Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Foinikas]

What the **** do you expect when Armenians, Greeks, Kurds everybody working against you having diasporas that actually do things instead of Useless shits we have in Germany like MME, that do more to ruin Turkey's image than to actually help. What the **** do you expect?

Yes,that's true. Even Erdogan's bodyguards gave Turkey a bad name when they beat up protesters and secret police in Washington,a few years ago.

 

[MMM-E]

USA forced Turkiye to work with Russia


-- USA support PKK/YPG Terrorism against Turkiye
-- USA support FETO Terrorism against Turkiye
-- USA always did military coups in Turkiye including 2016
-- USA always blocked Turkiye to become developed country
-- USA doesnt sell even PATRIOT to Turkiye
-- USA in action against Turkiye from Syria to Libya
-- USA wants to use Greece to start a war against Turkiye
like they have started a war between Ukraine and Russia


They want a puppet leader from CHP,HDP,FETO instead of Erdogan to work for American-İsraeli interests


Whatever you tell them , they very well knows about their puppets PKK , FETO

 

[LegionnairE]

Akar speaks english...although not great. The problem is the whole government was seen as a loose cannon. That's the kind of threat! They took Turkey and turned it into an unreliable ally and occasional friend. One day with USA,the other day with Russia,one day F-35,then S-400,then asking for F-35 again,then saying they will buy Su-35 and Su-57,then asking for F-16s,then saying maybe Eurofighter. Selling TB2 to Ukraine,but making deals with Russia,saying we're a peaceful country,then you have some AKP MPs saying "We can be in Damascus in 3 hours".

Two things, They didn't REALLY intend to buy Su35, somebody must have told them that it's not compatible with the NATO systems we have. They just used it to haggle for a better deal with the Americans. Which is moronic.

And the other thing is that there's a massive inferiority complex with everyone in the Turkish government. They REALLY want to prove that we're a sovereign nation and we can do whatever the **** we want.

 

[Foinikas]

Two things, They didn't REALLY intend to buy Su35, somebody must have told them that it's not compatible with the NATO systems we have. They just used it to haggle for a better deal with the Americans. Which is moronic.

And the other thing is that there's a massive inferiority complex with everyone in the Turkish government. They REALLY want to prove that we're a sovereign nation and we can do whatever the **** we want.

They probably never intended to buy Su-35s,but then again...Erdogan is weird and if he says "we'll buy"...even just a squadron,they'd have to buy. And the pilots would get frustrated.

 

[LegionnairE]

They probably never intended to buy Su-35s,but then again...Erdogan is weird and if he says "we'll buy"...even just a squadron,they'd have to buy. And the pilots would get frustrated.

No he does quite a lot of backpedaling. There's no way Turkey would get Su35s. That would be a colossal waste of time and resources. How are you going to integrate Turkish missiles, bombs, avionics?

A Russian plane shooting only Russian missiles, interface with only Russian AEW&C, cockpit is all Russian... What a nightmare.

 

[Foinikas]

No he does quite a lot of backpedaling. There's no way Turkey would get Su35s. That would be a colossal waste of time and resources. How are you going to integrate Turkish missiles, bombs, avionics?

A Russian plane shooting only Russian missiles, interface with only Russian AEW&C, cockpit is all Russian... What a nightmare.

Imagine the Air Force! You'd have to train pilots in a completely different philosophy aircraft,you'd have to train the engineers,you'd have to make new maintainance hangars and logistics chains,you'd have to buy brand new missiles and integrate all the equipment to NATO stuff.

 

[LegionnairE]

Imagine the Air Force! You'd have to train pilots in a completely different philosophy aircraft,you'd have to train the engineers,you'd have to make new maintainance hangars and logistics chains,you'd have to buy brand new missiles and integrate all the equipment to NATO stuff.

All of this has to happen before you can even start thinking tactically about what the role of Flankers would be in a combined force with F16s and other aircraft. And try to squeeze the advantages of the aircraft.

So it would be a pain in the *** all around. Operational, Tactical, Strategic... not even thinking about the off-again on-again Russo-Turkish relations

Suffice to say, Su35 was never an option. We just foolishly tried to use it as a bargaining chip

 

[MMM-E]

if Russia allow Turkiye to use its own mission computer , avionics , electronics , missiles on SU-35

then Turkiye can buy SU-35 platform to integrate Turkish systems and weapons
but SU-35 is the last option ... ( low probability )

Turkiye also negotiating with the UK for Eurofighter

 

[Foinikas]

All of this has to happen before you can even start thinking tactically about what the role of Flankers would be in a combined force with F16s and other aircraft. And try to squeeze the advantages of the aircraft.

So it would be a pain in the *** all around. Operational, Tactical, Strategic... not even thinking about the off-again on-again Russo-Turkish relations

Suffice to say, Su35 was never an option. We just foolishly tried to use it as a bargaining chip

I agree on the whole post

 

[LegionnairE]

if Russia allow Turkiye to use its own mission computer , avionics , electronics , missiles on SU-35

then Turkiye can buy SU-35 platform to integrate Turkish systems and weapons
but SU-35 is the last option ... ( low probability )

Turkiye also negotiating with the UK for Eurofighter

Why on earth would Russia accept that? They won't get to sell us Russian missiles, bombs, upgrade packages etc. And we might use these planes to bomb Russia-backed forces in Syria.

Is it worth it to drive a wedge betwen Turkey and NATO and making a few billion dollars in the process? Perhaps, but will the Russians see it that way?

 

[MMM-E]

. And we might use these planes to bomb Russia-backed forces in Syria.

