Turkic speaking countries might create free trade zone

[ASQ-1918]

A good part of Kazakh tribes indeed has Mongol origin. Naiman, Kerei, Jalair, Kereit, Dughlat are obvious Mongol tribes.

 

[Charon]

Turkic people were already mixed from the beginning when they entered the world history. Turkic people evolved in Central Asia and Central Asia was a contact zone between Caucasoids and Mongoloids. It's wrong to say that the Mongoloid admixture in Turkic peoples comes only from Mongols because the Turkics themselves were already Mongoloid admixed before the Mongols. It's true that many Mongolians were turkified but Turkic people have also assimilated many Iranic peoples like Sogdians, Bactrians or Indo-European Tocharian people. Central Asia was inhabited by Indo-Europeans and Iranians before it got overrun by Turkic peoples from the steppes in Mongolia. Wholegrain is absolutely right when he says that Haplogroups are uninteresting when it comes the define the phenotype of an ethnicity. Haplogroups make actually only 1 % of your genes. Autosomal DNA is much more important. The Anatolian Turks are mixture between the native Anatolian population and the Oghuz Turkic newcomers but the Anatolian component in Turks MUST be more signifanct in their genetic heritage than the Turkic component because we cluster closer with Armenians and Iranians in Autosomal DNA and not with Turkmens from Turkmenistan

 

[atatwolf]

What is more popular pan-iranism or pan turkism? Pan Turkism has almost nineteen thousand subscribers compared to thousand sixhundered pan-Iranism subscribers:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pan-Turkism/108095892544982
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pan-Iranism/137717306252259?nr

Pan-Turkism is most popular with Azerbaijni in Azerbaijan and Iran if you look through Pan-Turkism facebook and also with a lot of Tatars from Crimea and Turks from Anatolia. I talked to Turkish professor Umit Ozdag and he says we will see Turkic union within our lifetime.

Here is Umit Ozdag giving lecture at my local mosque about Turkic history(in Turkish).

After his speech I had the chance to speak to him. He is a real nice guy.

 

[Charon]

What is more popular pan-iranism or pan turkism? Pan Turkism has almost nineteen thousand subscribers compared to thousand sixhundered pan-Iranism subscribers:

Pan-Turkism is most popular with Azerbaijni in Azerbaijan and Iran if you look through Pan-Turkism facebook and also with a lot of Tatars from Crimea and Turks from Anatolia. I talked to Turkish professor Umit Ozdag and he says we will see Turkic union within our lifetime.
Here is Umit Ozdag giving lecture at my local mosque about Turkic history(in Turkish).

After his speech I had the chance to speak to him. He is a real nice guy.

Pan ideas whether it be Pan-Turkism or Pan-Iranizm are outdated theories from the 19th century. What do Turks and Kazakhs have in common besides that both speak a related language? Not much because Turks and Kazakhs are not related to each other neither culturally nor genetically only linguistically. The same goes for Iranic peoples. What the hell have Pashtuns and Persians in common? The answer here is nothing. Pashtuns are mountain nomads while Persians have a high culture heritage. Oh and the union is impossible with brutal dictatorship states like Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan

 

[Neptune]

This thread had lost It's purpose as it was already opened at wrong sub-forum. you guys talk about Central Asian Turkic ideologies&history where you started it from a free trade agreement thingy. Thread moved

 

[Wholegrain]

Turkic people were already mixed from the beginning when they entered the world history. Turkic people evolved in Central Asia and Central Asia was a contact zone between Caucasoids and Mongoloids. It's wrong to say that the Mongoloid admixture in Turkic peoples comes only from Mongols because the Turkics themselves were already Mongoloid admixed before the Mongols. It's true that many Mongolians were turkified but Turkic people have also assimilated many Iranic peoples like Sogdians, Bactrians or Indo-European Tocharian people. Central Asia was inhabited by Indo-Europeans and Iranians before it got overrun by Turkic peoples from the steppes in Mongolia. Wholegrain is absolutely right when he says that Haplogroups are uninteresting when it comes the define the phenotype of an ethnicity. Haplogroups make actually only 1 % of your genes. Autosomal DNA is much more important. The Anatolian Turks are mixture between the native Anatolian population and the Oghuz Turkic newcomers but the Anatolian component in Turks MUST be more signifanct in their genetic heritage than the Turkic component because we cluster closer with Armenians and Iranians in Autosomal DNA and not with Turkmens from Turkmenistan

I note that even the nationalist, racist Serbs during the Bosnians Wars had no problems admitting that the Muslims they were killing and raping were fellow Slavs and that they shared the same blood.

