Turkish Air Defence Programs

[UkroTurk]

I am a little confused here. What does the bubble indicate ? if you place the system at the edge of Turkish soil on either side, it shows the range of the missile system ?

Or are we to understand that placing the S400 in Ankara covers the whole bubble area ?

The distance from Ankara to Balikesir (all the way to west almost near dardanelles) is around 800 km.

Your assumption would be true İf there was a just one system with one radar.But
Optional elements of the S-400 (98ZH6E)[15][20] include the 15I6ME–98ZH6E, with coverage of 30, 60 and 90 km beyond the 30K6E coverage. The 96L6E[21] has a 300-kilometre (190 mi) detection range. The 40B6M is housing for the 92N6E or 96L6E radar.
Second point is launchers dont have to be near the radars.
Thus area ,you cover, can be extended.



S400 s is appeared to be network of radars.
How many S400 battalions has Turkey bought?

EDİT: According reuter:
Turkish Defence Minister Nurettin Canikli said Ankara would purchase two S-400 systems and four batteries and that all agreements were made, the state broadcaster TRT Haber reported.

Two S400 systems must consider own radars with 600 range.

 

[Adıvar]

Just realized. The propagation pattern does not have to be circular. So, with two systems assuming to cover 400 km each, the range may be extended to 800 KMs with a rotating antenna spanning angle 180 Degrees.

 

[kartal1]

Just realized. The propagation pattern does not have to be circular. So, with two systems assuming to cover 400 km each, the range may be extended to 800 KMs with a rotating antenna spanning angle 180 Degrees.

When describing range its in radius. So range in radius 400km of the missile. The direction is not important. The engagement range is 400km radius from the missile. The detection range depends on the radar and the angle it covers and may not be in radius.

 

[OguzSenturk]

I don't get the point of discussing 400km range. Radar will not be able to detect planes unless plane is silly fat and huge like AWACS or transport plane. There is no way for S-400 radar to detect F-16 from 400km distance and then engage

We have no serius air threat from East, South, and if relations with Russia remains good; North. Threat lays in West, which is mainly built in F-16.

Btw I don't expect 400km missiles to be delivered Turkey before 2025+ since they are not even in serial production, and when they get in serial production, Russia would like to cover his own needs first

 

[Kutsanan]

I don't get the point of discussing 400km range. Radar will not be able to detect planes unless plane is silly fat and huge like AWACS or transport plane. There is no way for S-400 radar to detect F-16 from 400km distance and then engage

We have no serius air threat from East, South, and if relations with Russia remains good; North. Threat lays in West, which is mainly built in F-16.

Btw I don't expect 400km missiles to be delivered Turkey before 2025+ since they are not even in serial production, and when they get in serial production, Russia would like to cover his own needs first

That missile for AWACS and Tankers.

 

[Saithan]

I don't get the point of discussing 400km range. Radar will not be able to detect planes unless plane is silly fat and huge like AWACS or transport plane. There is no way for S-400 radar to detect F-16 from 400km distance and then engage

We have no serius air threat from East, South, and if relations with Russia remains good; North. Threat lays in West, which is mainly built in F-16.

Btw I don't expect 400km missiles to be delivered Turkey before 2025+ since they are not even in serial production, and when they get in serial production, Russia would like to cover his own needs first

How did you deduce that the threat is from the west and not from east, south or north ?

You think that Iran, Iraq, Syria won't stab us in the back ? if Iran can provide missiles to houthis what would prevent them from providing them to some other who're willing to hit Turkey ?

We're on friendly terms with Russia for now, but that won't last.

Truth is we're only on friendly terms with all our neighboring countries. Only Azerbaijan, Turkic states and Pakistan are closer than any other.

Which is why MGK asses threats to Turkey when they convene their meetings every year.

 

[Adıvar]

The larger Radar Cross Section, the longer engaging distance. I dont know though if engagement and detection mean same for the system.

 

[OguzSenturk]

You think that Iran, Iraq, Syria won't stab us in the back ?

They could, yet they are still not a threat. They don't have any meaningful airforce for us to deal with our air-defence. Come on now Syrian airforce is bunch of soviet era training jets, Iran's airforce is rotting like hell. Iraq? They acquired few F-16s. Nice for them. Cyprus? Lmao.

But i wouldn't expect something different from you, a falseflagging over non-exist air threats from east-south Keep doing what you supposed to do.

 

[Saithan]

They could, yet they are still not a threat. They don't have any meaningful airforce for us to deal with our air-defence. Come on now Syrian airforce is bunch of soviet era training jets, Iran's airforce is rotting like hell. Iraq? They acquired few F-16s. Nice for them. Cyprus? Lmao.

But i wouldn't expect something different from you, a falseflagging over non-exist air threats from east-south Keep doing what you supposed to do.

Unlike you I'm a realist with regard to threats to our nation and borders. I assume that you live west of Konya and thus you're myopic view on threats. why else would you even mention cyprus as a threat instead of the countries I mentioned.

If your understanding of threat to our citizens is limited to jets, there is nothing I can do but feel sorry for you because apparently you have forgotten that PKK doesn't have jets but have haunted and hurt our citizens throughout time.

Let me remind you of the jet that Syria shot down before the war escalated.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

How did you deduce that the threat is from the west and not from east, south or north ?

You think that Iran, Iraq, Syria won't stab us in the back ? if Iran can provide missiles to houthis what would prevent them from providing them to some other who're willing to hit Turkey ?

We're on friendly terms with Russia for now, but that won't last.

I think they will if they can but seriously can they?
Syrians are done for and Iranian Air force is a joke since after the Iran-Iraq war and Iraqis what do they have, maybe they might get few F-16s but how competent are they?

