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Turkey shoots down "Russian Jet" near border

McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake'

The former Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force said that Turkey shooting down a Russian plane was a "very bad mistake and showed poor judgment."

Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney said on "Real Story" that a radar tracking map shows the plane crossing the very tip of Turkey, which he estimated lasted for 20-40 seconds, and on a trajectory back toward Syria.

McInerney said that while he was a NORAD commander in Alaska they would never have done anything like this.

"This airplane was not making any maneuvers to attack the territory," McInerney said. "It was probably pressing the limits, that's fair. But you don't shoot 'em down just because of that."

Turkey maintains that it issued 10 warnings in a five-minute span to the Russian aircraft.

McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake' | Fox News Insider
 
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Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

Moscow plans to suspend military cooperation with Ankara after the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish air forces, Russian General Staff representatives said on Tuesday. Further measures to beef up Russian air base security in Syria will also be taken.

Three steps as announced by top brass:

1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets

2. Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger

3. Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended


Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.

Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber.

The Turkish fighter jet made no attempts to contact Russian pilots before attacking the bomber, Rudskoy added.

We assume the strike was carried out with a close range missile with an infra-red seeker,” Rudskoy said. “The Turkish jet made no attempts to communicate or establish visual contact with our crew that our equipment would have registered. The Su-24 was hit by a missile over Syria’s territory.”

Russia now plans to implement new measures aimed at strengthening the security of the country’s air base in Syria and in particular to bolster air defense.

Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva, equipped with the ‘Fort’ air defense system, similar to the S-300, will be deployed off Latakia province's coast.

"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.

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The Moskva (‘Moscow’) missile cruise is a flagship vessel of the Russian Black Sea fleet and is one of the fleet’s two biggest ships. The cruiser was stationed in Sevastopol but left in summer 2015 after being deployed to the Mediterranean Sea where it joined Russia’s standing naval force in the Mediterranean.

Since September 30, the Moskva cruiser acts as a covering force for the Russian air forces in Syria while deployed in the eastern Mediterranean.

All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended,” Rudskoy added.

Turkey claims that it downed the Russian bomber in Turkish airspace after the plane was given 10 warnings in the space of five minutes as it approached the country’s territory.

"Nobody should doubt that we made our best efforts to avoid this latest incident. But everyone should respect the right of Turkey to defend its borders," Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said in a speech in Ankara.

"The data we have is very clear. There were two planes approaching our border, we warned them as they were getting too close," another senior Turkish official told Reuters.

"Our findings show clearly that Turkish air space was violated multiple times. And they violated it knowingly."

US President Barack Obama and his French counterpart Francois Hollande urged Russia and Turkey away from further escalation during a meeting in Washington, while NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg voiced the alliance’s support for Turkey.

A US military spokesman also said that the incident involves only Turkey and Russia and does not affect the US-led campaign in Syria, which will continue “as planned”.

Russia's president Vladimir Putin on Wednesday accused Turkey's leadership of deliberately supporting Islamification in its country and said Russia was sending its S-400 missile system to Syria to defend its airbase.
 
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By what measure? Militarily that would be France or Econmically it would be Germany.

Numbers.

Turkey has the largest NATO military in Europe (second largest in entire NATO only surpassed by the U.S).
 
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Stop saying that. Our F-16 fired the missile from 60 km inside of our borders. Just shut up.
Which is totally against established protocols- No visual identification was made and no visual warnings issued.

Russia and Turkey are not at war, what reason did the TuAF have to shoot down a Russian plane from 60km away for entering into their territory for 17 seconds? This is just getting more and more absurd. This is not how a mature nation or proffesional military behaves- 17 seconds???

The more one looks at it the more one comes to the conclusion this was about Turkey's dislike for the fact that Russia was cutting off their ISIS oil supply and targetting the "moderate" terrorists close to the Turkish border. Turkey's blatant duplicity in this entire ISIS campaign has not gone unnoticed by the rest of the world (especially NATO) so don't expect NATO to come to Turkey's defence- Turkey has left itself isolated in this matter and is entirely on the wrong side of history, ISIS supporters aren't going to be permitted by either Russia or NATO.


+ I have to say, on the global stage Turkey has set itself back decades by its actions. There was already growing discontent for the level of duplicty Turkey was exhibiting in the anti-ISIS efforts but to have escalated what should have been a non-incident to such a level has exhibited to the world that Turkey has completly gone off the deep end, it is no longer the sole beacon for hope in that region. Forget about EU membership and any other multi-lateral sweetners.