Turkiye has 235 F-16s to do it in Syria
even Turkish UCAVs can do it .... Also KIZILELMA , TISU , HURJET on the way


Turkiye needs air superiority Fighter Jet to match with hostile threats in the Eastern Mediterranean

Why on earth would Russia accept that? They won't get to sell us Russian missiles, bombs, upgrade packages etc.

Russia allowed India to do it

SU-30MKI produced under license by India
and integrated Indian systems and avionics as well as French and Israeli sub-systems
and Indian - Israeli air to air missiles


Turkiye is only NATO Country which has good relationship with Russia
Russia needs Turkiye , especially at this time

SU-35 is twin-engine, supermaneuverable Fighter Jet with thrust-vectoring control as like American F-22

and Turkiye can turn SU-35 into hell of war machine

-- GaN based AESA Radar
-- High quality avionics for modern Cockpit
-- National mission computer
-- National IFF System
-- National Electronic Warfare suite
-- tactical data link

and GOKDOGAN - BOZDOGAN air to air missiles
also Ramjet powered GOKHAN long range air to air missile


Turkiye did it with OZGUR modernization for F-16s

if USA doesnt sell even F-16 to Turkiye and if Europe block sale of Eurofighter to Turkiye
then, Turkiye can do it on SU-35s

 

[Silicon0000]

Turkiye has 235 F-16s to do it in Syria
even Turkish UCAVs can do it .... Also KIZILELMA , TISU , HURJET on the way


Turkiye needs air superiority Fighter Jet to match with hostile threats in the Eastern Mediterranean





Russia allowed India to do it

SU-30MKI produced under license by India
and integrated Indian systems and avionics as well as French and Israeli sub-systems
and Indian - Israeli air to air missiles


Turkiye is only NATO Country which has good relationship with Russia
Russia needs Turkiye , especially at this time

SU-35 is twin-engine, supermaneuverable Fighter Jet with thrust-vectoring control as like American F-22

and Turkiye can turn SU-35 into hell of war machine

-- GaN based AESA Radar
-- High quality avionics for modern Cockpit
-- National mission computer
-- National IFF System
-- National Electronic Warfare suite
-- tactical data link

and GOKDOGAN - BOZDOGAN air to air missiles
also Ramjet powered GOKHAN long range air to air missiles


Turkiye did it with OZGUR modernization for F-16s

if USA doesnt sell even F-16 to Turkiye and if Europe block sale of Eurofighter to Turkiye
then, Turkiye can do it on SU-35s

Don't you think it will take lot of time and resources as compare to benefits turkey is going to get and probably TFX and other new goodies will be near to availability by the time turkey will get SU35 after these extensive modification.

 

[LegionnairE]

and Turkiye can turn SU-35 into hell of war machine

Even if it was such an easy thing like we could grab the Turkish avionics and drop them into Flankers willy nilly... Like it's all plug and play, We won't need hundreds of Russian engineers working on this.

It still begs the question of why would Russia want Turkey to have this? Suddenly we're not a regional rival anymore?

Why didn't we do this with S400? I would like to integrate Turkish radars to S400 system.

Don't you think it will take lot of time and resources as compare to benefits turkey is going to get and probably TFX and other new goodies will be near to availability by the time turkey will get SU35 after these extensive modification.

Exactly.

 

[MMM-E]

Don't you think it will take lot of time and resources as compare to benefits turkey is going to get and probably TFX and other new goodies will be near to availability by the time turkey will get SU35 after these extensive modification.

Turkiye wants to buy 40 F-16 block70 from USA

USA has been keeping Turkiye busy for F-16s .. USA use F16 sale as political card
and cost of $6,5 billion

Turkiye lost many years .. when USA blocked F35 to Turkiye in 2018 , even in 2015


on the other hand Greece bought Rafale ,
Egypt bought Rafale , also F15 and Eurofighter on agenda
even Iran buys SU-35s

Turkish Airforce put hopes on new projects KIZILELMA and TFX


If needed Russia can produce 48 SU-35 in 2 years
and Turkiye can integrate indigenous systems in a year at cheaper cost

Why didn't we do this with S400? I would like to integrate Turkish radars to S400 system.

Our S400s use Turkish IFF System and radar software

 

[Silicon0000]

Turkiye wants to buy 40 F-16 block70 from USA

USA has been keeping Turkiye busy for F-16s .. USA use F16 sale as political card
and cost of $6,5 billion

Turkiye lost 8 years .. when USA blocked F35 to Turkiye in 2015


on the other hand Greece bought Rafale ,
Egypt bought Rafale , also F15 and Eurofighter on agenda
even Iran buys SU-35s

Turkish Airforce put hopes on new projects KIZILELMA and TFX


If needed Russia can produce 48 SU-35 in 2 years
and Turkiye can integrate indigenous systems in a year at cheaper cost



Our S400s use Turkish IFF System and radar software

Russia can produce 48 SU-35 in 2 years .......... Doubtful claim as Russians are already busy with Ukraine and don't think they are gonna get free any time soon.

Turkiye can integrate indigenous systems in a year ............ Extremely doubtful as the changes you suggest are massive and probably require more time.


2023+3Years=2025-26
Even with given timeline and considering required efforts and resources for around 40 odd planes doesn't seems good option. Greece are already way behind Turkey and Current F16 with upgrades are enough to cater that threat. Greece is also going to get 20 F35 when Turkey will probably have 40 MMU. Regarding Egypt, they have all the goodies with no tooth so even hurjet/Kızılelma can tackle them if used properly.

Turkish Airforce put hopes on new projects KIZILELMA and TFX .............. Seems right decision to me.