 

[OguzSenturk]

Let me remind you of the jet that Syria shot down before the war escalated.

Lmao the ignorance is at it's highest levels

F4s shot down by land-based Syrian anti-air defence system. S-400 is not a surface-to-surface ballistic missile system against land-based anti-air defence systems, but surface-to-air air defence system against aircrafts in the air

Again, they don't have any meaningful airforce to be threat for us

 

[kartal1]

Lmao the ignorance is at it's highest levels

F4s shot down by land-based Syrian anti-air defence system. S-400 is not a surface-to-surface ballistic missile system against land-based anti-air defence systems, but surface-to-air air defence system against aircrafts in the air

Again, they don't have any meaningful airforce to be threat for us

They don't have any meaningful air force now. Syria didn't have also S300 before that. Everything is developing and we must consider the development of our eastern and southern neighbours as we don't have so deep relation with them to just neglect it. A lesson I got from a man that has been responsible for the security of the ex German chancellor Schroder at the time is that the best measure is the preventive measure. I am going for that principle the most of the times and it works like charm. For country like Turkey that is in the hottest spot in the world in which nothing is to be trusted is good to consider every possible threat and to work over various scenarios including air attacks or ballistic missile attacks that we even saw not long ago when the Syrian Arab Army launched Tochka U that fell into Turkish territory. We must be able to defend ourselves from such dangerous and unpredictable to some state actions and be ready to face them in a likely matter. For now we have good relations with Iran considering our regional rivalry but we are not sure what will be our relations after 5-10 years and investments like those are not short term. So we must be able to counter all possible threats no matter from the east or from the west.

 

[OguzSenturk]

They don't have any meaningful air force now. Syria didn't have also S300 before that. Everything is developing and we must consider the development of our eastern and southern neighbours as we don't have so deep relation with them to just neglect it.

I agree to develop our defence capabilities in south-east borders, except air defense systems. You talk about Syria so i will give example from Syria and Turkish-Syrian border.

Syrian currency faced %100...00 devaluation in recent years, thousands of armors, tens of thousands of personnel, millions of manpower, tens of planes/helicopters have been lost in their side.

Lets assume that they somehow collected enough money to buy 20 PAK-FA (they will never have enough money ahaha ), 20 PAK-FA could never be a threat for us neither. But most probably they will go for Su-35 and/or mig-35 as max. Come on now, one fleet of Mig-35 will never be a threat for us

Iran? They have no aerospace industry other than empty propaganda, their fleet rots in hangars due to spare part needs. At max they would buy 1-2 fleet more russian jets or 1 fleet J-31 from China, which will never be a threat towards us.

Iraq? Maybe they would order one more fleet F-16. Who cares?

Cyprus? They cannot even affor one fleet Su-35

There won't be any air threat towards us from East/South in meaningful amount of time. Greece is the only potential air threat with 150+ F-16 and 2 fleet mirage2000, they have relatively decent airforce and best airforce within our neighbors, with the capability of cruise missile strike.

They are the air threat, in Aegean and maybe north-eastern mediterranian sea.

Mark my words, 1 of 2 S-400 battery will be positioned in İzmir, and second one will be stationed in Mersin.

 

[kartal1]

I agree to develop our defence capabilities in south-east borders, except air defense systems. You talk about Syria so i will give example from Syria and Turkish-Syrian border.

Syrian currency faced %100...00 devaluation in recent years, thousands of armors, tens of thousands of personnel, millions of manpower, tens of planes/helicopters have been lost in their side.

Lets assume that they somehow collected enough money to buy 20 PAK-FA (they will never have enough money ahaha ), 20 PAK-FA could never be a threat for us neither. But most probably they will go for Su-35 and/or mig-35 as max. Come on now, one fleet of Mig-35 will never be a threat for us

Iran? They have no aerospace industry other than empty propaganda, their fleet rots in hangars due to spare part needs. At max they would buy 1-2 fleet more russian jets or 1 fleet J-31 from China, which will never be a threat towards us.

Iraq? Maybe they would order one more fleet F-16. Who cares?

Cyprus? They cannot even affor one fleet Su-35

There won't be any air threat towards us from East/South in meaningful amount of time. Greece is the only potential air threat with 150+ F-16 and 2 fleet mirage2000, they have relatively decent airforce and best airforce within our neighbors, with the capability of cruise missile strike.

They are the air threat, in Aegean and maybe north-eastern mediterranian sea.

Mark my words, 1 of 2 S-400 battery will be positioned in İzmir, and second one will be stationed in Mersin.

I am not so concerned about the jets I am concerned more about the ballistic missiles. I am not feeling comfort when I know that Iran can strike every place in Turkey and we don't have a system to counter it. I don't feel comfort about that Syria one failed state can strike on our territory with ballistic missiles. As we know the air defense doesn't mean only defense against air vehicles but also a missile defense.

 

[OguzSenturk]

I am not so concerned about the jets I am concerned more about the ballistic missiles. I am not feeling comfort when I know that Iran can strike every place in Turkey and we don't have a system to counter it

Yes this feels bad. But they will surely not waste multi million bucks ballistic missiles on the farms in Şanlıurfa or on the mountains of Van. They would throw them to either Ankara or İstanbul. S-400s anti-ballistic capabilities are never proven, so we will probably wait for Aselsan-Eurosam's product to defend Ankara-İstanbul etc against ballistic missiles.

So at the end, you can sleep well for mid-term there is no threat toward us from south (as long as PKK removed) and east. The real deal is Greece and it's airforce capabilities.