[QUOTE="Abingdonboy, post: 7921887, member: 28303"
By what measure? Militarily that would be France or Econmically it would be Germany.



Numbers.

Turkey has the largest NATO military in Europe (second largest in entire NATO only surpassed by the U.S).
Numbers aren't everything. The most capable military in NATO after the US is France and by some margin.
 
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McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake'



McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake' | Fox News Insider
Can any members from Turkey respond to this? This is the former commander of NORAD speaking, his entire purpose for a long time was making these kinds of decsions (especially post 9/11) and is well versed in interception protocols and threat analysis. Who exactly gave the authority for the TuAF to shoot? This is the most pressing question that has remained unanswered, it doesn't matter if the plane was in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds, 40 seconds or 10 minuets. Who exactly deemed the threat to Turkey credible enough that it required the use of lethal force?

Please don't parrot this "we protected our sovereignty" line- it is entirely BS. Your own radar trace shows the plane was on a course to EXIT your airspace and was NEVER flying inwards into Turkish territory. The fact that the Russian plane was engaged whilst at when BVR makes it that bit more unpalatable.

What the TuAF did was entirely outside of NATO and all professional military interception guidlines and there needs to be some accountability. If it was the President then he needs to be made to answer what his agenda is, I find it hard to beleive a NATO member with supposedely world-class pilots would be so foolish.
 
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Hypocrisy is in the Iranian users whom backed Syria when they downed our jet. Now you are backing Syria and Russia when we down their aircraft in a similar fashion as they did to ours.

Syria is in quasi state of war with Turkey, but Russia is not. Turkey is transferring armed people to Syria to overthrow its gov, no country in the world tolerates that, so you can't complain about Syria downing your jet.

But Russia has good relations with you (or had) and Erdogan tried to play the smartass role. Now we will see who stands to lose more from this, Turkey or Russia. I'll ask your opinion about this in few weeks.
 
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Which is totally against established protocols- No visual identification was made and no visual warnings issued.

Russia and Turkey are not at war, what reason did the TuAF have to shoot down a Russian plane from 60km away for entering into their territory for 17 seconds? This is just getting more and more absurd. This is not how a mature nation or proffesional military behaves- 17 seconds???

The more one looks at it the more one comes to the conclusion this was about Turkey's dislike for the fact that Russia was cutting off their ISIS oil supply and targetting the "moderate" terrorists close to the Turkish border. Turkey's blatant duplicity in this entire ISIS campaign has not gone unnoticed by the rest of the world (especially NATO) so don't expect NATO to come to Turkey's defence- Turkey has left itself isolated in this matter and is entirely on the wrong side of history, ISIS supporters aren't going to be permitted by either Russia or NATO.


+ I have to say, on the global stage Turkey has set itself back decades by its actions. There was already growing discontent for the level of duplicty Turkey was exhibiting in the anti-ISIS efforts but to have escalated what should have been a non-incident to such a level has exhibited to the world that Turkey has completly gone off the deep end, it is no longer the sole beacon for hope in that region. Forget about EU membership and any other multi-lateral sweetners.


Numbers aren't everything. The most capable military in NATO after the US is France and by some margin.

ISIS supply line run through Turkey. Plus they are buying Oil From ISIS not to mention↓
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The Assad regime, supported by Hezbollah and Iranian forces and Russia by the air and sea, continues to attack the Bayirbucak region, close to Turkish border, inhabited by Turkmen.

The intensification of the attacks in the last period shows that Russia aims to give more power to President Bashar al-Assad before sitting at the negotiation table with the opposition forces, in accordance with the conclusion of the Vienna talks last week.

Russia has also been attacking the Bayirbucak Turkmen region since Sept. 30, when it began an air ‘counterterrorism’ campaign in Syria.

Russia, known for 'coordinating' fighting in the region between regime forces and Turkmen units, intervenes in the situation by attacking Turkmen Mountain with missiles from warships in the Mediterranean.

Regime forces, supported by Russia’s air campaign, are staging a ground operation in the region.

The attacks began in the southeastern Gimam village while, for the last five days, Russian jets have intensively bombed Acisu, Firinlik and Red Mountain (Kizildag) regions in Bayirbucak.

Hezbollah and Iranian forces, fighting actively in the region for about two years, also support the operation.

