Turkey to develop new medium combat aircraft

[Saithan]

?? You guys lost me there. I was there up until Deino's previous post, and yes, some turks here are quite overzealous and exaggerate quite a bit. And their enthusiasm can be very annoying because there isn't a shred of realism with regards to the time frame for the projects success.

Some of us wants more realistic timeframe and less guessing and unrealistic opinions

 

[Mr.Department]

In current development schedule,

-Hurjet won't have a partner/know-how/consultancy provider (not planned at present)
-Avionics/EW/communication/mission computer package will be upgraded variant of alredy developed systems.
-Engine will be domestic in mid/long term since there is a serious efforts to develop domestic gas turbine engines but In short term, Engines will be provided from foreign sources.
-Hurjet is not a wish or propaganda but a pure reality. She may delay/meet some difficulties on roadway but she will reach the sky sooner or later.

Thanks for confirmation .

 

[Bismarck]

Mr. Sensitive; when ever you start respect our projects and blog, that moment we ll start respect your opinion. Till that moment, suck it up, boy.

Let’s take the other way. Is it allowed to criticize Turkish defense projects or impeach future projects? What about utter opinions? Please a clear and unequivocally answer please.

 

[YoungTurk01]

Let’s take the other way. Is it allowed to criticize Turkish defense projects or impeach future projects? What about utter opinions? Please a clear and unequivocally answer please.

Welcome back Bismarck. If his criticisms positive way, with details, I don’t mind to listen to him. Please go for it.

And my argument is simply the experience: If TAI want to "indigenise" the design similar to China by adding new engines, new avionics, maybe some airframe changes and so on it WILL need more than three years, that's a fact.

So either You accept that and do a realistic estimation or it simply cannot be a M-346-derived design. Even three years for a M-346 alone manufactured in Turkey is a heavy task ...

And by the way the credibility of TAI concerning its announcements and the facts it delivers is another proof how irrational, impossible this timeline is.

When the first image of the contender for the US TX contest was posted some guys were claiming it is a close to ready-to-fly design ... it was a lousily made mock-up, nothing more and now the design for that jet was changed again leading to the assumption that not even the former design was finished ... and You claim in three years it will fly and even be certified.

Nothing will happen until then. If TAI manages to get that design ready by then would be a tremendous achievement alone ... by the way did anyone already speak to Alenia-Leonardo Aerospace?? You did not even include the negotiations on being allowed to base Your proposal on that design.



But that was the UK, Germany and Italy together at the height of the cold was with all three a tremendous expertise in designing & developing military aircraft ... and now You have Turkey alone with none such experiences, only licence production and by the way You guys want also to develop a plethora of additional projects like the TFX, these helicopters, UAVs ... in parallel; IMO forget it. Pure propaganda.

Deino

Kotil sad 2022 first flight, I say it ll be earlier, 2019 ish. That’s not bs. Watch and see.

 

[Deino]

Kotil sad 2022 first flight, I say it ll be earlier, 2019 ish. That’s not bs. Watch and see.

Pardon, but that is BS ... pure BS at its best.

If Kotil says 2022 it is already a quite difficult to achieve scheduled but 2019 without any hard facts so far known, a "would like to use the M-346 as a basis dreaming and a mock up of an older configuration available, how could anyone take 2019 seriously.
Or are You the designer?

And by the way if You don't stop ranting, insulting and being aggressive You will face the consequences.

Just to remind: respect needs to be earned ... but not by nationalistic bashing and post like Yours.

Grow up my friend and swallow Your national pride before You write.
Deino

 

[Mr.Department]

Pardon, but that is BS

@Deino
You could lower tension too writing "irrealistic" but not BS.
Unfortunately you can't read Turkish Military Forums or other platforms.
There are more and more informations "leaked". The most important are:

1: Avionics are ready - from Hürkus
2: EW suites are ready
3: Most weapon systems are ready, some in development ( AA missiles )
4: For the initial models "imported" engines will be used
possible are Motors Sich or FJ44 series engines excluded from ITAR
5: Final design not decided , no " official partner" announced - but not also not definitely excluded

Here is a weekly updated source of the activities.

https://duyguadem.wordpress.com/tag/hurjet/

 

[Deino]

You could lower tension too writing "irrealistic" but not BS.
Unfortunately you can't read Turkish Military Forums or other platforms.
There are more and more informations "leaked". The most important are:

1: Avionics are ready
2: EW suites are ready
3: Most weapon systems are ready, some in development ( AA missiles )
4: For the initial models "imported" engines will be used
5: Final design not decided , no " official partner" announced - but not also not definitely excluded

Ok. ... but even then it is completely unrealistic and to assume such a post as irrational does not require anyone to read Turkish; for that You only need common sense!