Punjabis from Pakistan and India don't claim that Punjabis from the other side are fake just because they dislike each other.

Nobody is asking for Pan Turkists to change their views towards Armenians or start a love Armenia campaign if they admit they share autosomal DNA with them, its not the end of the world. Since the ancient Anatolians and Armenians lived on the same peninsula they were bound to have similar DNA.

Some Turks told me culture is imporant, therefore they prefer to associate their former Ottoman subjects like Bosnians, Albanians, and others while they said they shared nothing with Kazakhs or steppe people. I don't know how much culture you share but I think its more than with Kazakhs. That was their individual opinion.

 

[Arya Desa]

I note that even the nationalist, racist Serbs during the Bosnians Wars had no problems admitting that the Muslims they were killing and raping were fellow Slavs and that they shared the same blood.

Punjabis from Pakistan and India don't claim that Punjabis from the other side are fake just because they dislike each other.

Nobody is asking for Pan Turkists to change their views towards Armenians or start a love Armenia campaign if they admit they share autosomal DNA with them, its not the end of the world. Since the ancient Anatolians and Armenians lived on the same peninsula they were bound to have similar DNA.

Some Turks told me culture is imporant, therefore they prefer to associate their former Ottoman subjects like Bosnians, Albanians, and others while they said they shared nothing with Kazakhs or steppe people. I don't know how much culture you share but I think its more than with Kazakhs. That was their individual opinion.

Original turkish people (Central asians) are obviously mongoloids with some traditionally Caucasian features like light eyes and blonde hair. That doesn't diminish the fact they are Mongoloids and to deny that would be to deny their history.

 

[Yabgu]

Funny how the Chinese and Indian are trying to teach us our own history.

Long live Türkistan. Long live Turan.

 

[atatwolf]

Funny how the Chinese and Indian are trying to teach us our own history.

Long live Türkistan. Long live Turan.

Probably because they all look the same compared to us.

They haijacked this thread and I don't know how they got to the topic of genetics in the first place?

 

[Wholegrain]

Funny how the Chinese and Indian are trying to teach us our own history.

Long live Türkistan. Long live Turan.

Funny, because alot of historical records on ancient Turks were written in Chinese before the Old Turkic alphabet was created. And a kazakh and Tuvan would disagree with MertKaan's attempt at calling them Turkified Mongols. I've talked to a Kazakh and they claim the ancient Turkic peoples were mongoloids, so whose history is it again?

EDIT: you too claimed that the original Turks were not mongoloid on another thread. Tell a Kazakh that he is a fake or turkified and see how he reacts.

EDIT: You were the one who boasted about Timur killing Persians as proof he hated Persians. Timur also attacked and killed Turks as well, he attack the Golden Horde, Delhi Sultanate and the Ottomans.

Probably because they all look the same compared to us.

They haijacked this thread and I don't know how they got to the topic of genetics in the first place?

MertKaan was the one who first accused Kazakhs of being turkified mongols, and said the original Turks were caucasian and all mongoloid Turks were Turkified.

Several Turkish posters on here disagree with him. Are you and Yabgu going to call them Chinese? Are Charon and gr8vision Chinese or Indian?

And believing in Pan turkism and admitting that the original Turks were mongoloids isn't contradictory. I corresponded online with a Pan Turkist who said he had Bosnian ancestry and admitted that Turkish Turks were the most mixed out of all Turkic peoples and that the original Turks were Mongoloids. Its just bigotry being displayed here to Mongoloid Turkic peoples by claiming they are all Turkified Mongols. gr8vision seems to agree with the original turks being mongoloid and pan turkism, Charon just doesn't like pan turkism.

 

[atatwolf]

I don't know anything about Chinese and Indian ancestry. Some how you guys are experts on genetics and know everything better.

Turks had empires from Europe to Asia since the time of the Huns. Of course we are going to be more diverse than Chinese and Indian who always stayed in the same place. This is no brainer. Turks are no genetic Nazi's about this.

Only certain people are obsessed about genetics. At the end I don't know how this has to do with Turkic union or Turkic relations on government level.

 

[Wholegrain]

I don't know anything about Chinese and Indian ancestry. Some how you guys are experts on genetics and know everything better.

Turks had empires from Europe to Asia since the time of the Huns. Of course we are going to be more diverse than Chinese and Indian who always stayed in the same place. This is no brainer. Turks are no genetic Nazi's about this.