According to local sources, Gimam, Hill 45, Zuveyk village, Acisu intersection and the Red Mountain hill region have passed into the control of Assad regime forces.
Turkmen Mountain

The head of Turkmen Parliament in Syria, Abdurrahman Mustafa, says that various motivations lay behind Russia’s rising attacks against Turkmen Mountain.

He said that in the short run, Russia’s aim is to give military superiority to the Assad regime, and to sit down as powerful as possible at the negotiation table.

“The Turkmen Mountain is a buffer zone in the coastal region,” Mustafa said, adding that it is a region that has remained between Antakya and “Latakia, which is Assad’s castle”.

He said that in the case of the Assad regime taking control of Turkmen Mountain it could then pose a threat to Turkey.

Mustafa said that Assad aims to include the strategic region of Turkmen Mountain inside the borders of the Nusrayi state.

Mustafa, speaking also about a possible Kurdish zone, said that the “fall of the Turkmen Mountain will provide an opportunity for Kurds to come to the Mediterranean shore”.

Mustafa said that the protection of the Turkmen presence in Bayirbucak region would also be an obstacle for the Kurdish zone.

Strategic importance of Bayirbucak

The Red Mountain, about five kilometers [just over three miles] from the Turkish border, has the strategic importance of being the highest peak in the region.

If the regime forces obtain full control of Red Mountain, they can attack 10 villages located in the region, with artillery.

Acisu region is another target of the regime forces. Acisu, the Red Mountain and Hill 45 in the south, have vital importance for the Syrian regime.

In the southern line, after the Gimam village, the Assad regime has taken control of Zuveyk village. By advancing in the Burcu’l Kasab region, the Assad regime forces can break up the connection between Turkmen Mountain and Cebel Ekrad, and besiege the Turkmen Mountain.
 
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Can any members from Turkey respond to this? This is the former commander of NORAD speaking, his entire purpose for a long time was making these kinds of decsions (especially post 9/11) and is well versed in interception protocols and threat analysis. Who exactly gave the authority for the TuAF to shoot? This is the most pressing question that has remained unanswered, it doesn't matter if the plane was in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds, 40 seconds or 10 minuets. Who exactly deemed the threat to Turkey credible enough that it required the use of lethal force?

Please don't parrot this "we protected our sovereignty" line- it is entirely BS. Your own radar trace shows the plane was on a course to EXIT your airspace and was NEVER flying inwards into Turkish territory. The fact that the Russian plane was engaged whilst at when BVR makes it that bit more unpalatable.

What the TuAF did was entirely outside of NATO and all professional military interception guidlines and there needs to be some accountability. If it was the President then he needs to be made to answer what his agenda is, I find it hard to beleive a NATO member with supposedely world-class pilots would be so foolish.

If you are unable to understand after 1855 posts....i don't think, you can understand. :meeting:
 
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Has there been any proof that the plane was downed in Turkish territory or Syrian territory? Both countries are claiming different things.
 
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The Assad regime, supported by Hezbollah and Iranian forces and Russia by the air and sea, continues to attack the Bayirbucak region, close to Turkish border, inhabited by Turkmen.

The intensification of the attacks in the last period shows that Russia aims to give more power to President Bashar al-Assad before sitting at the negotiation table with the opposition forces, in accordance with the conclusion of the Vienna talks last week.
So Erdogan has scored an own goal here of monumental proportions through his own stupidity. I am honestly not sure if Erdogan had a plan that was absurdely ill-conceived or his "hard" posture entirely unfounded and counter-productive?
 
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Syria is in quasi state of war with Turkey, but Russia is not. Turkey is transferring armed people to Syria to overthrow its gov, no country in the world tolerates that, so you can't complain about Syria downing your jet.
Turkey at that time only raised concerns....support for FSA only came through after they shoot our aircraft out of nowhere.

But Russia has good relations with you (or had) and Erdogan tried to play the smartass role. Now we will see who stands to lose more from this, Turkey or Russia. I'll ask your opinion about this in few weeks.
Mate, blaming Erdoğan, PM, goverment of Turkey, opposition of Turkey, US, NATO....it's meaningless. As they are not giving permission to pilots, to shot or not.

I'm saying again. Rules of Engagement changed in Syrian border in 2012. And we declared it to whole world. Knowing our RoE Russians should stay away from our borders. They violated and they got shot. If tomorrow, they violate again , they will be shot again. Simple as that.
 
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Thing seems turning to worst from bad. Russia now threaten to attack anything and going to deploy guided missile cruiser near lstakia to shoot down anything threaten fighter escorting bomber.
 
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