Alone the still open points 4 & 5 make that alleged date of 2019 predicted above impossible.
Finalising a design, esp. when not decided yet and no partner found yet as well as engine integration makes a scheduled of two years so much unlikely that it is only to be called BS. This is as ridiculous as some members claims that the J-20 already uses a +210 kN serial WS-15 + TVC and Mach 3 capability from day one. There's no need to discuss something like that and even less to take such a poster seriously. That fan-boyism of its best.

Deino

 

[Mr.Department]

date of 2019 predicted

That's not my comment. I quoted TAI - CEO who claimed that it will be 2022 in the air and my arguments were based on it, when I predicted 3-4 years from 2018 on.

http://www.airnewstimes.com/hurjet-ilk-ucusunu-2022-de-yapacak-39250-haberi.html

 

[Deino]

Despite answers based on official documents/announcements and already on-the-table sub-systems, your respond is based on your gut and comparision to other jet development progresses.

You are simply trolling members and ruining the thread. Otherwise, you would have enlightened us on what could not be achieved till 2022.

Since you start to threaten members trolled by you, @cabatli_53 ... How long the troll keep trolling members and ruining the thread, and threaten to use his/her title over trolled members?

The problem is that currently nearly all Turkish official information are so much over-hyped, nearly no-one outside the fan-boy-community and all with true aerospace understanding are shaking their heads.

It is simply impossible what TAI all plans to develop (from rockets to carriers, from 10t helicopters to the TFX), none of these technical predictions, timeframe proposals are realistic and even more given TAI's experience, the allocated budget, the general political situation and economics everyone with the slightest common sense knows that it is impossible.

If You would tell me Mr. Kotil will walk on water next week You will surely believe him ... but common sense says it does not work.
You cannot exclude the laws of physics and in the same way you cannot develop a medium weight combat aircraft within 3-5 years; esp. if from scratch.

But If You guys think I'm trolling please go ahead and report me to another moderator: I'm eager to see what will happen.

Deino

 

[Jinn Baba]

The fighter variant of the Hurjet trainer jet will have nine weapon hardpoints and attachments for a 3-tonne payload. It can be deployed in ground support roles, including air-to-ground attack, tactical, close air support and interdiction with precision guided munitions.

3 tonnes is quite low for a medium fighter. F16s carry more than twice that; and even the JF17 (light weight fighter) can carry 1.5 tonnes more.

So why such a low payload on a twin engine medium size aircraft?

 

[Mr.Department]

3 tonnes is quite low for a medium fighter

Hürjet is an advanced jet trainer, which can be armed.
Isn't too low, the latest version of the F5-E Tiger II could carry 3.200 kg weapon load max.
The Franco - German Trainer- CAS Alpha-Jet could carry 2.200 kg.

http://defence-blog.com/news/turkey-to-develop-new-medium-combat-aircraft.html

Same load

http://defence-blog.com/news/ukraine-to-develop-new-light-strike-aircraft.html

or
http://defence-blog.com/news/china-unveils-new-l-15b-light-attack-aircraft.html

 

[Deino]

Still no argument to back up your gut; but more trolling.

The thread, Mr. Kotil or members here do not have any obligation to satisfy your gut, attention-hungry; but interested in any logic-based arguments, if you have any.

The situation you put yourself in also dents the reputation of PDF, if any.

The funny part is that You demand me to prove my claims while in return You are proposing things that so far no-one made before.

So please tell me; who's the one who has to prove his claims and who has to show evidence?

It's always easy to tell others a troll only since they remain sceptical.

 

[Hareeb]

IMO, 2022 deadline could be a bit realistic for first flight but not for the final product or induction. Its not like you have to assemble the parts and start flying it.

 

[YoungTurk01]

Pardon, but that is BS ... pure BS at its best.
I ll remind to you in 2019
If Kotil says 2022 it is already a quite difficult to achieve scheduled but 2019 without any hard facts so far known, a "would like to use the M-346 as a basis dreaming and a mock up of an older configuration available, how could anyone take 2019 seriously.
Or are You the designer?

And by the way if You don't stop ranting, insulting and being aggressive You will face the consequences.

Just to remind: respect needs to be earned ... but not by nationalistic bashing and post like Yours.

Grow up my friend and swallow Your national pride before You write.
Deino

 

[cabatli_53]

Don't stick around the years too much. Delays are the nature of such complicated aerial projects. Important thing is Turkish industry has a serious (shocking level for someone) vision to achieve the planned projects to establish one of the most deterrent army receiving the power from own engineering sources for not only fuselage but also transmission, engine, landing gears and avionics...etc

Fighter Group
-TF-X
-Hurjet-F

Trainer Group
-Hurjet-T
-Hurkus family

Attack Helicopter Group
-T-129 Atak
-Atak-2

Utility Helicopter Group
-3t Utility
-6t T-625
-10t Utility

Drone Group
-Bayraktar TB-2
-Anka family (200kg payload)
-Anka-2 family (750kg payload)
-Akinci (4,5t) family

No need to mention about Missile/bomb/smart bomb projects !