Turkey to fast-track draft bill approving troop deployment in Qatar: Officials

[UkroTurk]

I have always wondered why can't we hear of any scientific or literary accomplishments under the rule of the Ottoman empire? Why aren't there Avecine, Ibn Rush, Alrazi, Ibn Khaldoun, Ibn Arabi...etc in all of the hundreds of years they have ruled over vast parts of the world?

Because they were drunk all time. They drank Turkish rakı and ate shish kebap and watching belly dance. But the Christian europeanians were frightened god and they didn't drink any alcohol.
Thanks to their religion europa was able to organize endustrial revolution.
For me more interesting if the Egyptians had won the 73 war ,why they couldn't have return all Sinai peninsula? Why did UN make order?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Arabs have already defeated two of the biggest civilisations in the world.. read about Khalid Ibn Al walid and the historical decisive "Battle of Yormuk".. there is a thread on it in this forum Section..historical battle..
The Arabs took the conquests as far as India in the East, and Morocco and Spain to the West and deep into Africa in the South.. The Ottomans were took it North , and those wars were the results..

As I wrote Arabs conquered like 95% of the conquered lands by Muslims and those that were not conquered directly by Arabs, Arabs were the first one to propagandize Islam to those lands as explained in detail in post 331.

The new territory that they conquered to the Muslim world is tiny Kosovo, half of Bosnia and the Turkish minority, less than 1 million, in Bulgaria. Those are the lands that remain Muslim. Other than that tiny Balkans (not even all of it) and Greece. That's the new territory that Ottomans conquered in 400 years (!) of history!

Even Arabs were at the gates of Constantinople (several times in fact) when real Turks were still roaming the steppe leaving nothing of worth. Not even a single World UNESCO Heritage Site. Those sieges occurred at a time when the Byzantine was still a powerful empire and not a joke like it was 600 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(717–718)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(674–678)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Byzantine_wars

All this while controlling a vastly bigger empire and caliphate than the Ottomans did.

I have always wondered why can't we hear of any scientific or literary accomplishments under the rule of the Ottoman empire? Why aren't there Avecine, Ibn Rush, Alrazi, Ibn Khaldoun, Ibn Arabi...etc in all of the hundreds of years they have ruled over vast parts of the world?

Have you ever heard about science and Turks in pre-Islamic times being mentioned in the same sentence or even any heritage? Never. There is a reason why Turkish scientists, poets and scholars (well-known Islamic ones) can be counted on 2 hands. Also there is a reason why there is almost no Turkic heritage in Central Asia. I don't think there is a single World UNESCO Heritage Site in Central Asia (non-nature one) that is a testimony of anything that they have left to mankind. Not even a single continuously inhabited city. Compare that with World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Petra (voted as the new 7 wonder of the world), Mada'in Saleh, Hatra, Palmyra, Bosra, Avdat etc. just built by Nabatean Arabs from Hijaz alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans

Jane Taylor, a writer, describes them as "one of the most gifted peoples of the ancient world".[2]

1. Taylor, Jane (2001). Petra and the Lost Kingdom of the Nabataeans. London, United Kingdom: I.B.Tauris. pp. centerfold, 14. The Nabataean Arabs, one of the most gifted peoples of the ancient world, are today known only for their hauntingly beautiful rock-carved capital — Petra.

Islamic Golden Age and all. Enough said.

They can deny it all they want but those are well-known facts. Anyway have in mind that the Turks of modern-day Turkey are Turkified Armenians, Greeks, Arabs (yes - even today millions of Turkish Arabs live in Turkey - those that have not lost their identity yet), Assyrians, Circassians, Bosnians, Albanians, Kurds etc. So they can't really claim some Turkish steppe dynasties from Central Asia.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

I have always wondered why can't we hear of any scientific or literary accomplishments under the rule of the Ottoman empire? Why aren't there Avecine, Ibn Rush, Alrazi, Ibn Khaldoun, Ibn Arabi...etc in all of the hundreds of years they have ruled over vast parts of the world?

Two of those you mentioned are Persian scholars, Al Razi and Avicenna. Most scientific discovers are from the knowledge and works of predecessors, Muslims took knowledge wherever they went, from Persians, Chinese, Greek etc

 

[Baybars Han]

As I wrote Arabs conquered like 95% of the conquered lands by Muslims and those that were not conquered directly by Arabs, Arabs were the first one to propagandize Islam to those lands as explained in detail in post 331.

The new territory that they conquered to the Muslim world is tiny Kosovo, half of Bosnia and the Turkish minority, less than 1 million, in Bulgaria. Those are the lands that remain Muslim. Other than that tiny Balkans (not even all of it) and Greece. That's the new territory that Ottomans conquered in 400 years (!) of history!

