the road map would never be implemented.
One important question was about the motives of the U.S. in endorsing this road map, despite the expectation that its cooperation with the YPG will continue afterwards. According to sources, there are two main drivers behind the endorsement. The first was about a growing concern in the Washington that the U.S. has been losing its main ally in the region. Sources recalled that Turkey made clear its counterpart that ties risk to be broken if U.S. continues its support to the YPG. This message has found its place, they stress.
The second is more important. Many U.S. officials, including President Trump, were very concerned about the possibility of an armed conflict with Turkey because of the situation in Manbij. Sources said Trump raised this concern in one of his conversations with Erdoğan, who told him that Turkey was primarily concerned with YPG militants rather than U.S. troops.
Source : http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/dont-use-s-400s-even-if-you-buy-them-us-tells-turkey-132904
Seyfullah
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Sometimes I wonder what part of the body US government reps use, when they come up with such demands.
azyr
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It's actually an improvement;
Before
- Don't buy the S-400 or we'll embargo you
- Don't buy the S-400 or no F35's or any other weapons too
- We'll see about the Patriot system, not sure about selling them to you but we "might" place our own systems around SOME of Turkey under OUR control
- Ok, you're obviously committed to the S-400, buy it but is it ok if you, I don't know, maybe don't use them?
- The F35's are a complicated issue, some people in congress says we shouldn't sell - we'll see
- You can buy the Patriot system as a whole RIGHT NOW! No delays, we're ready to deploy like right now
Constantinople
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Exactly
revojam
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I dont think they are willing to give us thaad.
Bismarck
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Finally you have understood.
Oublious
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Somebody should try to translate and send it to the americans "gecti bor'un pazari sur esegi nigde'ye".
azyr
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That's actually a great plan (once we get patriots of course), and realistically could be used as a negotiation point with the US. Except for the Thaad systems, don't think they'll sell us those.
- Alright johnny
- My names not Jho-..
- It's time you understood something
- Did you not hea-...
- There's a saying in Turkey, you need to hear it and embrace it
- What's going on here?
- You've missed the exit for Bor's bazaar, time to ride the donkey to Niğde!
- ….
- You getting me?
- … uhm?
- Exactly!
Should work.
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