Only certain people are obsessed about genetics. At the end I don't know how this has to do with Turkic union or Turkic relations on government level.

Then why is MertKaan shoving his pie charts of Turkic Y chromosome DNA on several threads and claiming mongoloid Turks are turkified mongols? We also have several Turkic peoples living in China and genetic tests have been done on them too, and we have thousands and hundreds of year old records on northern nomads including Turkic peoples written in Chinese. You don't have alot of Chinese people in Turkey so you obviously wouldn't know as much about Chinese ancestry.

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

Central Asians Turks Mongolian paternal Y-DNA is actually more common than maternal mtDNA. However. at the same Siberian mtDNA in Turks are much higher than Siberian Y-DNA Q, N. Even some of the Central Asian Turks including Turkish with R1a are derived from part Mongoloid men with R1a,



Interracial marriage predominately Mongoloid Y-DNA and Caucasoid mtDNA

Kazakhs
Crimean Tatars
Uzbeks Afghan
Hazara
Mongolians
Buryats
Kalmyks

Interracial marriage predominately Caucasoid Y-DNA and Mongoloid mtDNA

Kyrgyz
Uzbek
Uyghur
Nogais
Turkish
Turkmen.
Altay
Tajik
Karakalpak


However if Nogais were descendants of Kypchaks it means they were a mixture of Eurasian and Mongoloid. And if Tocharians originally had 58% Mongoloid mtDNA and still look Caucasoid that means the Uyghurs imported 32% Mongoloid paternal DNA but very little mongoloid maternal DNA.



IN MIDDLE EAST
------------------

Mainly Asian paternal DNA and mainly Caucasian maternal DNA.



HAZARA

UZBEKS AFGHAN


TURKMEN IN AFGHAN AND PAKISTAN.

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

The truth is historically in Central Asia it was more like mostly Mongoloid males and part Mongoloid men wmating with mostly Caucasoid women and Turanid women. If we include the fact that ancient Turks had 47% Caucasoid Y-DNA and 27% Caucasoid mtDNA like Altay people.

The history of Turks are much more complicated.

Ars Orientalis: The Arts of Islam and the East, Volume 4


" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population. [4] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid. [5] "


The burials suggested that half Mongoloid men with R1a mated with women who were fully Europoid. I finally understand why Kyrgyz can look so mongoloid despite having 60% R1a and 27-42% Caucasoid mtDNA.

 

[Charon]

Funny, because alot of historical records on ancient Turks were written in Chinese before the Old Turkic alphabet was created. And a kazakh and Tuvan would disagree with MertKaan's attempt at calling them Turkified Mongols. I've talked to a Kazakh and they claim the ancient Turkic peoples were mongoloids, so whose history is it again?

EDIT: you too claimed that the original Turks were not mongoloid on another thread. Tell a Kazakh that he is a fake or turkified and see how he reacts.

EDIT: You were the one who boasted about Timur killing Persians as proof he hated Persians. Timur also attacked and killed Turks as well, he attack the Golden Horde, Delhi Sultanate and the Ottomans.



MertKaan was the one who first accused Kazakhs of being turkified mongols, and said the original Turks were caucasian and all mongoloid Turks were Turkified.

Several Turkish posters on here disagree with him. Are you and Yabgu going to call them Chinese? Are Charon and gr8vision Chinese or Indian?

And believing in Pan turkism and admitting that the original Turks were mongoloids isn't contradictory. I corresponded online with a Pan Turkist who said he had Bosnian ancestry and admitted that Turkish Turks were the most mixed out of all Turkic peoples and that the original Turks were Mongoloids. Its just bigotry being displayed here to Mongoloid Turkic peoples by claiming they are all Turkified Mongols. gr8vision seems to agree with the original turks being mongoloid and pan turkism, Charon just doesn't like pan turkism.

It's not like that I hate or dislike Pan-Turkism. I just can't see any sense at it. Turkic peoples evolved themselves culturally in diferent directions. The sedentary Uzbeks and Uyghurs are mostly religious with cultural Persian influence while the nomadic Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are mainly secular muslims with heavily cultural Russian influence. We all know what happened 2010 in South Kyrgysztan where Kyrgyz and Uzbeks killed themselves each other. I also don't want to it that Turkey joins in an union with oprressing dictatorships like Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. I love the steppe culture of Turkic peoples or Mongols but I can't see any chance that Turkic peoples could create an union altogether