Even Arabs were at the gates of Constantinople (several times in fact) when real Turks were still roaming the steppe leaving nothing of worth. Not even a single World UNESCO Heritage Site. Those sieges occurred at a time when the Byzantine was still a powerful empire and not a joke like it was 600 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(717–718)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Constantinople_(674–678)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Byzantine_wars

All this while controlling a vastly bigger empire and caliphate than the Ottomans did.



Have you ever heard about science and Turks in pre-Islamic times being mentioned in the same sentence or even any heritage? Never. There is a reason why Turkish scientists, poets and scholars (well-known Islamic ones) can be counted on 2 hands. Also there is a reason why there is almost no Turkic heritage in Central Asia. I don't think there is a single World UNESCO Heritage Site in Central Asia (non-nature one) that is a testimony of anything that they have left to mankind. Not even a single continuously inhabited city. Compare that with World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Petra (voted as the new 7 wonder of the world), Mada'in Saleh, Hatra, Palmyra, Bosra, Avdat etc. just built by Nabatean Arabs from Hijaz alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans

Jane Taylor, a writer, describes them as "one of the most gifted peoples of the ancient world".[2]

1. Taylor, Jane (2001). Petra and the Lost Kingdom of the Nabataeans. London, United Kingdom: I.B.Tauris. pp. centerfold, 14. The Nabataean Arabs, one of the most gifted peoples of the ancient world, are today known only for their hauntingly beautiful rock-carved capital — Petra.

Islamic Golden Age and all. Enough said.

The Romans was smaller than most empires that you talk about, it was way smaller than the Russian or french empires but it's impact was 20x more. You seem to know Jack about history.

Sorry but the truth it Turks pissed on Arabs and everyone wherever it went.

 

[xenon54 out]

I am talking about literary and scientific giants that created scientific disciplines and impacted the world and are world renowned and not some obscure people that only Turks know.

Some of them are quite famous, like Piri Reis for exsample, its your ignorance that makes you believe only Turks know them.
Wanna present your list of Maroccan Schoolars and Scientists? I dont know any, and this is a genuine question, im interested in learning new stuff.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I am talking about literary and scientific giants that created scientific disciplines and impacted the world and are world renowned and not some obscure people that only Turks know.

Took a look at a few of them as well. Most are called "Ottoman" which is not an ethnicity. Some were of unclear origin. I would expect many of those to be non-Turkic just like Barbarossa that they claim was a Turk despite being the son of an Albanian and a Greek mother!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayreddin_Barbarossa

So to them non-Turkic people, just as long as they are part of the Ottoman empire, (Arabs formed the by far largest percentage of the population) they are Turks and they will claim them! I have even seen them claim Arab Ottoman personalities as Turks!

Most of their elites in the military were actually non-Turks but recent converts from the Balkans. In fact Turk was an insult during Ottoman times.

Just like the Ottoman Sultans who intermarried with non-Turks all the time.

Özay Mehmet wrote in his book Islamic Identity and Development: Studies of the Islamic Periphery:[28]

“ The ordinary Turks [Turkmen, or Yörüks] did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "In the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages." (Lewis 1968: 1)
In the words of a British observer of the Ottoman values and institutions at the start of the twentieth century: "The surest way to insult an Ottoman gentleman is to call him a 'Turk'. His face will straightway wear the expression a Londoner's assumes, when he hears himself frankly styled a Cockney. He is no Turk, no savage, he will assure you, but an Ottoman subject of the Sultan, by no means to be confounded with certain barbarians styled Turcomans, and from whom indeed, on the male side, he may possibly be descended." (Davey 1907: 209)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism

The words of a Turkish historian.

 

[Alithemoor1]

Two of those you mentioned are Persian scholars, Al Razi and Avicenna. Most scientific discovers are from the knowledge and works of predecessors, Muslims took knowledge wherever they went, from Persians, Chinese, Greek etc

They spoke Arabic, studied and lived and flourished under Arab Rule. Arab is not a race by the way.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

Why dafuq dont mods intervene and ban this troll Sharif al Hijaz aka Saif al Arab who got banned recently. Guy turns every thread into a pissing contest.

 

[xenon54 out]

Took a look at view of them as well. Most are called "Ottoman" which is not an ethnicity. Some were of unclear origin. I would expect many of those to be non-Turkic just like Barbarossa that they claim was a Turk despite being the son of an Albanian and a Greek mother!

I bet they were all Arabs, in fact all ethnicities originate from Arabia, thats what you claimed once no?

 

[Arabi]

I have always wondered why can't we hear of any scientific or literary accomplishments under the rule of the Ottoman empire? Why aren't there Avecine, Ibn Rush, Alrazi, Ibn Khaldoun, Ibn Arabi...etc in all of the hundreds of years they have ruled over vast parts of the world?

Unlike Abbasid and Banu Umayya, those Osmanili Khalifahs don't understand or believe in science, they even banned the use of Printer in 1490s under the rule of Bayezid II when he decided to make a stupid Ferman to ban it just because the Jewish brought it to the Ottomans.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Unlike Abbasid and Banu Umayya, those Osmanili Khalifahs don't understand or believe in science, they even banned the use of Printer in 1490s under the rule of Bayezid II when he decided to make a stupid Ferman to ban it just because the Jewish brought it to the Ottomans.

I have heard that none of them even made a single pilgrimage to Makkah and Madinah in their lifetime. So much for the Caliphs but what to expect from people who stole the Caliphate after 1000 years of Arab rule and even had the audacity to steal the ancient Arabian heritage of Prophet Muhammad (saws) and his family and Sahaba. Now they parade it like it was their heritage. A joke. Just like science under the Ottomans and Islamic conquests of non-Muslim lands was.

Combine that with the Ataturk brainwashing, not being capable of acknowledging scientific facts (DNA), falsifying history and you have a dangerous cocktail. No wonder that the Turks here are barking in a thread about an internal Arab matter and are hostile.

Anyway as you can see I dealt with them single-handedly as usual whenever somebody barks about Arabs on this forum. It's time for me to give that mantel away. Hopefully very soon.

 

[The SC]

These arabs never tired of being owned... Again and again... I like it

Well, we are more democratic, we did not think that we have owned you apart from the Mamluks, but coming up with a list of Turkik countries in the past was not impressive at all,, Since the Arab conquests started in the 600s there were only 2 places on that list for Turkik origins.. the rest, were Mongolian left overs in Europe or Muslim Khanate in the East..

And the names on the second list are all Muslim names with Egyptian, Turkish, Iranian and Arabic connotations ..
I do not want to take anything from the Turks, they were great but the Arabs were also great and very great.. there is a little secret all my Turkish friends and brothers should know: When the Turks of the Ottoman empire started to look down on the Arabs.. they have lost that empire.. You can do your search and find out the facts..This is only for history and geopolitical students..

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

They spoke Arabic, studied and lived and flourished under Arab Rule. Arab is not a race by the way.

Your friend here Sharif would argue otherwise since he keeps going on about Arab DNA.

Yes Arabic was the scholarly language at that time in the Muslim world, that doesn't make them Arab.

BTW no one is arguing regarding Arabs who made some very significant discoveries. Science was flourishing under Abbasids, Ummayads, Andalusia etc its just that no one is buying this shit that Arabs ruled over Turks when it was quite the opposite.

 

[GOLDENEAGLE1]

Selcuklulara Pers demek ne acayip bir ahmakliktir?

 

[xenon54 out]

Unlike Abbasid and Banu Umayya, those Osmanili Khalifahs don't understand or believe in science, they even banned the use of Printer in 1490s under the rule of Bayezid II when he decided to make a stupid Ferman to ban it just because the Jewish brought it to the Ottomans.

Yeah and you seem to have stuck in time....

There is virtually no Jewish activity in Saudi Arabia in the beginning of the 21st century. Jewish (as well as Christian and other non-Muslim) religious services are prohibited from being held on Saudi Arabian soil.[11] When American military personnel were stationed in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, permission for small Christian worship services was eventually granted, but Jewish services were only permitted on US warships.[11] Census data does not identify any Jews as residing within Saudi Arabian territory.[12]

Persons with an Israeli government stamp in their passport or who are openly Jewish are generally not permitted into the Kingdom. In the 1970s, foreigners wishing to work in the kingdom had to sign an affidavit stating that they were not Jewish[13] and official government forms granting foreigners permission to enter or exit the country, do ask for religious affiliation.

During the first Gulf War, American servicemen and women who were Jewish were allowed into the kingdom, but religious services had to be held discreetly on base and alternative "Protestant B" dog tags were created, in the event that a Jewish serviceman or woman was taken prisoner in Iraq.[14]

In late December 2014, the newspaper Al-Watan reported that the Saudi Labor ministry website permits foreign workers of a variety of different faiths, including Judaism, to live and work in Saudi Arabia. A source within the ministry said, in effect, that Israelis were not allowed to enter Saudi Arabia, but Jews of other nationalities would not have the entry ban applied to them.[15] In practice Christians and Jews may hold religious services but only in their homes and may not invite Muslims.

Selcuklulara Pers demek ne acayip bir ahmakliktir?

Pers yazmadim birdaha oku, okadar cok biliyosaniz birazda siz yazin amk zaten yoruldum.